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S13RR4
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:30 pm Posts: 1072 Location: Sunshine Coast
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 Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:49 am |
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Have just put a bull bar on my car but will be taking it off to remove the outriggers that my tyres rub on, and was wondering if I need to improve the way my bar is mounted.
As seen in the picture the bolts currently go all the way through the rectangle section. But I noticed as I tightened the bolts that these just squished in with the section being hollow.
Top example is how it is, bottom example is proposed...
Would the bar be mounted strong enough if I was to just go through the one side?
If not, how could I strengthen the mounts?
*Ignore the awesome shackle...
Also, what have people done for a front recovery points?
Thanks
Joe
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Last edited by S13RR4 on Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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zukmeista
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:30 pm Posts: 1273 Location: Whangarei,N.Z.
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:52 am |
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madmacca
az supporter
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 8:46 am Posts: 928 Location: Lesmurdie W.A.
Vehicle: X-90 + Lwb Sierra + DeVitt +++
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:00 am |
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best bet would be to add a crush tube (small piece of pipe ,inside diameter slightly larger than the bolt)
between the chassis so as to not crush the chassis rail
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tonyevans
az supporter
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:18 pm Posts: 1998 Location: Lightning Ridge NSW
Vehicle: SJ40 - LJ50 - LJ50V - Vitara
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:01 am |
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I would run both bolts through as the top one is but it should also have anti-crush tubes around the bolts inside
the chassis to stop the walls collapsing from compression when the bolts are tightened and as the bar stains against them.
Tony
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Last edited by tonyevans on Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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S13RR4
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:30 pm Posts: 1072 Location: Sunshine Coast
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:02 am |
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madmacca wrote: best bet would be to add a crush tube (small piece of pipe ,inside diameter slightly larger than the bolt)
between the chassis so as to not crush the chassis rail
I was thinking this, Like a sleeve type thing?
would there be and structural requirements of said sleeve?
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royce
omnipotent being
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:30 pm Posts: 17216 Location: Pluto
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:02 am |
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get some small diameter steel tube, cut to be a snug fit inside the chassis rail
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S13RR4
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:30 pm Posts: 1072 Location: Sunshine Coast
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:02 am |
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zukmeista wrote: Pics?
Of what?
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madmacca
az supporter
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 8:46 am Posts: 928 Location: Lesmurdie W.A.
Vehicle: X-90 + Lwb Sierra + DeVitt +++
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:08 am |
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S13RR4 wrote: madmacca wrote: best bet would be to add a crush tube (small piece of pipe ,inside diameter slightly larger than the bolt)
between the chassis so as to not crush the chassis rail I was thinking this, Like a sleeve type thing? would there be and structural requirements of said sleeve? i would say at a guess 1.5 to 2mm wall thickness mild steel should do
will depend what is available to you in the id size required
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Kermy87
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:13 am Posts: 348 Location: Hervey bay QLD
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:12 am |
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Here's a rough pic of what I've done and what the othe boys have already explained
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
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Last edited by Kermy87 on Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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S13RR4
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:30 pm Posts: 1072 Location: Sunshine Coast
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:15 am |
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rough alright... 
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S13RR4
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:30 pm Posts: 1072 Location: Sunshine Coast
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:17 am |
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Interested to know what people are doing for front recovery points also...
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Kermy87
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:13 am Posts: 348 Location: Hervey bay QLD
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:18 am |
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Sik as drover, 32" mongrels, 4age 20v, 2" sus, 2"
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Kermy87
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:13 am Posts: 348 Location: Hervey bay QLD
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:23 am |
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But any way, I just used 25mm pipe 3mm wall thickness,, just what I had lying round in the shed
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S13RR4
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:30 pm Posts: 1072 Location: Sunshine Coast
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:24 am |
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Kermy87 wrote: But any way, I just used 25mm pipe 3mm wall thickness,, just what I had lying round in the shed
cool thanks mate, see what I can pick up when I get some high tensile bolts
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Rossco
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 10:28 am Posts: 529 Location: Townsville, QLD
Vehicle: 91 WT 1.6EFI
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:27 am |
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I just used 8.8s through one side like your proposed pic. I have been recovered off it and it seems to be alright.
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MrRocky
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:30 pm Posts: 4731 Location: perth
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:32 am |
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the yanks seem to smash a thick walled bit of tube through the pipe that runs accross the front to mount bumper ends and factory recover point to
then they drill it close to the chassis rail and mount the eye and pin recover points through that
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S13RR4
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:30 pm Posts: 1072 Location: Sunshine Coast
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:36 am |
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MrRocky wrote: the yanks seem to smash a thick walled bit of tube through the pipe that runs accross the front to mount bumper ends and factory recover point to
then they drill it close to the chassis rail and mount the eye and pin recover points through that
got any pictures of this?
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got_bar_work
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 8:30 pm Posts: 2214 Location: Brisbane
Vehicle: SQ625
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:44 am |
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I did the crush tube and 2 bolts plus put a pipe in the cross member when I cut the ends off.
Then i welded nuts to the inside of a plate then welded it on the ends and had the bar mount to that aswell
Also had a plate that went to the crossmember and had some bolt through there as well .
