[brucethart]

Hello,

This is my first post here. I've owned and enjoyed 3 other Suzukis in the past (Vitara, Sierra, and GV) and have recently bought a 2005 GV XL7 version.
I am having a problem which I am hoping someone might be able to help me with.
Last week we replaced the suspension - shocks and springs. EFS brand. I think it is supposed to be about a 30mm rise.
Back end went in fine. Except I think the shocks supplied might be too long?? - with the rear of the car totally off the ground and the struts are fully extended the hand brake lines are tight and the springs seemed pretty loose. This sound normal??

The front was pretty hard to do. There is probably an easier way but I couldn't find any info on the net before I started. In fact - don't do it the way we did it. We managed to break a drivers side CV. We used spring compressors but it wasn't enough. We didn't disconnect the drive shaft by taking out the circlip which I now think may have saved me my hassles. Instead after disconnecting the sway bar we forced the lower control arm further down with a crow bar. (oww, I am cringing as I write that) We got the spring in..

Then my troubles began. I noticed that the wheel on the driver's side didn't turn properly but seemed to catch in the gearbox. However, the Driver's side CV was well and truly broken - (the ring the holds the ball bearings in it). I thought this was the (only) issue. I changed the CV shaft today. However, I am still having problems. I can only move the wheel maybe 20 degrees back and forth. It seems to be engaging with the gearbox. The other side is not doing this. The car will drive but I am not driving it until I have sorted this out. Something is not right. Any ideas??

One other thing regarding the cv drive shaft - the bottom coupling seemed quite firm with no slop but the top connection had a lot of in/out movement. Is this normal?? There is not movement, now that it is installed in the car.

The car is in good condition over all - with about 150 000kms on the clock.

My wife is saying that I should have left this to the professionals. Maybe she was right...

[fordem]

brucethart wrote:

One other thing regarding the cv drive shaft - the bottom coupling seemed quite firm with no slop but the top connection had a lot of in/out movement. Is this normal?? There is not movement, now that it is installed in the car.

Bottom coupling? Top coupling??

The CV shaft will have an inner CV and an outer CV - the inner CV should have some "plunge" or in/out movement to allow for the change in length that occurs as the suspension cycles, the outer joint will not have this in/out movement, but will have more angular displacement to allow for the steering - if this is what you're referring to, then it's normal.

Regarding the installation of the springs - if there is ever a next time - pull the control arm pivot bolts and drop the arms out, you'll find it much easier. Incidentally, if you didn't loosen those bolts, go back and do it now - loosen every suspension pivot bolt that passes through a rubber bush in both the front & back suspension and then retighten to factory spec with the weight of the vehicle on the suspension - this allows the bushes to sit in an untwisted position with the vehicle at the new ride height, if you omit this step, you run the risk of premature failure of the bushes.

I don't want to guess at the problem with the front diff, your 2005 has the newer diff/free-wheel assembly which I am not familiar with.

[brucethart]

Thanks for the reply, Fordem.

Yes, I am referring to the inner cv - the one closest to the engine. So I am guessing the CV assembly is probably alright.
I read a thread you wrote about the air actuated 4WD system you have on your car. I am finding it hard to find any info about mine. I don't even know how the auto locking hub system works and where the actuator is. - is there one on each side or something central that locks both? Somehow it seems that the drivers side seems permanently locked in.

I am under a bit of pressure. We are meant to be going away on holidays in 3 days from now and this car is our only form of transport.. Hopefully I can find someone in town who is knows something about this car/ system.

Cheers.

[brucethart]

Ok, so I have continued my research on the net and learnt a bit more about how the system works. (but not specific to the later GVs/XL7s). This discussion helped me understand more but doesn't answer my problem: http://www.suzuki-forums.com/2g-1999-20 ... early.html

One clarification - when the car is moving there is always power going to the front tail shaft - even in 2wd? When 4H is selected the actuators just lock the front hubs? Yes?

Also, I think my car has an electronic (solenoid/motor??) actuator in the front diff - not air actuated. Correct??

