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M13a + Nitrous Oxide
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Author:  vet 180 [ Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  M13a + Nitrous Oxide

Ok who on here has run nitrous oxide on an M13a? I am a newbie to NOS in general and have never used it before.

Just investigating if its worth it. Looking at just a small shot of around 30hp to engage at around 2000rpm-5000rpm only on WOT. The auto has quite a tall first gear and that little bit of extra power at the lower rpms will help in the terrain I drive.

Will a dry shot be alright? Will the stock ecu adjust the fuel values accordingly? Are the stock injectors big enough for a 30hp shot? Anyone on here done it?

I am not keen on a big bottle sitting in the car. In fact due to no separate trunk, I would prefer the bottle out side of the car. Some of the motorcycle kits look interesting, if wrapped in some heat good insulation maybe its an option, but the temps do concern me. Otherwise it would be passenger footwell as this is a cool spot a lot of people recommend.

Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M13a + Nitrous Oxide

Do some more reading.

I've looked into it.

General concensus is you'll want a wet system. Most people heat the bottle.
Generally you don't bring spray in until 3k.

Steve.

Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M13a + Nitrous Oxide

Oh, and work out what your hard stall is in the converter. Nitrous builds big torque. Torque will kill the auto.

Author:  THE_DICTATOR [ Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M13a + Nitrous Oxide

I nearly put a 35 shot wet kit on mine but gave up on it as I wanted it to be reliable and couldn't work out how to retard the ignition when on the gas.

Putting the kit on a free falcon instead

Author:  THE_DICTATOR [ Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M13a + Nitrous Oxide

Losfer will know about it. Hopefully he sees the thread

Author:  vet 180 [ Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M13a + Nitrous Oxide

THE_DICTATOR wrote:
I nearly put a 35 shot wet kit on mine but gave up on it as I wanted it to be reliable and couldn't work out how to retard the ignition when on the gas.

Putting the kit on a free falcon instead


Interesting.

I will look into a 1.6/1.8 if I blow anything engine related. I would be more angry if a cooked the auto.

Author:  vet 180 [ Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M13a + Nitrous Oxide

Gwagensteve wrote:
Do some more reading.

I've looked into it.

General concensus is you'll want a wet system. Most people heat the bottle.
Generally you don't bring spray in until 3k.

Steve.


Does the ecu try to over compensate with the wet system? If not that will be the go.

I guess I can wait until 3k, but the earlier the better. I am aware that too early can lead to rods hanging out side the block.

Author:  shep [ Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M13a + Nitrous Oxide

My kit says not to trigger it until at least 3000rpm and only with full throttle.

Author:  losfer [ Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M13a + Nitrous Oxide

I dont know much about the dry kit only the basics . The dry kit only injects nitrous and you tee in a controller between the vacuum hose for the fuel pressure reg to bump up the fuel pressure to the injectors when you hit the nitrous.

I only ran a wet kit , it injects both fuel and nitrous through a single fogger nozzle. you have various combinations of jets to give you a different "shot" of nitrous. I ran a 75 shot combination of nozzles , i tried a 100 shot but the car did not like it at all.

Nitrous is not flammable because it is actually an oxidizing agent it is perfectly safe to have inside the car. The idea of nitrous is the more air and fuel you can get in the bigger the bang you can make on combustion stroke. Nitrous expands as it is heated . much the same as turbo you are trying to force as much air and fuel in but with nitrous you arent forcing it in but the expansion rate gives you better combustion .

you actually do need to heat the bottle for optimum performance , the bottle pressure needs to be about 1000 psi .You heat it when you want to use it , and freeze the bottle in your freezer before getting it filled so you can get more in. the bottle has a pressure relief disc so if it does become overpressurized it can "blow down".
I dont know about other racing but ANDRA states you must have a blow down tube that vents to outside the car .Having said that i never ran one and even went through scrutineering a few times when racing at the castrol edge jamboree and they never bothered , maybe none of them read the rules close enough. i did have to run diamond shaped yellow N2o stickers on the front and back of the car though. I never kept them on on the street though ! lol

And yes i wouldnt hit it under 3000 rpm or else:


sorry about the shitty video quality , the bang was actually really loud , the marshalls thought i blew the engine apart , but i drove home that night..

i had a 3 things that had to happen to trigger the nos . Arming switch , a full throttle switch on the accelerator , and a button on the steering wheel.

Its a lot of fun but it can be expensive , some weeks i went through 2 bottles of nos at $130 a refill.

If you want to do some more research jump on a forum called wizards of nos.

