ignition timing. i will even put money on it.
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| WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... https://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7315 |
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| Author: | v.w.dave [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
Ok so I finally had the time today to get my engine back into my sierra. Its a freshly rebuilt 8v 1.3L head that had been shaved 40 thou. The block is 16v 1.6L w ith new rings and bearing. I checked the valve clearance and know the valves and pistons dont touch and confermed with Suzifours that the 8v 1.3 will work on the 16v 1.6 block. They had a running engine there with the same combo of head and block but there head had 55thou shaved off so I know mine is fine. All the timing marks are lined up. Crank mark (dot) is at the top lined up with the arrow on the block The cam key is pointing down making the timing mark on the sproket line up with the mark on the timing cover. I cross checked all of this on alldata and the suzuki factory manual so I know they are right. The distributer dizy is slightly pointing back at the fire wall in the direction of the pasanger side of the sierra. Inline with the cyl 1 spark plug wire. once again checked on alldata and factory manual. I have between 153 and 155 PSI compresion on all 4 cylinders. (this was checked with the other 3 spark plugs in turning over for 5 seconds) I have spark at the coil I have spark at the cap I have spark at all 4 spark plugs I have adjusted the distributer advance/retarding I have fuel coming out of the pump I can see fuel coming out of jets in carby I the correct oil level (not that it will affect it starting) I dont have the radiator in so there is no coolant (not that it would affect it) I have messed around with the a few of the vac lines. I have tried half a can on start you bastard. when turning it over it turns at a good speed When spinning it blows a bit of smoke back up through the carby then farts and back fires but will not start. What am I missing????? I spent 6 hours today trying to get this engine started and I am out of ideas. My only guess is that the spark isn't strong enough making me think the coil is loosing its kick. The spark at the plug is a dull blue. But in my expierance even with a week spark it will kick and kind of run. I am all out of ideas and have never had this much trouble getting a rebuilt engine started. I know I am going to get some flack over this but I NEED HELP |
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| Author: | weaves [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
the thing that spring to mind, dizzy 180 out (not sure if thats even possible with a right angled drive dizzy) and or firing order incorrect. thats all i can think of that this time of the night. hope you get it running soon weaves |
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| Author: | v.w.dave [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
I numberd the wires befor I took them off of the 1.3 last week so I dont think that is the problem. The dizzy cant be 180 out the way it is timed to the head. With the timing mark lined up on the sproket the dizy is pointing to where it is ment to be. I am sure on monday when I get back up there it will be something stupid that I couldn't see through the frustration. I am pulling my hair out on this one. |
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| Author: | 11_evl [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
I guess triple check piston at tdc with scree driver down hole. And rockers rocking no. 4. Check dissy again. Clean plugs. Maybe check voltage to coil + side for 12v while cranking. Maybe try crank for ages with no fuel(drain from Carb and crimp line). |
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| Author: | v.w.dave [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
The plugs are new. I will try the other when I get back to it. It is probably flooded. I will tear it all down and start from a new. take the belt off the rocker cover off and start it all over again. |
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| Author: | ajsr [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
are you sure the dizzy points to passenger side???the top of my dizzy points to drivers side, i dont know if 1.6 is different but I dount it. surely if that was possible (Idoubt it) that would make you about 60 deg out??? http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgu ... n%26sa%3DX pic of yank car |
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| Author: | shep [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
ignition timing. i will even put money on it.
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| Author: | Scrawny [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
What about the cam sproket? It goes on 2 different ways. It has to be a timing thing, even with weak spark it should still kick. The farting and back-firing suggest timing to me. |
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| Author: | ajsr [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
shep wrote: ignition timing. i will even put money on it.
X2 dealership mechanics 
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| Author: | shep [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
hay scrawnc none of my cam sprockets will go on wrong. 
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| Author: | Scrawny [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
Must be the 1.6 heads I'm thinking of 
That's an early model head isn't it Shep? Square tooth belt.... |
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| Author: | ball [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
It sounds like you have set your ignition timing to fire on #4 instead of #1 When your crank and cam marks are aligned you need to spin the engine over (180 degrees on the cam) until the rockers on #1 are both loose, then set your distributor to fire on #1. |
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| Author: | want33s [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
I've seen cam sprockets with two timing marks... One is an 'I' The other is an 'E' Do you have two marks? Which one are you using? |
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| Author: | ball [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
ajsr wrote: shep wrote: ignition timing. i will even put money on it. X2 dealership mechanics you mean technicians or spare parts fitters 
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| Author: | Zachius [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
yep last time I put back together a 1.3l I had the problem described by ScrawnC. I managed to confirm that this was the case by checking the position of the valves. |
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| Author: | ball [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
http://auszookers.com/index.php?name=Fo ... pic&t=6739 |
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| Author: | shep [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
ScrawnC wrote: Must be the 1.6 heads I'm thinking of
That's an early model head isn't it Shep? Square tooth belt.... yep the photo is a g13a and my 8v carby g16 is the same style. 
my no fail ignition/cam set up system is to get ball to do it. you seem to have to set it up so that it looks wrong and then it works.