Anyway, back to my car. When the front of the car is jacked up by lifting up the chassis the front right wheel will not turn. The 4WD is engaged - it is as if the actuator in the diff is jammed on. When I turn the wheel I notice that the 'power' is going through to the transfer case to back wheels. To me this indicates that the hub is locked. However the left wheel spins freely.

Now, to complicate further: If I jack the right wheel up by placing the jack directly under the lower control arm so the suspension doesn't extend I am then able to turn the wheel almost normally. It is a bit stiff (compared to the left wheel) and maybe still catches a little. (When I turn the ignition on and select 4H I can hear the actuators locking the hubs and then the wheel behaves like mentioned in the above paragraph until I select 2H again and it spins)

So, with the suspension compressed the wheel turns almost normally and with the suspension extended the auto hub locks in.
Strange. With the suspension extended it seems as if pressure in the driveshaft/diff is somehow locking the hub. Could this be possible?

Thanks.

[fordem]

When in 2H, the front tail shaft should have no power going to it and should not be turning, it should be disconnected in the transfer case and in the front differential, when in 4L or 4H, the transfer case should engage the front tail shaft, and the front axle freewheel mechanism (which is internal to the front differential) should engage to send that power to the front wheels - from the factory there are no freewheel hubs or actuators - there should be a splined disk locking the drive shaft to the wheel hub, if your car does not have that, it has been modified at some point in it's life.

No - your model does not use the air actuated free wheel mechanism, it is operated by an electric motor on the front of the pumpkin, and that's all I'm going to say, because I really don't know much more - I've never even seen that setup, there are no more than half a dozen or so XL-7s where I am - any further comments are what I expect to happen based on the older system.

With the front of the car off of the ground (both front wheels in the air) you should be able to turn either wheel with the vehicle in 2H or 4H with the ignition on or off (freewheel mechanism engaged or disengaged) - this is because the front differential is what is known as an open differential - the rotation should be smooth with no "catching" and depending on how the controls are set, the front tail shaft and opposite side wheel may rotate.

If the vehicle is in 2H you should be able to manually rotate the front tail shaft, if you select 4H, the front tail shaft should not rotate (because it is locked to the rear tail shaft, which will not turn because the rear wheels are on the ground) - in 4H with the ignition on and the freewheel mechanism engaged, when you rotate one front wheel, the other should rotate in the opposite direction - again the rotation should be smooth with no "catching"

By the way - that Suzuki-forums thread - I wouldn't take it as gospel, it's been repeatedly edited, merged & amended by one of the moderators (you can't see it but I can), making it very confusing, and it doesn't really apply to your model.

As far as your model goes, the system works like this ...

In 2H the transfer case does not feed the front tail shaft, in 4H & 4L it does, when 4H or 4L is selected, a switch on the transfer case closes letting the control module know that 4WD is selected, and the control module will then engage the front free-wheel mechanism - as I mentioned before, I have no documentation for the front free-wheel mechanism, so I'll stop there - the parts manual does call out a 4WD controller, but there is no part number listed, it may be a separate controller, or it may be integrated into the PCM (Powertrain Control Module)

[got_bar_work]

Sounda like u might have to much droop and might be binding up a cv if its hard to spin

[fordem]

Too much droop with what is supposedly a 30mm lift??

[got_bar_work]

Did u compare the lengths of the new to old shocks. They might have supplied the wrong ones

[brucethart]

Thanks for the further replies. I am learning a lot. I have been away for a week. The car is still not back on the road but some progress has been made.
I took my car to a mechanic. The front CV was broken/popped out - I must have done something wrong when I put it in. This caused it to jam up/ making it hard to spin.. I think - still not completely convinced but with I think it is spinning normally now.

Any way the mechanic had a very hard time removing the CV from the diff housing. Somehow the snap ring became jammed. Eventually he got it out using a slide hammer setup.
However, the snap ring has disappeared. It must have come off inside the diff housing. The diff oil was drained but the snap ring not found.

