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Circlips found in sump
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Author:  Spooky [ Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Circlips found in sump
Gidday people. Just bought myself an Ebay bargain. lol A 90 mod Sierra needing rego and mod plating. I was fixing a sump gasket leak the other day and found two circlips about the size of a 5c piece sitting in the bottom of the sump. All I know is the engine has a 1.6L block with 1.3L head and Vitara carby. It was recond and modified by Suziworld in 1992 but I'm not sure of the mileage. Previous owner swears it has done no more than 2000 kms. Speedo shows 90,000kms. Question is are the circlips from the piston gudgeon pins and if so do you need to remove head to reinstall clips?
Author:  joeblow [ Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
gudgeon pins from the con rods?
Author:  Spooky [ Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
I have found that the 1.3L engines don't use retaining circlips as they press fit their gudgeon pins into the piston. I am not sure if the gudgeon pins use press fit or retaining circlips in the 1.6L engine.
Author:  11_evl [ Sat Aug 01, 2009 11:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
8v 1600s are press on and
later 16v 1600s are the circlip type.

from my experience
Author:  Spooky [ Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
Thanks 11_evl but the engine has a 1.3L head so I'm still at a loss as to what block is fitted.

The engine number is G16B-104***. Is there a list anywhere that tells you year of manufacture or what engine number was fitted to which car? I really don't want to strip the engine unless absolutely necessary.
Author:  Damo [ Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
Spooky wrote:
Thanks 11_evl but the engine has a 1.3L head so I'm still at a loss as to what block is fitted.

The engine number is G16B-104***. Is there a list anywhere that tells you year of manufacture or what engine number was fitted to which car? I really don't want to strip the engine unless absolutely necessary.


By that engine number it's a Vitara block. The compliance plate on the firewall will tell you the original engine number for your vehicle, and i'm telling you now they wont match up.

Can you post a pic of the circlips?
Author:  Spooky [ Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
Will post some pictures shortly.
Author:  Spooky [ Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
Hopefully someone can identify these circlips.

Image
Author:  Chop [ Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
I was wondering where those got too! :lol:

Chop
Author:  Chop [ Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
On a serious note, they look like uni joint circlips? 8O

Chop
Author:  Damo [ Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
Chop wrote:
On a serious note, they look like uni joint circlips? 8O

Chop


They'd have to be too small for that I think.

I can't think of what they'd be from.
Author:  want33s [ Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
They look like gudgeon clips to me.. Worrying part is if they are, how much damage did they do to the bores on their way past the piston skirt.

If I found them in my sump I'd have the head off and pistons out already.
Author:  shep [ Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
i wouldn't worry about it if it was my motor. i would just thrash it while looking
for another motor as the damage has already been done.
Author:  Scrawny [ Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
Surely they would be a bit more scarred up if they were gudgeon clips?? I'd be doing what Shep suggested :lol:
Author:  atari4x4 [ Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
they a clearly spare circlips, they keep them in the sump to stop them from rusting :?
Author:  want33s [ Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
Nambour auto wreckers has a G16B in a 92-93 5 door Vit.
I bought the starter out of it this morning.
Author:  Spooky [ Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
Ok Chop, you can have them back anytime and as you can see there is no rust on them. :lol:

Haven't had a chance to check bores yet but hopefully they're okay and will just have to refit new circlips. If not, then full rebuild here I come. :( Bugger
Author:  Saam [ Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
your engine is a very elaborate circlip manufacturing machine, you just have to harvest them every oil change.
Author:  losfer [ Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
very interesting , the only other thing that uses a circlip like that is the pressure relief valve in the oil pump , but only 1 , and if you lost that , well .. you would have no oil presure.
i shall compare a gudgeon pin circlip and a relief valve circlip against a 5cent piece tomorrow and report my findings..

as someone else said if they were gudgeon pin clips , you would expect to see them a little munched by the time they found their way miraculously past the piston skirt.
Author:  Spooky [ Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
Well ripped the sump back off and had a good look at the bores. No damage or wear and all the piston pins are where they're suppose to be. Email from Suziworld confirmed that the Circlips should be chewed up if they had come out of the piston so I sure these 2 circlips were leftovers from the previous engine build.

What does everybody use on their sumps, Cork gasket or Silicon Sealant?
Author:  Shelby [ Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
In my opinion i would use a cork gasket and apply Permatex aviation form-a-gasket sealant to both sides of the gasket and the surfaces it touches.
Its a brown colour liquid and stays tacky for a while but sets after a good 30mins. Its all we use at work on engines other then exhaust and intake components, i think its about $15 or so at supercheap, not all will stock it and comes in a 59mL bottle unless they stock the big bottles.
Author:  joshNZ [ Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
you can also use bluemax or grey max with no gasket with no probs
Author:  Scrawny [ Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
Yeah, I just use goo with no cork gasket
Author:  weaves [ Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
i usually have red RTV gasket maker sitting around.

but any loctite 515, bluemax 589, 3j aviation gasket maker, coppermax. greymax or blackmax would work.

if your using silastic/silicon like you would out of a caulking gun, make sure its not acidic cure.

weaves
Author:  2stroker [ Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
Sierra don't come with cork gaskets do they
Author:  shep [ Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
2stroker wrote:
Sierra don't come with cork gaskets do they


yep. and they cost $6 from my local parts shop. :wink:
Author:  Spooky [ Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
I fitted a new cork gasket but broke it removing the sump to check the bores. Rang the local Suzuki dealer and they dont list the gasket as a spare any more and told me to just use sealant. I'm a little old school and believe that cork gaskets and gasket goo seal a little better than just straight sealant.

I tried Loctite's Gasket Sealant 2. It's non hardening and sticks like sh#t to a blanket. It is hard to clean off but appeared to seal well.
Author:  Spooky [ Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
Damn, spoke too soon. :oops: Talked to Losfer today and found that the pistons fitted to my engine don't have the little lip on the skirt. It is possible for these Circlips to fall out. See Photo

Image

More bad news is with a better torch & mirror and turning myself into a pretzel I found some rather deep scoring on one of the bores. :cry:
Author:  losfer [ Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
next time you come in , i'll take you out the back and show you absolutely hundreds of pistons that have the little bit of skirt that would make it impossible for the circlip to fall out ... it just happens the piston you picked up was a special high compression piston from a cultus gti.

regardless of that , yes it appears that the circlips could of possibly come from one of your pistons , if not more if they were all incorrectly installed.

its not that hard to pull the head and pop the pistons out and see what the problem is .. im guessing if you pull the head and the bores are scored it will be rebuild time anyway.

on a side note , i absolutely hate cork gaskets , i prefer a high temp rtv silicone myself , i am that confident , that i would use a silicone , let it cure , then remove all the bolts and drive around .

most suzukis left the factory with silicone (3 bond) as a sump gasket. when you go to remove the sump from the engine it takes quite some force.

the only time i will ever use a cork gasket is in a "in car situation" where theres a possibility of scraping some of the silicon on something else and compromising the seal , in this case i will use a cork gasket that is glued to the sump using contact adhesive , you should never use a silicon sealant with a cork gasket.

if you ever want to pop in for some no bullshit advice , or a chat , come and see me.
Author:  Spooky [ Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circlips found in sump
Thanks Losfer, I am on a steep learning curve with Suzuki's so will drop in from time to time for advice. I'm going to reinstal the sump to get it roadworthy and registered then check for any other drive train problems before an engine rebuild. Misses wants her garage back.
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