[mike.knew]

Hi All,

I recently purchased a 1998 J20A SWB Vitara with 177,000 kms on it. I asked a local parts shop to get a price for a timing chain kit as I don't know when it was last changed but the shop said that it is not a belt but a timing chain and chains do not need to be replaced until they chatter against the block and simply don't snap like belts they stretch. Is this correct? I hope it is as a I have a 180SX with a SR20 that also has just come on 100,000 kms and I was going to tackel that one after the vitara but if chains do not need to be replaced .... sweet

My girlfriend has a 1996 Baleno GTX with the J18 motor that has 130,000 kms on it - I am not sure if this motor is belt of chain driven as I am having problems finding aworkshop manual for this model, so if anyone know where to find a workshop manual and if anyone knows if it is belt or chain driven it would be appreciated.

All three cars have no issues, it is just a preventative measure I am looking at.

Cheers
Mike

[BlueSuzy]

Chains last longer kms but they do stretch and snap!

If the chain is grinding on the block, that means your chain is stretched and timing will be out slightly. And fook me if its grinding on your block. WTF! Thats no fooking good is it!!

Find a service manual/info

Belts on euro car have service interval for belt every 80,000. Japs like theres done every 100,000. Chains last longer.

I had a 98 civic that the belt was done on 160,000. (60,000kms over service) Belt looked fine. But i thrashed it

Mate had a bombo (pregnant barina combo) Belt snapped at 80,000!! 100,000 service intervals!

I have no idea how long chains last. Never had a car with chains.

Can you take off the cam cover easily? I would just check it atm. Grab 2 links and push and pull them together, also move them side to side in opposite directions. There should be no play at all in the pins in the chain with a new chain.

Hope that gives you some direction.

[mike.knew]

Thanks BlueSuzy for your response.

Yeah I thought wait 'til their is an issue and then fix was a bit rough ... lol.

I had a look through the workshop manual and it does indeed say replace the camshaft timing belt (G16 engine only) every 100,000kms. No reference to the J20 though so I am guessing it doesn't need to be done.

I will take your advice and take the cam cover off and inspect though. I have attached the maintenance schedule incase others find it usefull.

Is their any restrictions in putting items in the downloads section of this forumn?

[TheOtherLeft]

Just make sure you use the correct weight oil. I use 5W30 synth which is a bit of overkill. I used to use 10W40 semi-synth. I only use 5W30 when it's on special and is the same price as the 10W40.

The J20A timing chain and followers/guides are very sensitive to the right type of oil. If you use too heavy oil (15W etc) the guides don't get lubricated and fail, which then leads to chain failure and no more engine.

AFAIK the chain should last the life of the car.

[mike.knew]

TheOtherLeft wrote:

Just make sure you use the correct weight oil. I use 5W30 synth which is a bit of overkill. I used to use 10W40 semi-synth. I only use 5W30 when it's on special and is the same price as the 10W40.

The J20A timing chain and followers/guides are very sensitive to the right type of oil. If you use too heavy oil (15W etc) the guides don't get lubricated and fail, which then leads to chain failure and no more engine.

AFAIK the chain should last the life of the car.

Thanks TheOtherLeft that puts me at ease. I have 5 liters of 10W30 which I plan to change this weekend with the filter allong with the main belt for the auxilaries (air con, alternatator, water pump and power steering I think) as it looks a little rough. The belt was $40 incase anyone else is interested.

[felix]

I also looked up the service info last week on boyce auto data as I'm about to do a GTX conversion into my vitara. I am pretty certain that both the 2 litre and 1.8 do not need to have the chains replaced at a certain service interval. It is a pretty substantial job to do it as there are two chains, one which drives the oil pump and the other which does the cams.

You have to remove the sump and everything else off the front of the motor to do it. The only thing you'd have to worry about is if the wrong oil was used or it had been neglected and sludged up. Then the chain tensioner may have been damaged, but usually this doesn't really occur so I wouldn't worry too much.

My BMW has gone 220,000kms without the head ever been off or the chains, tensioners etc been replaced. It is still going strong! Our Pajero (early 4 banger) had done about 170,000kms and we never replaced the timing chain. Just some food for thought!

[Saam]

chains are replaced when required, they last so much longer than the manufacturer ever expects to see the car so there is no service schedule in relation to them. You may never ever ever need to replace it, v6 commodore engines go around 400,000 - 500,000 k's if even at all. Old mazda's i used to see come in would have a bucket load of kays and have never needed it. (worked at mazda)

sam

[steak_knife]

Love chains, i`m of the opinion that belts were designed to sell more parts..
If you don`t know the service history of the motor, I`d put an oil flush through before you change the oil & filter. Don`t get the cheep flush`s tho.

Steve

[steak_knife]

P.s I`ll have a look through my manual`s at work & see if i`ve got 1 for the j20, from memory i don`t tho.

Steve

[Stuey]

I thought I'd drag this topic back up again in case anyone ever does a relevant search: I asked for a quote to do a timing chain replacement and I was given the figure of $1250. Mine is rattley on cold start, it soon settles down but I'm keeping an eye on it.

Quote:

Love chains, i`m of the opinion that belts were designed to sell more parts..
If you don`t know the service history of the motor, I`d put an oil flush through before you change the oil & filter. Don`t get the cheep flush`s tho.