What can we do?
I have been given a couple options: Fill up with new oil and install new CV and drive around. - Hopefully snap ring will drop to the bottom..
or remove whole diff and pull apart to find to find the snap ring. - Mechanic hasn't worked on GVs before but expect this could take quite a while to do (=cost..)

any other options? Any tricks on trying to find/fish it out?

Thanks for any help.

[brucethart]

Alright. So I went in to the mechanics with a flexi magnet tool and managed to fish out about 2/3rds of the snap ring. Couldn't find the rest and hoping that it will drop down on its own.

So, the car was put back together - AND IT LOOKS LIKE I STILL HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM!!
Now I am being told that there is way too much camber and this is causing the CV too much stress. Ordering in some new camber Bolts to fix the camber issue. I hope this fixes the issue. There were camber bolts already installed in the top bolt on the strut but this wasn't enough.

Someone in this discussion asked before if there was too much droop. The kit is advertised as only 30mm. I didn't measure the before and after but I am beginning to think that I am getting a lot more than the proposed 30mm. Before the lift the front was lower than the back but now it looks very level - the rear is definitely higher than before so I am wondering how much more lift I got in the front - possibly quite a bit more than 30mm. I didn't measure the front struts but I did do a side by side comparison with both fully extended before I installed them and the new strut is, from memory, about 30mm longer than the old strut (I assume it is the original - I think it was marked KYB?? I can double check this if needed). Could a 30mm longer strut cause too much droop and cause the CV to bind up?

Thanks for any thoughts on this.

Cheers,
Bruce.

[NomadGV03]

How did you go with this issue? Is it resolved? If not, do you have pics?

[Gwagensteve]

30mm of lift will not cause these issues and won't require two camber bolts to align.

[got_bar_work]

Bent towers maybe.

[brucethart]

double post

[brucethart]

I got a new set of camber bolts put in. ONly one set was used in the top hole. So the front camber is now good - atleast it looks right now. I picked up the car yesterday. The mechanic told me that the binding issue was all fixed but said that he thinks that the front wheel bearing is worn out. I paid up and took the car out - it had been there for 3 weeks and I just wanted to get it back. I drove it a couple hundred metres and then drove directly to another mechanic. The problem I was having was definitely not fixed. The car was making ticking noises - especially when turning and had developed a bad shudder! It was awful, anything above 30km/h. Not impressed at all. I paid a lot of money for nothing!

Anyway, dropped it off at a Suzuki mechanic this time. The front bearings are fine. They pulled out the CV shaft today and compared it to the orginal CV shaft. It looks like the 'new' one is too long - I can't remember exactly but somewhere between 15 and 20mm to long!! This is what they expect is causing all the problems. On paper the (repco) CV that I bought is the correct one. However it is possible that Suzuki changed the CVs on the latter models. I think the diff was changed in the 2003 or 4 to either a steel or alloy one - is this correct. Maybe this also affected the length of the CV shaft?? The mechanic is trying to source a second hand shaft and is going to compare the lengths. HAS ANYONE EVER HEARD OF LATER MODEL GEN2s USING DIFFERENT CV SHAFT LENGTHS?????

I will keep you updated.

[NomadGV03]

I wouldn't mind the longer Cv's!

[Chop]

Pretty sure you can't buy new aftermarket cv's for SQ series at all. Its genuine only or rebuilt ones. That my understanding.
So you probably got sold something that doesn't match.

[NomadGV03]

I got my 26 spline ones from 4wdproducts

[brucethart]

Anyone got a length of a normal CV shaft (front right) that I could use as a point of reference?

[brucethart]

Just an update:
I got my car back a couple days ago - All fixed!!! I am very happy.

It turns out the CV shaft that was put in was too long as mentioned. The mechanic tried to source a second hand CV - he found one which matched the same length as the original CV but it wasn't in very good condition. We got one made up in Perth to suit my car.
So either my car (2005 model) runs a shorter CV than other GVs out there or else Repco CVs are the incorrect length.

[NomadGV03]

Good to hear mate! Hard to find a trustworthy mechanic these days.