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New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning over...
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Author:  Stuey [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:40 am ]
Post subject:  New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning over...
Just put in a new timing kit on my J20A, followed the Haynes worshop manual step by step. All seemed straight forward enough. I got all the match markes to line up ok.

My only concern is the remaining slack at the top of the small timing chain (camshaft chain) after fitting the kit. I've rolled the engine over by hand and no resistance was felt and after a full cycle the match marks were still correct. But the top of the chain seems to get tight, then as the intake cam rolls over it gets slack again. It seems a little jerky for my liking and I can only imagine what would happen at engine cycling rpm's. I just want to check if this is normal before firing the car up again.
Author:  steak_knife [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
Have you released the tentioner for that chain? I haven't built one of them, but the v6's had 3 tentioner's.
wish i had a manual in front of me!
Author:  Stuey [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
Yes, tensioners released. They came in the kit pre locked down with a pin in the small chain tensioner, and a plastic key thingo in the large chain tensioner. Once the chains were fitted I released both. I had to squash the small chain tensioner down to the max to get it to fit. In theory, the only way I see the tension being taken up is if the intake cam were to roll a smidge anticlockwise, and the tensioner take up the slack. But that doesnt seem to happen.
Author:  steak_knife [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
Thay are oil fed, but I don't think it should have that much play.
Did it release much, take up much slack?
any chance you could scan the relevant page & post it so I can have a looky? ?
Author:  Stuey [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
No, it didnt move much. Like I say, that side of the chain was already very taught. Gimma a min and I'll try and scan pics.
Author:  steak_knife [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
O k.





Now?






How bout now? :roll:
Author:  11_evl [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
i dont think he is coming back :(
Author:  Stuey [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
11_evl wrote:
i dont think he is coming back :(


yeah. Took too long stuffing around with the scanner. I'll still get em up cos he's on here 23 out of 24 hours a day ;)
Author:  Stuey [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
Ok, hope you've got fast internet cos the pics are quite big. Kept them that way for detail, although the black and white contrasts makes them a little hard to make out in places.

Page 1

Page 2

Page 3

Page 4

Page 5
Author:  Stuey [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
When you compare it to figure 8.29 on page 5 it would suggest that its right. But I'm not convinced. Just need feedback from someone that has fitted this kit before to see if their experience was similar.
Author:  steak_knife [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
Stuey wrote:
When you compare it to figure 8.29 on page 5 it would suggest that its right. But I'm not convinced. Just need feedback from someone that has fitted this kit before to see if their experience was similar.


Am I not good enough now?? :lol: :lol:

I would go with right, by the look of the slack, moveing only one cam wound only be 10-15 deg, witch is Ok, (1 tooth) Couldn't find anywhere about it being oil fed tho.
Author:  steak_knife [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
Just curios, how much was the Kit??
Author:  Stuey [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
The kit was about $560, included replacement gears, tensioners, chaains and guides. I bought it from Suzistore.

As for the tensioners being oil fed, they did have a supply feed going to them but it appeared to be more for the purpose of chain lubrication, rather than tensioning. Both were mechanically loaded straight out of the box.
Author:  atari4x4 [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
Stuey, having read those pages & looking at your photo's it looks right.

if it goes crunch crunch bang.... don't worry









i think that's the sound it makes just before a V6 goes in!
Author:  Stuey [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
atari4x4 wrote:
Stuey, having read those pages & looking at your photo's it looks right.

if it goes crunch crunch bang.... don't worry









i think that's the sound it makes just before a V6 goes in!


:? Great.......

Oh well.......fingers crossed. I'm putting the diff back in today. Just waiting for all the gasket stuff to go off on the engine bits and then I'll chuck back in all the life fluids. Sometime this arvo I'll brace myself, cringe, and try starting her. I'll let yas know how it goes.
Author:  steak_knife [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
Stuey wrote:
The kit was about $560, included replacement gears, tensioners, chaains and guides. I bought it from Suzistore.

As for the tensioners being oil fed, they did have a supply feed going to them but it appeared to be more for the purpose of chain lubrication, rather than tensioning. Both were mechanically loaded straight out of the box.


Thay run both, oil feed so when it's running it should be Shhh, & mechanical so when the eng is off it keep's it's timing!!

