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| GV Hesitation when wet https://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=54317 |
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| Author: | 30ONA [ Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | GV Hesitation when wet |
So If my car has been parked in the rain or I wash it then try to drive it shortly after (straight away), it hesitates badly for about 2 min. It revs fine at idle but under load it's hopeless. Today I washed the car at a servo. When I drove off in the car park it was fine. When I tried to pull out into the traffic it pretty much died completely but was still running. Sill running but it was like the more throttle I gave it the worse it got, perhaps just the small amount of momentum I had was keeping the car running (manual). I throttled right down then up really slowly, it lurched and moved off struggling. Not missing but like it was being chocked and couldn't gain at the normal speed. As I accelerated, as soon as I hit 3500rpm the thing took off like a rocket. Well as much as a J20 can feel like a rocket. I slowed down to 2500rpm and speed up a few times and each time as soon as I got to 3500 it came good with a surge of power after about 2 min of driving all is fine. When I got home 10 min later I popped the bonnet. No water in the air box. A little water was running from the corners of the windscreen cowl onto the wheel arch and then forward. Any ideas. It's quite dangerous when you pull out expecting the car to go and it just stops in the middle of an intersection. |
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| Author: | fordem [ Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
If I recall correctly, you have the 2.0 four cylinder, pull the coil packs, replace the probes/lances. |
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| Author: | 30ONA [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
Coil packs and probes are less than 10000ks old |
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| Author: | 30ONA [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
I still have the oem one, 175000ks. Should I try them. Why would they be effected if there is no water on them? |
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| Author: | fordem [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
They wouldn't/shouldn't, but, the high voltage side of the ignition system is more often than not the source of moisture related misfires. |
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| Author: | 30ONA [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
I'm wondering what is happening in the engine at 3500rpm. This could help diagnose. I agree it's probably an ignition problem. Could it be a power source problem? Alternator or a main earth getting damp? Does the alternator/regulator jump up or down in voltage output at 3500? |
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| Author: | fordem [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
The alternator/regulator doesn't know or care what rpm the engine is turning - the alternator will produce as much current as it can, limited by the regulator which is monitoring voltage. The regulator varies the alternator excitation current to keep the system voltage within defined limits. A "main earth" getting damp might actually be a good thing - ideally the grounds should be clean & tight - if they are not current flow is reduced and voltage drops increase - any moisture might improve conduction. A faulty "main earth" will more often than not show up as a slow crank because that is when the current flow is greatest. |
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| Author: | fordem [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
Question - what makes you say there is no water on the coil packs/probes? I don't see you mention checking them. I have two J20a engine Grand Vitaras, one is a 98, the other is an 05 - I have discovered that I can wash the engine on the 98 (garden hose only, no pressure washer) and simply start it and drive, the 05 only has to see the hose and it will refuse to start, and when started, it will run with no load and will produce barely enough power to get the vehicle moving - the coil packs HAVE to be removed and dried before the car can be driven. Pull the coil packs and examine them - separate the probes from the coil itself and make sure the contacts are clean, any traces of white powdery stuff is an indication of moisture - reassemble using dielectric grease to keep the moisture out. |
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| Author: | atari4x4 [ Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
^^^^ this |
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| Author: | 30ONA [ Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
Well I did all the above. Today I went off-road and after a deep puddle I got the symptoms.this time though I could see where the water was because it was muddy. There was a splash on the alternator. Symptoms didn't last more than 1min. Well need to work out a way to shield it, or get some oem guards |
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| Author: | Gwagensteve [ Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
A splash on the alternator has nothing to do with your problem. It's the ignition of the car that's getting wet. |
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| Author: | Gwagensteve [ Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
Alternators function perfectly when submerged (in water. They don't like mud) |
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| Author: | fordem [ Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
There's no OEM alternator guard, and like Steve says, the alternators work fine when wet - unless the insulation has started to fail (which I have had happen, although not on a GV yet) it usually shows up as the charge light coming on and reduced output. |
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| Author: | 30ONA [ Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
Well if not the alternator what? I've removed all coils and greased the probes and the electrical connectors to the coils |
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| Author: | 30ONA [ Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
What I mean with guards is my car has none. None in the wheel arches or under the engine. Just a sump guard. |
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| Author: | Gwagensteve [ Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
Are you getting a check engine light when it hesitates? |
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| Author: | Gwagensteve [ Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
Did you use dielectric grease? |
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| Author: | 30ONA [ Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
No engine light |
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| Author: | 30ONA [ Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
Is it possible the crank or cam position sensor(s) might be playing up? I'm not sure where the crank one is but the cam one is very close to the windscreen where water could get in. But that's not consistent with the puddle causing the issue. Could is be the crank sensor? Edit. Hope not crank sensor. Just saw in the manual, remove transmittion! |
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| Author: | MrRocky [ Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
Were coilpacks genuine items ? Every aftermarket coilpack ive used for suzukis have been well below par and failed within months |
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| Author: | 30ONA [ Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
MrRocky wrote: Were coilpacks genuine items ? Every aftermarket coilpack ive used for suzukis have been well below par and failed within months No. I don't have$600 for Suzuki coil packs. How many brands have you tried. Also it's an intermittent issue. |
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| Author: | fordem [ Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
Why did you replace the coil packs - if you have the originals and they are usable - refit them with new probes/lances - if I recall correctly the lances I'm using are NGKs and they have been problem free. |
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| Author: | suzukitas [ Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
The coil packs have a philips head screw that the spring gets contact from, these often get surface corrosion on them, especially in aftermarket coil packs, you can remove the screw and clean surface of it for a temp fix. |
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| Author: | 30ONA [ Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
In my mind all the cylinders are being effected. It's not missing like a bad plug or pack. It's something effecting the whole ignition system. |
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| Author: | MrRocky [ Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
Borrow a set of another car that you know to be good so you can rule out the coilpacks 100% |
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| Author: | fordem [ Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
30ONA wrote: Is it possible the crank or cam position sensor(s) might be playing up? I'm not sure where the crank one is but the cam one is very close to the windscreen where water could get in. But that's not consistent with the puddle causing the issue. Could is be the crank sensor? Edit. Hope not crank sensor. Just saw in the manual, remove transmittion! Not all of the 2.0 GVs were fitted with crank sensors, and it is my understanding that those fitted with crank sensors only use them for misfire detection and don't need the crank sensors to run, as in, they will run just fine without them, although they will set a check engine light. |
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| Author: | 30ONA [ Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
Considering my new coil packs are under warranty and it is not easy to replicate the issue on command, who can test them on an occiloscope? Brisbane based. |
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| Author: | 30ONA [ Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
I went through a water crossing about 500mm deep yesterday and the miss was terrible. There was quite a bit off water splashed about from the fan. The car would barely accelerate. Revved fine, but letting there clutch out the car barely fired. Doing some research I've seen some people paint the coil pack with crc urethane which can waterproof them and seal ANY micro cracks. Has anyone tried this. I assume you remove the packs, take off the stalks and mask the electrical connectors. So I'm going to give it a try. I can't have this issue as I'm taking part in a rally where there is bound to be some water. |
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| Author: | 30ONA [ Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
Well believe it or not the problem seems to have gone. Coincided with a new TPS. Also my fuel economy has gone from 12-13l/100 to 10-11. |
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| Author: | Angus Martin [ Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GV Hesitation when wet |
A bit late perhaps, but i was going to say it sounds like a few issues I've had, IAC, which is where the TPS is so it could have been that Coilpacks, in my experience cheap coilpacks off ebay work fine. Water in fuel tank by as it's not ongoing it's probably not that. |
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