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What to do with my Oil Burning Zuk?
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Author:  colourclassic [ Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  What to do with my Oil Burning Zuk?
So I've got this 1992 JLX Vitara (G16B) which has begun to munch oil. I recently did an Adelaide - Melbourne and it used about 1L of 10w-40 on the 700km trip. I did an oil change and put in some 15w-50 but it's still using a lot of it around town.

It pumps out blue smoke on startup but that goes away after a few seconds, but apparently it's using it on cruise as well.

So where should I start looking? Will a leak down test show condition of oil control rings? Or should I look at valve stem seals?

Maybe it would be easier just to take the head off and get it reco'd and hopefully that will fix it? The car has 250,000kms.

Maybe I should track down a complete low km engine?

I'm looking for the cheapest solution!

Cheers
Author:  Scrawny [ Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What to do with my Oil Burning Zuk?
A leak down test will show where it's going. Sounds very much like valve stem seals. If you let it idle for a bit then give it a big stab of throttle does it blow lots of smoke?
Author:  MrRocky [ Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What to do with my Oil Burning Zuk?
Find a new low km motor
Author:  fordem [ Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What to do with my Oil Burning Zuk?
colourclassic wrote:
It pumps out blue smoke on startup but that goes away after a few seconds, but apparently it's using it on cruise as well.


This suggests valve seals, but a litre in 700kms suggests rings .

Scrawny wrote:
A leak down test will show where it's going


I'd love to hear how the leak down test shows you where the oil is getting into the combustion chambers.
Author:  Reubs [ Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What to do with my Oil Burning Zuk?
IMO that oil consumption whilst annoying isn't that bad. Is it worth a couple grand to fix? The Vitaras I've driven across the country both did about 1L/1000km.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What to do with my Oil Burning Zuk?
fordem wrote:

I'd love to hear how the leak down test shows you where the oil is getting into the combustion chambers.


By elimination? If it's not leaking down into the crank case, it's not rings, it's stem seals.
Author:  cairns27 [ Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What to do with my Oil Burning Zuk?
I'm with Rebus, just start reading those shiney inserts in the free newspapers, 20/50 @ $16 mine probably uses 1ltr 1000k'
if it gets too hungry, bum some sump oil off your local servo...coolant is more important.

bye
Author:  shep [ Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What to do with my Oil Burning Zuk?
Bash some of this into it. Have had success with it in the past.

http://www.glwholesalers.com.au/nulon-e ... leak-300ml
Author:  fordem [ Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What to do with my Oil Burning Zuk?
Gwagensteve wrote:
fordem wrote:

I'd love to hear how the leak down test shows you where the oil is getting into the combustion chambers.


By elimination? If it's not leaking down into the crank case, it's not rings, it's stem seals.


That's an assumption - leak down test shows where you're loosing compression, and you're assuming that the oil is following the same path ...

Perhaps I might be allowed the space to explain my interest ...

I have an engine (Mitsubishi 4G93 DOHC if you want the specifics, but I don't think it makes much of a difference) which has an intermittently high oil consumption issue - intermittently high in that some months it will go through a litre in less than a thousand kilometers, other months, half a litre in the same distance - blue smoke on start-up, blue smoke on move off it it's left to idle for any length of time - both symptoms of leaking valve guide seals. There is little or no noticeable smoke apart from what's described above - not even during sustained high speed (100~120 km/h) operation which is where worn rings will tend to show themselves.

Compression numbers are just above FSM guide lines for acceptable, with little change between wet & dry tests, suggesting that the rings/bore wear is in acceptable condition, and power is good - it will accelerate like the proverbial bat out of hell from a standstill or if it's in the right gear (it has an electronically shifted AW4 that can be made to shift "at will" if you hold your foot just right - I've never gotten the hang of it, but it responds well to the wife.)

EGR has been blocked (I acquired the vehicle this way), the PCV valve has been replaced and the oil separators in the cam covers have been cleaned - operating with the PCV valve disconnected from the intake does not change the pattern - the PCV valve was also disconnected when I acquired the vehicle, I'm not certain whether deliberately or through careless reassembly.

Local guru (this is a guy renown in the Caribbean motor sports world for his engine building abilities) says the volume of oil consumed is too high to be just the valve seals, he says it has to be the rings - when presented with the numbers he is suggesting that the oil rings are either worn or possibly stuck - says he has seen engines with the three part oil rings with the outer rails completely gone and good compression.

I have the valve seals, but getting to the seals to replace them requires a fairly extensive teardown which is one reason why they have not been replaced - I would hate have to pull the motor apart to that extent only to find that I have to go into it a second time if that doesn't fix the issue - if I could locate OS pistons & rings, I would pull it and do a full rebuild, but those have proven difficult to find.

I'm really looking for a way to reassure myself that there's a good chance that replacing the seals will fix the problem.

If the consumption was consistent it might help me decide - last week, consumption was negligible, in seven days - no drop in level on the dipstick; the week before, it took just less than half a litre - same time period, same sort of usage, similar distances.
Author:  alien [ Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What to do with my Oil Burning Zuk?
When mine did this (g16) it was stem seals. IMO, keep driving it until you're sick of it blowing smoke. (if the engine is otherwise in good order).
Author:  jono165 [ Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What to do with my Oil Burning Zuk?
Stem seals are pretty easy to do on the car with the cylinder head still on., you can either feed rope into the cylinder to use compressed air to hold the valve up. The seals are cheap too so its not too expensive of a job to do to see what difference it makes.

I have this tool and it makes it so easy to do it all on the car https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-36050-Keep ... 5ZDGQDXMHJ
Author:  colourclassic [ Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What to do with my Oil Burning Zuk?
jono165 wrote:
Stem seals are pretty easy to do on the car with the cylinder head still on., you can either feed rope into the cylinder to use compressed air to hold the valve up. The seals are cheap too so its not too expensive of a job to do to see what difference it makes.

I have this tool and it makes it so easy to do it all on the car https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-36050-Keep ... 5ZDGQDXMHJ


Cheers I'll have a look at that.

Just did a comp test and am getting 190 200 190 190 warm. Seems pretty good, although I know that's only part of the story and won't show oil ring condition.

I'm using 15w-50 and found it was harder starting in the morning than 10w-40. Hoping these engines can take such thick oil.

Are the ebay valve stem seals okay to use? 16 for $40 seems pretty cheap.

Here's a pic of the plugs which were new 5000km ago...

Look a bit lean but not sure?
Image
Author:  Scrawny [ Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What to do with my Oil Burning Zuk?
#1 and #4 look like they're burning oil
Author:  alien [ Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What to do with my Oil Burning Zuk?
re: oil - mines on 15w40, the g16 before that was on 20w50 with no issues.

This might help explain things (from the FSM)

Image
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