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| Author: | steak_knife [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
ajsr wrote: shep wrote: ignition timing. i will even put money on it. X2 dealership mechanics HAY!! We do suck a bit tho... |
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| Author: | steak_knife [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
shep wrote: ignition timing. i will even put money on it.
X2, & I`m gointo to say what wants33s said last week. Dave! arn`t you a mechanic!?  & don`t give me that vw top teach shit, cause a car is a car, vw don`t use different Principal`s for internal combustion to any other manufacturer.
P.s If at first it don`t start(earlyish suzuki that is) after a rebuild, forget the timing mark`s & check TDC physically in no1 spark plug hole, make sure no4 is on a combustion stroke, ie Rocking at the cam. 
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| Author: | v.w.dave [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
Mine dose have 2. It doesnt make a differance what one you use as long as the timing key is pointing down. the picture of the cam sproket up above is off a 1.3 it only has one mark the one used for the 1.6 convert has 2. As I said before it will probably be something stupid |
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| Author: | eldo [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
i would guess its a timing issue, especially as you described the back firing. im definately not a mechanic though, surely some one lives near ya dave and can drop over, didnt you say before that you had a suzuki guru at your work? |
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| Author: | v.w.dave [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
Here you go have a look http://s694.photobucket.com/albums/vv30 ... ng%20belt/ |
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| Author: | v.w.dave [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
I think I need to just get a EFI. Will the 2001 balino 1.6 fit ? |
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| Author: | v.w.dave [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
I do have a guy that useto work at a suzuki dealership a few years ago. He gets back on weds from VW training. I will have him look at it then. But I dont wantto wait that long. |
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| Author: | shep [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
i reckon the you are 180 deg out. pull the dizzy and spin the crank once then follow the book for the install procedure for the dizzy. |
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| Author: | ajsr [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
yep swap all leads to opposite post,bet you it runs. |
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| Author: | v.w.dave [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
In the morning I will try that first thing. (swop the wires) If that dosn't fix it I will be trying a new coil (I can get one from our parts store next door to try) Start with the simple stuff first.... If I am still out of luck I will take the valve cover off andpull the plugs and recheck all the valve timing and TDC. should have just put the rebuild money into getting a EFI 
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| Author: | v.w.dave [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
steknig wrote: shep wrote: ignition timing. i will even put money on it. X2, & I`m gointo to say what wants33s said last week. Dave! arn`t you a mechanic!? & don`t give me that vw top teach shit, cause a car is a car, vw don`t use different Principal`s for internal combustion to any other manufacturer. P.s If at first it don`t start(earlyish suzuki that is) after a rebuild, forget the timing mark`s & check TDC physically in no1 spark plug hole, make sure no4 is on a combustion stroke, ie Rocking at the cam. The simple trueth is I have been brain washed and have been working on VW for so long at times I become retarded when even looking under the hood of others. What is even sadder is I have people from all over calling me and emailing me on how to fix there VW's shoot I still have mates back in america that call me from time to time. I just cant get my head around other concepts some times. It is my number 1 big down fall as a mechanic and I will always freely admit that. |
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| Author: | Scrawny [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
v.w.dave wrote: The simple trueth is I have been brain washed and have been working on VW for so long at times I become retarded when even looking under the hood of others. What is even sadder is I have people from all over calling me and emailing me on how to fix there VW's shoot I still have mates back in america that call me from time to time. I just cant get my head around other concepts some times.
It is my number 1 big down fall as a mechanic and I will always freely admit that. I must admit I'm thankful for such a variety when I was doing my apprenticeship due to this very point. I've had such a great range of vehicles to work on in my short time and it certainly helps. But having said that, if ever I have a VW problem you'll be the first guy I call on Dave 
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| Author: | v.w.dave [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: WTF 1.6 with 1.3 head will not start..... |
If the new VW motors didnt have the vin number lock out I would have put a 1.9TDI in and called it a day. But putting something with that kind of power I would be braking things left and right. But the new can-bus and K-wire vw motors need to have the dash cluster the ECU, TCU, key coil and key chip all talking to one each other to even start. I would have to have all that $#it hiding up under the dash and hope to god it didnt get wet. Not saying that I wont do that one day but not just yet. |
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