The bar never move
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laurie
az supporter
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:30 pm Posts: 1540 Location: Blackbutt
Vehicle: LJ80
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:11 am |
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Kermy87
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:13 am Posts: 348 Location: Hervey bay QLD
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:25 am |
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I never wanted my bar to move (especially with the 9500lb winch) so I added these 2 extra supports to the bar and chassis, to give me good solid anchor points for the bar instead of just the 4 bolts on the chassis rail
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
and ended up with a solid sexy custom tube bar that's practical heavy duty and YET TO BE USED,,, kermy"s been shed ridden for a few months with some breakages
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ball
I live here!
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:30 pm Posts: 4673 Location: Katherine
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:58 am |
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laurie wrote:
x2
Do this have no problems again.
If shep hasn't managed to tear his bar off with the stupid shit he does, no one else is going break theirs.
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shep
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:30 pm Posts: 14499 Location: Here there everywhere
Vehicle: A manly awesome man jimny
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:22 am |
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ball wrote: laurie wrote: x2 Do this have no problems again. If shep hasn't managed to tear his bar off with the stupid shit he does, no one else is going break theirs. i ram stuff just cos it is funny 
arb bar mounts are weak, especially when ya remove the outrigger things.
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TryHard
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 1:49 am Posts: 1041 Location: Perth
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:38 am |
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shep wrote: ball wrote: laurie wrote: x2 Do this have no problems again. If shep hasn't managed to tear his bar off with the stupid shit he does, no one else is going break theirs. i ram stuff just cos it is funny arb bar mounts are weak, especially when ya remove the outrigger things. you sound like me
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Sutho
az supporter
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:30 pm Posts: 735 Location: Scenic Rim, Qld
Vehicle: 1995 SWB Sierra TinTop
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:44 am |
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shep wrote: ball wrote: laurie wrote: x2 Do this have no problems again. If shep hasn't managed to tear his bar off with the stupid shit he does, no one else is going break theirs. i ram stuff just cos it is funny arb bar mounts are weak, especially when ya remove the outrigger things. Shep, i have a arb bar with a tmax9500 winch, it gets hooked up next weekend, im just running the standard arb mounts through the chassis and the outriggers, how will this cope under the strain of the winch ???
any help would be sweet
[marq=down]sorry about the hack[/marq]
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shep
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:30 pm Posts: 14499 Location: Here there everywhere
Vehicle: A manly awesome man jimny
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:47 am |
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dunno mate i had a non winch arb bar and it couldn't handle what i was doing to it.
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Sutho
az supporter
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:30 pm Posts: 735 Location: Scenic Rim, Qld
Vehicle: 1995 SWB Sierra TinTop
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:50 am |
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shep wrote: dunno mate i had a non winch arb bar and it couldn't handle what i was doing to it. damn hahah i guess i will have to have a few test winch pulls under strain to see how she holds haha before i hop onto the tracks
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S13RR4
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:30 pm Posts: 1072 Location: Sunshine Coast
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Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:40 pm |
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ok, with sheps pole bashing idea (auszookers.com/index.p...bar+mounts) and some crush tube between the chassis rail where the bull bar is mounted, would it be strong enough to mount a recovery hook plate on the inside of the bull bar mount as see in the picture?
* note * the plate will have a round section at the front with the hole in it the hook shackle too, just to hard to draw perspective in MS paint.
I plan on using 6 or 10mm plate (which also another point of discussion I want to raise.)
With some M12.0 High tensile bolts. (another point of discussion)
I will put a third bolt in where the hole is shown in the picture as the pull will be in the direction of the chassis rail so thought that would be better able to cope with the pull. But will need some type of spacer for the offset of the bull bar mount.
So hit me with your ideas and thoughts web wheelers
Joe
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S13RR4
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:30 pm Posts: 1072 Location: Sunshine Coast
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:27 am |
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anyone?
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jdk81
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:30 pm Posts: 2372 Location: Ballarat, VIC
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:34 pm |
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This is one idea I have been considering, however it hasn't taken into account side loading effects into the chassis rail. This has not been tested using FEA, so I advise you to not make it. If you make it and it fails, too bad.
Two two of these, that will effectively clamp around the chassis rail. And possibly a third on the other side to prevent tearing of the chassis rail.
Recovery loads can be harsh, if you are going to make something, make damn sure it is safe. If you dodge something up, based on the assumption the tie down point or what ever else has worked fine so far. If what you make breaks and injures or possibly kills someone, what are the consequences.
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royce
omnipotent being
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:30 pm Posts: 17216 Location: Pluto
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:48 pm |
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jdk81 wrote: This is one idea I have been considering, however it hasn't taken into account side loading effects into the chassis rail. This has not been tested using FEA, so I advise you to not make it. If you make it and it fails, too bad.
Two two of these, that will effectively clamp around the chassis rail. And possibly a third on the other side to prevent tearing of the chassis rail.
Recovery loads can be harsh, if you are going to make something, make damn sure it is safe. If you dodge something up, based on the assumption the tie down point or what ever else has worked fine so far. If what you make breaks and injures or possibly kills someone, what are the consequences.
Something like this, with a similar piece that slips inside the chassis rail that has crushtubes already welded to it so its jsut a matter of drilling some holes to pass the bolts through would have to be pretty effective?
I think no matter what you make with a sierra you have to keep the recovery load to the absolute minimum anyway due to the light chassis etc, always dig and stack etc first
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