Steve

Which do you recommend? And why? I'm a little concerned with my engine as the previous owner was not thorough with regular oil changes. As a result, the head is sludgy and I'd hate to take a look at the bottom end. I'm changing my oil every 5000km (and using a good oil, Penrite SYN 5) and putting a flush through before dumping the oil each time, and each time it comes out black as anything! Besides pulling the engine down and cleaning it is there something i could consider doing to help reduce the sludge? If I do change the timing chain, does the sump etc need to come off because this would present a good time to remove some of the excess?

[steak_knife]

Nulon do a good 1, short of a strip down flush is your best chance, & keep changing the oil & filter every 5k, all chain motors rattle on start up as the tentioner is oil fed, mine puts out shit loads of noise some days & none the rest .

as the other left said, use a GOOD oil.

[Stuey]

Thanks mate. Fortunately, it has been the Nulon Engine Flush that I've been using. Your comment on "GOOD" oil, is that to say Penrite SYN 5 is no good? rated to suit 10W-30 oil needs and at near on $70 a bottle I thought it would be good.

Or was it more of a generalisation?

Someone once said to me with the Engine Flushes to poor it in then take the car for a drive to loosen shit up. I've been hesitant with this as directions only suggest idling the car for 15 mins or so to circulate and get up to temp, then dump the oil. Would driving the car be a bad idea with the flush in you think? I dont know what chemical properties the stuff has and what it actually does besides the marketing on the bottle.

[steak_knife]

Stuey wrote:

Thanks mate. Fortunately, it has been the Nulon Engine Flush that I've been using. Your comment on "GOOD" oil, is that to say Penrite SYN 5 is no good? rated to suit 10W-30 oil needs and at near on $70 a bottle I thought it would be good.

Or was it more of a generalisation?

Someone once said to me with the Engine Flushes to poor it in then take the car for a drive to loosen shit up. I've been hesitant with this as directions only suggest idling the car for 15 mins or so to circulate and get up to temp, then dump the oil. Would driving the car be a bad idea with the flush in you think? I dont know what chemical properties the stuff has and what it actually does besides the marketing on the bottle.

YES!! VERY BAD!!!!!

follow the instructions. I once (never do it again) left a car running with a flush in it & forgot about it!! Cost me dearly to rebuild.

[atari4x4]

i've always run the nulon oil flush, i got a whole box of them for free of a mechanic mate a while ago. my j20a has done 127,526kms & it's spotless inside the rocker cover, no rattle on start up. new filter & oil 10w-40 magnatec every 5000kms & no chain rattles.

[steak_knife]

If i put magnatec into the v6`s thay come back the next day rattling their brains out. I have to use protec in the V6`s

[Stuey]

Lucky you! Mines on 126,000 and its filthy as. Pisses me off to be honest. Wtf is so hard about changing oil every 5000kms. Laziness is all it is. Obviously it will end up shortening the life of the engine somewhere down the track. Now I need to try to reverse some of the damage. Engine still runs well though. At least until one of the oil pick ups gets clogged....*shudder at the thought of $$$*. If I spin the engine bearing due to the shit in there the engine is then a throw away item. The car is in such good condition I'd have to consider a V6 transplant.

[atari4x4]

steknig wrote:

If i put magnatec into the v6`s thay come back the next day rattling their brains out. I have to use protec in the V6`s

what weight is the protec stuff?

[steak_knife]

Hell year!!! V6 MMMmmmmmmm, V6

[mike.knew]

I ended up using Nulon engine flush, $11 from super cheap before I dropped the oil and yuck ... the junk that came out. I have never used an engine flush before but I am definately going to use it on my others cars at the next oil change. There is a Subaru service shop accross the road from work and I see allot of new cars being taken for a spin up the road with "HEAPS" of smoke pooring from the back end, I wonder if this is some sort of flush? Not 100% positive as I have only seen this done on Subaru Outbacks. I though would only follow the instructions on the bottle though which for the nulon product was to let it idle for 5 minutes.

I also changed the fuel filter, air filter too plus the spark plugs. The plugs made the car run allot smoother. Gear box and transmission fluids are next on my list.

I also mention that my SR20DET is chain driven too and I was able to confirm what has basically been said here too - chains last the life of the motor. On the note of oil types, I have found 5-40W in my Nissan makes a noticable difference in engine power and actually fuel consumption too. I find though that after 5000km's I can notice a difference in fuel consumption, she is a little more thirsty. On my nissan I find that I get a little chatter from the timing chain especially first thing in the morning, for my car this is normal and nissan have actually replaced the timing chain tensioner in the parts list to include the tensioner that came in the S15 (200SX) that has a rachet type thing to stop the slack on startup. I am not worried about it.

[TASSIETOYUKI]

Subaru has a "Top engine cleaner" IE carbon remover that is squirted into the intake and helps dislodge the buildup of carbon from the valves, combustion chamber pistons and upper rings. Made by "bars leak" but only available through Subaru. My dad uses it quite a bit on older cars, works a treat but not cheap though

(Used by subaru on major services)

[steak_knife]

TASSIETOYUKI wrote:

Subaru has a "Top engine cleaner" IE carbon remover that is squirted into the intake and helps dislodge the buildup of carbon from the valves, combustion chamber pistons and upper rings. Made by "bars leak" but only available through Subaru. My dad uses it quite a bit on older cars, works a treat but not cheap though

(Used by subaru on major services)

Ment to be every service, GOOD STUFF!! when you use it make sure the eng isn`t hydro locked up before hitting the key, seen 3 diffrent apprentace`s totally f*#k eng like that.

Protec is 10/30 atari, use mag in your`s, if I could use magnetec I would!!!!