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Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
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Author:  Stuey [ Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:14 am ]
Post subject:  Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
Ok, I'm at wits end with this recurring problem. For those that aren’t already familiar with the drama I’m having from other posts, I’ll recap. When driving in 4x4 (front hubs locked in etc), my drivers side CV shaft where it goes into the diff housing, keeps pulling out by a good inch or two to the point where the splines no longer mesh and all drive to that wheel is lost.. I thought it may have been due to the nylon support bush I installed recently not allowing the shaft to be pushed in far enough for the circlip on the end to lock in place (see This Post for further info on this). So for the third time I have pulled my diff out to investigate. To be absolutely certain, I ripped out the housing oil seal and removed the nylon bush. I then re-inserted the CV shaft by itself into the diff housing with nothing for it to foul on. The shaft goes in easy enough and you could say it feels like the circlip grabs on something, but in saying that it also seems to pull out way too easy. With minimal force by hand it can be pulled out again. When reading the Haynes Workshop manual it suggests you need to pry the CV shaft away from the housing, and I’ve heard stories of the circlip grabbing so well that they shear off when trying to remove the shaft. This doesn’t seem to be the case with mine. Does something sound wrong here? Keep in mind I’ve had a ARB locker installed and I only mention this as I don’t know enough about what gets changed in the diff itself to know if it may influence anything. Does the area the shaft supposedly locks into get changed or does that remain factory issue? How about an uprated circlip? Could it be anything else? I’ve run out of ideas and to be honest I'm getting quite shitty about it all as its becoming a big inconvienience. I’m open to all suggestions and I apologise for asking about this all again.

Thanks.

For the record this is what is resulting
Author:  Taff [ Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
replaced the circlip?
Author:  Stuey [ Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
Mechanic said it was ok. Plus it locked into my old diff no worries before I swapped in the steel GV housing.
Author:  Stuey [ Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
Alright, I’ve been trying to dig into this a little deeper and I’ve stumbled on some anomalies.

In referring to the Suzuki parts catalogue, the CV shaft for a SE416 Vitara (1.6 ltr) is shown as:
Author:  Stuey [ Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
The CV shaft for a SV420 (2.0 like mine) is shown as:
Author:  Stuey [ Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
The CV shaft for a SQ420 (2.0 Grand Vitara) is shown as:
Author:  Stuey [ Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
Also when doing research on CVs available to buy on the net, I found a pic of a CV shaft assembly on Ebay supposedly to suit the SV420. It was shown as follows, which matches up to the pic suggested by the Suzuki parts catalogue.
Author:  Stuey [ Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
Here’s where it all falls apart. Searching back through previous topics on this forum I found this one posted by Royce, after a Grand Vitara Owner snapped the circlip on the CV shaft:

royce wrote:
yeah you replace the whole hemisphere with a Vitara one (or an airlocker) and fit freewheeling hubs

the sticky point is the groove on that cv for that clip is in a different spot on a vitara so the GV cv doesnt clip in it just sort of stays in there, I dont know anyone who has had a drama with it, you cant use a vitara CV either

options are to machine a new groove or make up a stub axle like on the passenger side and run 2 passenger shafts



Keeping that in mind, here is a pic of my CV shaft assembly. It doesn’t match up to the suggested shaft for my model, and if Royces comment holds true, could I be on to something? Can anyone else confirm my suspicions. I have no idea why a different style shaft would be in my car. But then I don’t know if the previous owner changed them at any time and in doing so, if they used the right ones. It seems a lot of people mix up the SV420 with the Grand Vit.
Author:  royce [ Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
measure from the circlip groove to the shoulder of the cv and then from where that shoulder butts up against the diff housing and se if the end of the tape measure slips over teh end of the side gear in the diff, if not keep pushing in till it does

wheres a pic of your clip?

I know the wide vits have a different shaft to 1.6 vits but I think the CV themselves are the same as a 1.6, GV are different in size and the position of the circlip groove, it is further away from the shoulder so when you fit a normal vit airlocker it slips out about 5mm sometimes, falling out either the clip isnt engaging or its flogged, they certainly arent designed to last going in and out all the time
Author:  DSzuke [ Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
Which Air-Locker did they put in? The 22 spline or a 26?

Maybe they have put in a 22 spline one, then had to install 1.6 model CV's which would be too short (easy to change the shafts though).

Your model normally comes with the 26 spline front doesn't it?
Author:  Stuey [ Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
DSzuke wrote:
Which Air-Locker did they put in? The 22 spline or a 26?

Maybe they have put in a 22 spline one, then had to install 1.6 model CV's which would be too short (easy to change the shafts though).

Your model normally comes with the 26 spline front doesn't it?


