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Easy way to find a break/short in an electrical wire
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Author:  Gussyb [ Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Easy way to find a break/short in an electrical wire
Hi,
Does anybody know an easy way to find an electrical fault such as a shorting wire or a broken wire without having to dig around under the chassis.
This might sound like a stupid question but the wiring in my zook is so botched you can’t tell what does what and why some wires have been cut and left there but have another wire doing the same job.
Thanks
Gus
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Easy way to find a break/short in an electrical wire
You’re going to have to roll up the sleeves and get under there- there’s no magic solution. Even if you found a complete, correct, loom excellent condition, it’s a huge job to swap a loom. It’s very dirty, fiddly and time consuming to swap- the dash has to come out, which means you’ll be struggling with heater controls etc.

Get a wiring diagram so you know what colour the wires should be. This makes it much easier as you know what should go where. I’m deep into tidying up the wiring in my car right now (efi/auto vitara loom in an early 1.0 litre ute) I wired it 9 years ago I fairly quickly so there’s lots of work to do, and it’s just slow work. It’s quite enjoyable though if you realise it’s slow and get into the groove. It’s quite meditative, but you have to be patient.
Author:  Fatzook [ Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Easy way to find a break/short in an electrical wire
Gwagensteve wrote:
It’s quite enjoyable though if you realise it’s slow and get into the groove. It’s quite meditative, but you have to be patient.


You're unwell in the head Steve.
Author:  HarryHoudini [ Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Easy way to find a break/short in an electrical wire
Gussyb wrote:
Hi,
Does anybody know an easy way to find an electrical fault such as a shorting wire or a broken wire without having to dig around under the chassis.
This might sound like a stupid question but the wiring in my zook is so botched you can’t tell what does what and why some wires have been cut and left there but have another wire doing the same job.
Thanks
Gus


No short cuts,you just have to put the time in.
1980/90 Suzuki's are renowed for breaks in the wiring looms,local mechanic doesn't do electrical work on Sierra's/Vitara's from that era,he used to send them to a Auto Electrician but he now doesn't work on them,too time consuming.

On our Coily we had a break in the brake light wire somewhere,just ran a new wire from the back section,that worked, to the fuse block,similar drama with the Reverse lights,no power to the gearbox switch,just ran a new lead from a spare terminal in the engine bay.
Author:  fordem [ Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Easy way to find a break/short in an electrical wire
Have you ever heard of a telecom technician's tone tool, also known as a fox & hound?

Now - let me be honest - I have not tested this, so you're looking at a theory - but a fox & hound is a tool used to locate a "pair (of wires) in a bundle - it's an audio tone generator (the fox) and an amplifier with an inductive pickup (the hound).

Image

In normal usage you connect the fox to the wire at one end, and then use the hound to probe the wires at the other end and when you hear the tome, you have the right pair. In theory, you can connect the fox to the wire and then run the hound along the harness until you lose the tone, and that point will be the approximate location of the break.

You will still have to strip out trim panels and what have you to be able to follow the harness, but it might save you some time locating the break - and I will tell you - the last time I needed to locate an intermittent wiring problem, I was stripping the panelling out to run a fresh wire, as HarryHoudini is suggesting, and in the process discovered that the manuals I has didn't quite match the vehicle - there was an undocumented splice - a single wire through a six cavity connector.

By the way Gus, a shorting wire and a broken wire are VERY different things.
Author:  Gussyb [ Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Easy way to find a break/short in an electrical wire
fordem wrote:
By the way Gus, a shorting wire and a broken wire are VERY different things.


yea I know but thanks for the tip, i'll try to find one.
Author:  pezz [ Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Easy way to find a break/short in an electrical wire
A power probe is a very handy tool that helps speed up the troubleshooting and testing side of the job
Author:  missmyljdaze [ Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Easy way to find a break/short in an electrical wire
HarryHoudini wrote:
1980/90 Suzuki's are renowned for breaks in the wiring looms


Be thankful you don't have a mid 1990's Mercedes!!

I have helped re-wire two of these as the insulation on the wires crumbles away to nothing.

[Having dodgy colour vision relegated me to wrapping the home made harnesses and stuffing it into the engine bays and under the dashes]

Apparently there was some "euro-greenie" law introduced which required cars to have a higher percentage of environmentally friendly materials.
Mercedes chose to use hippy approved insulation, which broke down much quicker than the traditional "environmental vandal" insulation.

I think they messed up a bit - a burning merc isn't exactly capturing carbon....
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Easy way to find a break/short in an electrical wire
missmyljdaze wrote:
HarryHoudini wrote:
1980/90 Suzuki's are renowned for breaks in the wiring looms


Be thankful you don't have a mid 1990's Mercedes!!

I have helped re-wire two of these as the insulation on the wires crumbles away to nothing.

[Having dodgy colour vision relegated me to wrapping the home made harnesses and stuffing it into the engine bays and under the dashes]

Apparently there was some "euro-greenie" law introduced which required cars to have a higher percentage of environmentally friendly materials.
Mercedes chose to use hippy approved insulation, which broke down much quicker than the traditional "environmental vandal" insulation.