Start it up, as atari said, if it goes bang, V6 & send me that 4 banger :P :P :P
Author:  royce [ Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
Chains are funny cause what looks like a lot of slop turns out to be not much and inbetween 2 cams is always a point where the slack will show

triple check the tensioner is working and pushing against the chain a bit and see how it goes, there isnt much you can really do otherwise
Author:  Stuey [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
Well, I pulled the plugs this arvo and turned the engine over on the starter a few times. All seemed well. Plugs back in and fired her up, rattly as hell as the oil circulated for the first time, but once settled down she is very tap tap tappy. I know the sound is that of the chain getting tight, then slack, tight then slack as the cam rolls over. I didnt run it long as that kind of constant shock on the chain will surely do damage. The engine didnt blow up as such. So all is ok from that point of view. Its just as noisey as hell. So something aint right.

Any suggestions?

Just retouching on a theory, what if I rolled the intake cam back a touch (anticlockwise) to remove that slack at the top of the chain, and let the tensioner on that side take it up? At the moment the chain is so tight on the tensioner side the tensioner is barely able to push out at all. Would that work you think? I know the chain is in the right spot since all the match marks lined up. To move the chain would throw everything out.
Author:  atari4x4 [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
Letting the tensioner take up the slack could work, could it not be out by 1 tooth on one of the cam gears or something like that?

What does Dr Steknig & Dr Joeblow think?
Author:  Stuey [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
atari4x4 wrote:
Letting the tensioner take up the slack could work, could it not be out by 1 tooth on one of the cam gears or something like that?

What does Dr Steknig & Dr Joeblow think?


To be honest, I dont think there is a full chain link in it. And the reality is, the coloured chain links all matched the markings. And the markings matched the indicators on the cylinder head and block. So moving any of the gears, or the chain would actually be misaligning something. The only place there could be room for error is in aligning the cam gears with the match marks on the head. which leads me to think that intake cam may have needed to be slightly further back. To roll it clockwise would have thrown out two match marks, the exhaust cam and the idler sprocket so this is a less likely option.
Author:  royce [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
if they are oil fed the tensioner would be needing oil pressure behind it to take up the rest of the slack and be quiet, this might take a bit of time on a new tensioner to fill up
Author:  Stuey [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
that is true, but in saying it was only running a short time it was in fact around 1-2 min. i would have thought the tensioners would have filled by then?
Author:  steak_knife [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
Stuey wrote:
that is true, but in saying it was only running a short time it was in fact around 1-2 min. i would have thought the tensioners would have filled by then?


Hi!! :P I've driven Gv's round the block to shut them up, PLEASE don't move the cam back, as you have said there is only 1/2 a tooth in it any way & that will only put the cam timing out.
How long did it take for the oil light to turn off?
If it got oil pressure quickly (around normal) I'd be inclined to put a flush into it & run it. It Will shut up. :wink:
Author:  Stuey [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
Oil light more or less came off immediately. My intention is to do a flush, but as soon as the engine made that hell of a racket I shut it off for fear of damage. I take it then that the jarring on the chain wont bust a link or strip teeth? Thats what I was mainly worried about.
Author:  steak_knife [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
Stuey wrote:
Oil light more or less came off immediately. My intention is to do a flush, but as soon as the engine made that hell of a racket I shut it off for fear of damage. I take it then that the jarring on the chain wont bust a link or strip teeth? Thats what I was mainly worried about.


It would have to be seizing a cam to bust that chain.( it isn't !!) :roll:

Start it up again & let it run, I'd even be bringing the rev's up once it has a Lil bit of temp into it, the oil need's to heat up to get thinner, let it.

As I said, I have driven them around to get them to shut up..
Author:  Stuey [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
Ok Steky the wise...... I'm off to dirve a few laps of the area. If I dont post again in an hour, send a tow truck! :lol:
Author:  steak_knife [ Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
Stuey wrote:
Ok Steky the wise...... I'm off to dirve a few laps of the area. If I dont post again in an hour, send a tow truck! :lol:


Please just run it first!!!( in the drive way) :roll: :roll:

Now you have me paranoid!! :lol: :lol:
Author:  Joe [ Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
Well what happened????????????????
Author:  steak_knife [ Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
joseph wrote:
Well what happened????????????????


That was an hour ago, should be back by now!! 8O 8O
Author:  Stuey [ Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New J20A Timing kit fitted - Question before turning ove
ok, back. A little quieter. But still slightly tappy. Ill give it a real good run tomorrow and see how she goes. About to do that flush. Then I need to fix my auto hub as I musta put something in wrong as it wont lock, just goes click click click.

At least i aint stranded on the side of the road. lol

I was beginning to wonder if you you just wanted the 4 pot stekky! :P
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