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Harnesses
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Author:  Zook_Fan [ Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Harnesses
Well my zook is booked in to be complianced tomorrow but i want to clear something up first. If i get the harnesses complianced does that mean I can not return to the standard seat belts? Or can i then have either or? Does anyone here actually use harnesses on the road, as from the little bit of driving I have done with them I feel very safe but I dont like the lack of vision that they induce. If I dont get them complianced, is it legal to have them bolted in and not wearing them on the road? And if I do get them complianced, do I have to wear them on the road or can I wear the standard seat belts on the road and harnesses off?

Cheers
Author:  hutch [ Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Harnesses
Cool, what mods have you got? Let us know how it goes. Who do you see to get complianced? What does it cost all up?
cheers
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Harnesses
Just a local mechanic does them all for me. So far on one plate is the cage and seating capacity, and for tomorrow it will be for the race seats and maybe harnesses depending on the legalities of the harnesses. It cost $90 for the first mod on the plate and $45 for any others on the plate. So the first plate was $135 and tomorrow will be $90 or $135 again.
Author:  steve [ Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Harnesses
as far as i know, you don't need a plate for the harnesses and can have them bolted in all the time, but you can't wear them while driving on the road.

PS. keep the normal seatbelts in.
Author:  ball [ Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Harnesses
steve wrote:
as far as i know, you don't need a plate for the harnesses and can have them bolted in all the time, but you can't wear them while driving on the road.

PS. keep the normal seatbelts in.


That can't be right, QLD transport just about want a mod plate for a change of seat colour :)
Author:  Skinny_Man [ Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Harnesses
True what steve said, you can have harnesses but can't use them on the road.
Author:  Brett [ Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Harnesses
you can get them engineered for both (in the act. don't know about other states), my brother has his ticked off in his xc, they are only a 4 point harness. you need a harness that meets the seat belt safety standards as most of them don't.

then its just getting your mounting points ticked off.

if you don't have them engineered, have them in the car and are not wearing them you can't get booked. like nos, its allowed in the car just not hooked up ,you have to have the right stuff to carry it and the licence to transport.

he wears his normal seat belt most of the time as the harness are a pain in the ass for normal driving, he can't reach the radio with them on
Author:  Westie [ Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Harnesses
Harnesses Compliance when I had my licence if it was in the car and available. Must be to Aust Standards.
The removal of a Non Retractable Seat Belt replaced with an Inertia type MUST be Re Certified and that means ALL belts must be bought up to the new standard that incorporates Inertia Seat Belts.

1) Had to have all the anchorages certified
2) Harness had to be tagged as a legal restraint
3) Seat / Frame & Anchorages had to be approved to except that style of restraint.

Without digging the ADR book out and Code of Practice the above is what stood for the 10 years I was Compliancing under the LK6 Code
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Harnesses
Ok well I will have to work out a better way of rigging them up then. The normal seatbelts are back in and the harnesses are temporarily out of the way.My idea is, and it may be bad but it is an idea, to get longer bolts for the original seatbelt lower mounting points and run both the seatbelts and harnesses off the same points. As only one will be used at a time I cant really see it as a problem?
Author:  royce [ Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Harnesses
I reckon westie is right in that if they are in they need a plate cause thats the sort of dumb thing DOT does (though have heard many times you can have em jsut dont use em)

you also cant share the belt mounts either, if you want both you need to have seperate mouting points

dont worry youll get sick of the harnesses when you try and reverse or turn :)
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Harnesses
yeah that is why i decided against having them there all the time. Just taking it for a quick strap around the block I could tell that they would not be practical for the road.

For the seperate mounting points, that will be OK, I will just make up some plates to reinforce the floor bolt it down with high tensile bolts. That wont be too hard and I cant see how cops could do you for anything if you are wearing the normal seatbelts no matter what else is in the car. (seatbelt wise)
Author:  royce [ Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Harnesses
do your harnesses have quick release mounts on the ends? make some cams spec plates up and jsut clip em in when you need em

I guess its along the lines of sitting in teh car with the keys you can be done for drink driving, even if you are asleep in the back
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Harnesses
yeah they are quick release mounts for the bottom and rapped around the harness bar of the cage for the top mounts. I think I can make something up that can always be bolted to the ground and just clip the harness in. I will look into what CAMS is for the plates
Author:  Westie [ Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Harnesses
Ok if you have it compliance back to a 2 seater and fit the harness to the rear floor with good size plates they will not pull out.
BUT the biggest problem is the seat and the way it is designed wether or not it will except the impact of forces. meaning .... If belts are over the back to the floor and the forces are applied it may shatter the seat and splinters of materials steel F/Glass will penetrate the body.

Solution Fit a roll bar and fit belts to it, so the belts when under full impact do not apply mass pressure to the seat it self as they are now coming off at a lesser angle to the seat. Problem then is you need to get the Roll Cage certified to a standard along with the mounting point of the bar.

I know what you are thinking this is a load of shit but that is what we put up with for 10 years and it is so frustrating.

Double check everything before you go and do it and spend your money.

Always get 2 different opinions/quotes. and make sure you are talking the the Certified Person not his lackie
Author:  royce [ Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Harnesses
already has a complied cage Westie

I wouldnt even believe the compliance guy, talk to DOT tech services in brisbane
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Harnesses
I tried to talk to the DOT tech services in Brisbane on the phone, I was on hold from 3:30pm until 4:30pm at which time I was told all operators have gone home :(. yeah westie there is already a 6 point cage in there and it has already been complianced. When the guy was inspecting the cage I asked him about harnesses but no matter what I asked him, his only reply was "Yeah I can approve harnesses." Not really helpful but he gets the job done.

I dont think it is a load of shit. I have been dealing with that same shit for about 12 months with the 6 point cage. Apparently in June (now) they are going to go back through the list of compliancable items and the 6 point cage was up for heavy debate. It was looking likely that they were going to scrap the allowance on any cars that had not already been complied, which is why I had to get the cage done as soon as I could.
Author:  royce [ Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Harnesses
go find the right docs from DOT, 6 point cages rent legal it says any bars beside or in front of the driver arent allowed :)

I think there is another direct number you can ring, I will see if I can find it tomorrow, I know I never had trouble getting straight through on it :)
Author:  ball [ Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Harnesses
Seatbelt anchorages must comply with ADR 5.

See if you can find the ADR's online and follow the requirements. From memory they specify the size and grade of bolt you require. I am pretty sure that grade 8 and maybe even grade 5 bolts are a no no for seatbelt mounts. They also list the minimum size spreader plate that needs to be fitted.

I have a book somewhere that has the relevant specs in it but it is MIA at the moment.
Author:  Rapson [ Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Harnesses
Zook_Fan wrote:
yeah that is why i decided against having them there all the time. Just taking it for a quick strap around the block I could tell that they would not be practical for the road.

For the seperate mounting points, that will be OK, I will just make up some plates to reinforce the floor bolt it down with high tensile bolts. That wont be too hard and I cant see how cops could do you for anything if you are wearing the normal seatbelts no matter what else is in the car. (seatbelt wise)


You got that right Zook Fan, you only commit the offence if you are using the harness, there is no way I would be writting that ticket.

To cover your arse, next time you see DOT or a Traffic cop (not General Duties!) ask them and get there name and registered number, the lower the number the better!
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Harnesses
Yeah royce I know what the technical law is but it is complianced so I can show that I have atleast tried to have its safety inspected.

Ball, I will have a look around to find out what ADR says, but generally they are very similar if not a bit weaker than CAMS.

Rapson, I will ask the DOT as soon as I can. And hopefully it is only cops like you that pull me over :P
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