I think they messed up a bit - a burning merc isn't exactly capturing carbon....


I was going to say the same thing. I think Suzuki looms are fantastically reliable compared to brittle euro wiring. The loom in my car is 29 years old (91 vitara) and I'm working on it now and the wiring is supple and it's had no wiring failures associated the factory loom despite the fact it's been jammed into a Sierra.
Author:  HarryHoudini [ Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Easy way to find a break/short in an electrical wire
Gwagensteve wrote:

I was going to say the same thing. I think Suzuki looms are fantastically reliable compared to brittle euro wiring. The loom in my car is 29 years old (91 vitara) and I'm working on it now and the wiring is supple and it's had no wiring failures associated the factory loom despite the fact it's been jammed into a Sierra.


I think you have been lucky Steve,compared to other Jap cars such as Toyota/Datsun/Nissan Suzie wiring can be a nightmare so obviously not coming from the same Jap. supplier back then.
Oz. cars,Holden/Falcon etc., from that era,1980/90's rarely have a problem,our local mechanic,Lismore NSW, would see 3 or 4 Suzie's a year with wiring problems which is a lot for a small, relatively,Town,many had been driven on the Beaches up here,Lennox Head,South Ballina, Evans Head etc.so don't know if salt is contributer.
Author:  sideways [ Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Easy way to find a break/short in an electrical wire
If you've got a broken/rubbed through wire that's blowing the fuse then a resettable circuit breaker like one of these is a fantastic tool.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/10A-AMP-12V ... SwtfhYnIC0

If you're looking for a fault on a particular circuit, in order I'd look at.
1. Wiring modifications anyone has made. Virtually no one does wiring at an OEM quality and pretty much all aftermarket wiring is done at the absolute minimum quality.
2. Accident damage, even if previously repaired. I've repaired a lot of headlight/indicator/park looms.
3. If you're looking for problems with the factory loom itself then look for burnt/corroded connectors in plugs, wires rubbed on sharp edges of panels and above all, poor/dirty/burned earths. Get yourself a wiring diagram, make sure it's for your car and spend the time to understand it.

IMO you really can't do electrical work without a multimeter. If you're chasing a no power problem then the continuity function is invaluable.

missmyljdaze wrote:
Be thankful you don't have a mid 1990's Mercedes!!


On that subject last week I was called out to fix an ML270 that was blowing indicator fuses, I was fearing the loom rot but I found the loom had rubbed through on a sharp edge of a panel inside the rear quarter panel. From the factory the loom was pulled tight over this sharp edge, I thought that was pretty poor form given the quality of design in the rest of the car, still it's got 540'000kms on it!

Personally, I think suzuki looms are great quality I can't think if a single problem I've had with the wiring itself. I've had about 10 different Suzukis over about 10 years. LJ looms are still flexible and they're 40+ years old now.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Easy way to find a break/short in an electrical wire
HarryHoudini wrote:
Gwagensteve wrote:

I was going to say the same thing. I think Suzuki looms are fantastically reliable compared to brittle euro wiring. The loom in my car is 29 years old (91 vitara) and I'm working on it now and the wiring is supple and it's had no wiring failures associated the factory loom despite the fact it's been jammed into a Sierra.


I think you have been lucky Steve,compared to other Jap cars such as Toyota/Datsun/Nissan Suzie wiring can be a nightmare so obviously not coming from the same Jap. supplier back then.
Oz. cars,Holden/Falcon etc., from that era,1980/90's rarely have a problem,our local mechanic,Lismore NSW, would see 3 or 4 Suzie's a year with wiring problems which is a lot for a small, relativey,Town,many had been driven on the Beaches up here,Lennox Head,South Ballina, Evans Head etc.so don't know if salt is contributer.


I wonder how many of those falcons and commodores have had accessories hacked into them, driven up and down the beach, someone's deleted the fusible link and otherwise messed around and then assumed they could fix it because it was a "cheap suzuki" and they didn't want to pay a mechanic and now they're full of scotch locks and tape like GussyB is describing.

Along with 25 years working on Suzukis, I have plenty of experience with non Suzukis. I think Suzuki wiring is fantastically reliable if it's left alone the faults are almost always user generated.

My Holden (VF) and Ford (FG) both have or had electrical quirks. Obviously, my Land Rover ('93) does but you'd expect that.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Easy way to find a break/short in an electrical wire
The end result though is there's no alternative to having a multimeter and knowing how to use it, and working through damage and modifications to the loom. You have to get in/around the loom and inspect and test. If you're comfortable reading a wiring diagram that will go a long way, but lighting circuits are pretty easy.
Author:  USMC5811 [ Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Easy way to find a break/short in an electrical wire
Old mechanic used to just put a set screw in place of fuse then look for smoke.
Author:  missmyljdaze [ Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Easy way to find a break/short in an electrical wire
USMC5811 wrote:
Old mechanic used to just put a set screw in place of fuse then look for smoke.



Is there a metric version of this - or do we need a "Lucas to Zook" adaptor?
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