Author:  vet 180 [ Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M13a + Nitrous Oxide

losfer wrote:
I dont know much about the dry kit only the basics . The dry kit only injects nitrous and you tee in a controller between the vacuum hose for the fuel pressure reg to bump up the fuel pressure to the injectors when you hit the nitrous.

I only ran a wet kit , it injects both fuel and nitrous through a single fogger nozzle. you have various combinations of jets to give you a different "shot" of nitrous. I ran a 75 shot combination of nozzles , i tried a 100 shot but the car did not like it at all.

Nitrous is not flammable because it is actually an oxidizing agent it is perfectly safe to have inside the car. The idea of nitrous is the more air and fuel you can get in the bigger the bang you can make on combustion stroke. Nitrous expands as it is heated . much the same as turbo you are trying to force as much air and fuel in but with nitrous you arent forcing it in but the expansion rate gives you better combustion .

you actually do need to heat the bottle for optimum performance , the bottle pressure needs to be about 1000 psi .You heat it when you want to use it , and freeze the bottle in your freezer before getting it filled so you can get more in. the bottle has a pressure relief disc so if it does become overpressurized it can "blow down".
I dont know about other racing but ANDRA states you must have a blow down tube that vents to outside the car .Having said that i never ran one and even went through scrutineering a few times when racing at the castrol edge jamboree and they never bothered , maybe none of them read the rules close enough. i did have to run diamond shaped yellow N2o stickers on the front and back of the car though. I never kept them on on the street though ! lol

And yes i wouldnt hit it under 3000 rpm or else:


sorry about the shitty video quality , the bang was actually really loud , the marshalls thought i blew the engine apart , but i drove home that night..

i had a 3 things that had to happen to trigger the nos . Arming switch , a full throttle switch on the accelerator , and a button on the steering wheel.

Its a lot of fun but it can be expensive , some weeks i went through 2 bottles of nos at $130 a refill.

If you want to do some more research jump on a forum called wizards of nos.


Cheers great info. It's been your comments in the past that have me thinking of this.

So if on a swift the wet shot worked (on what I assume is the stock ecu) no reason it wont on the Jim.

3000rpm activation it is. Most sites say the same thing but with such a small shot I thought a little earlier might be ok as many people do use earlier to build boost on big turbos etc. Stronger engines though I guess.

If I go ahead it will be arming and full throttle switch only.

I seriously doubt I will need a bottle warmer over here. Google tells me I will harm babies if I mount in the engine bay, but others mention its alright. I guess it depends on how much pressure builds up.

I am worried about the cost, as in certain terrain (sand) I spend close to 50% of the time at full throttle at a guess. So say a 4 hour trip at 50% full throttle it could add up fast. On average I guess 4 times the fuel consumption compared to daily driving at the moment. So ad in the nos and it might not be the ideal solution for what I want. I guess I could just arm it when I need it. I get by at the moment, but sometime would like a little extra. the big killers are long but not steep situations where you have no up and down hill to build momentum and just bleed wheel speed slowly.

Thanks for the tip on wizards of NOS

Author:  losfer [ Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M13a + Nitrous Oxide

yes that was on factory ecu.

unlike turbo and supercharger its cheap and easy to install its the nitrous refills that kill you.

if you want a smaller setup to mount inside the car look up sneaky pete systems .

to give you an idea of nitrous use , with a 75 shot i used to get roughly 10-12 1/4 mile runs on a full bottle. so 4 kms ....

you could give it short bursts to get you in the rev range to maintain momentum. i would definately recommend a switch so you could activate it manually , not just at full throttle when armed.

Author:  losfer [ Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M13a + Nitrous Oxide

also a bottle warmer is still recommended , as the gas expels from the bottle it gets cold.

Author:  Gwagensteve [ Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: M13a + Nitrous Oxide

My understanding is ideally ignition needs to be retarded when on spray. Whilst for a short blat on a strip it night not be an issue, holding the car flat for longer periods is going to show up any tuning problems. Especially at high ambient temperatures.

Author:  vet 180 [ Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M13a + Nitrous Oxide

Gwagensteve wrote:
My understanding is ideally ignition needs to be retarded when on spray. Whilst for a short blat on a strip it night not be an issue, holding the car flat for longer periods is going to show up any tuning problems. Especially at high ambient temperatures.


And the high load situations concern me.

Author:  lgp29 [ Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: M13a + Nitrous Oxide

I ran a 100hp wet kit on a 360 Valiant. Retarded base timing about 2 degrees, a switch to arm
it and a micro switch on the throttle linkage set at wot. The instructions spec above 3k.
Also got a defect for having the bottle hooked up. Was scary fast. Bottle refills were a pita

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