Definately 26 spline, ARB locker installed was an RD88. Still using original shafts.
Author:  Stuey [ Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
I've been out with the measuring tape and compared the depths of my original alloy 4.6 centre (ie how far the spline needs to push in before the circlip locks in and confirmed it with the measurements of the shaft itself. I've then compared it to the ARB centre in the steel housing and its very different. Whilst the inner CV housing appears to push all the way in to the side of the diff housing and meet nicely with the oil seal, its not physically possible for the circlip to lock in place as it doesn’t go in deep enough by approx 5mm. At the end of its travel the circlip is still within the side gear of the locker. This is either a case of the spline end not being long enough, or the collar in the ARB side gear being too shallow. In english..... on my CV shaft where it widens just after the splined teeth, it fouls on the small reduction lip in the ARB side gear. All I can put it down to was that the ARB locker was always intended for the earlier 1.6 vits etc.


Original Alloy Housing with original 4.6 center
Image


Steel GV housing with ARB RD88 locker installed
Image

Original Driveshaft
Image

So I need a favour from someone who has the earlier style CV shaft lying around or access to one from a V6 H20A vitara (because this is supposed to be the same as the SV420), and I would like them to measure the distance in from end of the shaft to the circlip, the overall length of the splined section, and the length of the shaft from the inner tip (circlip end) to the inner CV housing eg.

Measurements Needed
Image


I got a quote from Suzuki for a new shaft…. Approx $900!!! Farken expensive. I’ve managed to find cheaper by ringing around but I don’t want to order a shaft without knowing the measurements and if it’ll fit. Hopefully with measurements I can finally end this ordeal.

Thanks.
Author:  Saam [ Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
you should be able to get a shaft from a 1.6 pretty cheap mate, go aftermarket someone will have one, stuff suzuki.
Author:  royce [ Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
Steve has a V6 one, I'll go measure it today, might be able to get a 1.6 measurement too
Author:  ajsr [ Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
dont you sleep royce ,posing at 4:40 am?
dude your and addict you need help :wink:
Author:  royce [ Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
Up here in QLD we have useful light at that time of day :)
Author:  Stuey [ Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
royce wrote:
Steve has a V6 one, I'll go measure it today, might be able to get a 1.6 measurement too


Royce, that would be great. if you can be bothered a 1.6 measurement would be good too but i expect the overall shaft to be shorter due to narrower vehicle track, whereas the V6 should be the same length. i'll wait to hear back. thanks.
Author:  steak_knife [ Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
royce wrote:
Steve has a V6 one, I'll go measure it today, might be able to get a 1.6 measurement too


I`ve got 1 if needed :P , It`s gathering dust under the house,,,,
Author:  royce [ Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
yes the whole shaft is longer than the 1.6, if steknig has one he can measure the 1.6 one, I would have to hunt down an unreliable person to get the measurement :)
Author:  steak_knife [ Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
royce wrote:
yes the whole shaft is longer than the 1.6, if steknig has one he can measure the 1.6 one, I would have to hunt down an unreliable person to get the measurement :)


Yes boss... Still in the diff....
Author:  steak_knife [ Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
X = 2.5mm
Y = 38mm
Z = 98mm
There is a oil flinger on the cv that is 5mm deap, so addind that to Z =103mm, the circlip grove is 2mm.
All taken with a ruler as my verniers are at work

Pic added
Author:  royce [ Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
is that a 1.6 one? mines different to that
Author:  steak_knife [ Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
royce wrote:
is that a 1.6 one? mines different to that


Yep, saam sold it to me, 5.12 gearing...
Author:  Stuey [ Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
Thanks so much steknig, great help. Already you've indicated that the circlip is slightly closer to the end on the 1.6 compared to the shaft I have. That may be all the different needed. I'll wait till Royce gets back with the V6 measurements and go from there.
Author:  royce [ Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
:oops: I better get onto that in the morning :)
Author:  Stuey [ Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
Thats alright mate. Tomorrows fine, I just appreciate you being willing to do it......
Author:  steak_knife [ Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
Glad to help, it will prob help some one else down the line to, so all good... :wink:
Author:  royce [ Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
Well I went and got me fancy little ruler from the garage and my camera for proof and trundled over and he sold em already!!

I think thats the first thing Steve has ever sold :)
Author:  steak_knife [ Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
royce wrote:
Well I went and got me fancy little ruler from the garage and my camera for proof and trundled over and he sold em already!!

I think thats the first thing Steve has ever sold :)


What about sticker`s??

That remind`s me........
Author:  buzbox [ Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloody CV shaft again...... (sorry)
Hey mate, I can vouch that the ebay CV's are made in taiwan and you can make your own assumtion on the quality. The standard shafts copped a bit more of a hammering that what they did before breaking. I was lucky enough to take them back to their shop for a refund.
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