[atari4x4]

don't blame the grog.... it's not it's fault.

[KEENSY85]

But it’s my only excuse IV used the rest

[boostedbrick]

Gwagensteve wrote:

boostedbrick wrote:

Gwagensteve, have you ever used drop shackles? Or do you right it off as shit because you have your head so far up your ass that your not open to other ideas? .

They have there place in certain situations and terrains...

Them's fighting words I actually tend to think I'm pretty open to different ideas and have built some pretty intentional stuff, but I try to limit the amount of hypothesizing and bench racing on here Most people who know me think I'm far from narrow minded, but a bad idea is a bad idea.

However, I am in a club, and I have built lots of cars. I haven't owned or built a car with drop shackles, but I have built cars with 3/4 elliptic (which is similar but superior to whacky shackles) and a number of club members have run drop shackles. Nobody runs them now, and that's through their negative experiences, not through me saying they are a bad idea.

If the "terrain" is a ramp or posing on a rock, they are awesome. Otherwise they are spooky and unpredictable when the car is weight transferring or under power, just like loose coils/excessively long shocks. In short, on balance, they make a car less capable because they make it less trustworthy when the car is on a big angle and/or under power.

If you never, ever throttle an obstacle, never get the car on a big spooky angle where they unload, and build the whole suspension around them, they mighty be ok. But that's nothing like the real world. Sooner or later they'll let you down. so saying "in some situations and terrains" they work, (see above- ramps and posing) it's also true that in some situations they don't- that being real world obstacles.

That's purely from my experience though.

Steve.

This is my personal experience using them. They work great on flatter terrain, ie dry scrub with lots of rutted tracks and washouts. The extra travel felt like it made everything more stable. The reason I stopped running them is that's not the type of terrain I drive 90% of the time.. There shit on climbs with step ups, that's pretty obvious just by there design. But if they suit the terrain your driving, then whats the problem with them?

Also, they NEVER unloaded on big angle's, people always bring this argument to the table but its bullshit, how could this type of shackle open up on a side slope? If the vehicle still has weight pushing down on the tyre its going to stay closed. IF it doesn't, then you have driven beyond where you should have, suffer the consequences.

I'm also aware of what a 3/4 is, its what I chose to run in the back of my soft top over drop shackles when I built it. But i still run them up front with some success.

[SierraDan]

On side slopes the downward side shackles have weight on them and remain closed the high side would not have as much.
Majority of the time the wouldn't open but in the instance you are on that limit and they did open and put you on a worse angle and possible roll over. But If they have pins then pin them shut and it's fine.

I just reckon the sloppy travel would be the worst part.

[kenny.G345]

I have pins anyway so i can run them closed anyway, If your on that much of an angle that they open ur F#%ked anyway, same with any other 4x4, if your on that much of an angle that something unloads you must be on some pretty hairy angles

[jonno_racing]

kenny.G345 wrote:

I have pins anyway so i can run them closed anyway, If your on that much of an angle that they open ur F#%ked anyway, same with any other 4x4, if your on that much of an angle that something unloads you must be on some pretty hairy angles

not really man. I have driven to a few degrees off a rollover more times than I care to remember.
I'd prefer to have a stable rig on big angles than swanky flex...

also u keen for west coast zook run in jan?

[SierraDan]

x2 my suspension would get light on angles all the time. Only rolled once in 62719

[superduki]

Jazzor would be good in this debate, once he did RUF he pissed the drop shackles off and went back to standard shackles.
I remember on the last westcoast trip we did jonno, he had to travel round the 99 bends at queenstown at like 5-10km/h, due to poor brakes and the fact he'd turn, then the suspension and rest of the car would catch up with his command 2 seconds later.
It's effectively adding freeplay to your steering geometry, which is just down right dangerous.

[Jazzor]

Haha, I didn't want to get involved, your not suppose to say you have drop shackles on here

But yea mine were fine off road, they have never unloaded and I've driven into plenty of V drains showing off. Redoing the whole front end bearings/seals + wt difs + ruf + standard shackles, oh and i added power steering and rear discs too soon after that trip, certainly improved the on-road behavior. Yea I didn't have much (any) brake in 1 pump and horrible turning that trip with sloppyness and no power steering, oh and a rear lockright!, now i have an air locker so it corners better!. That's a few things o_o.

They would probably be fine if i put them back in now with all that done but if I did the front would be too high, is why standard ones are in there. But they are not really required for most tracks here I suppose. When I do bullbar stuff I wouldn't mind cutting them off and moving them back further to rung longer shackles on an angle to hold the same height .

One thing i have noticed with drop shackles in; is when you are flexxed out on opposite sides front and rear and pivoting the 2 other wheels its good with them in, as both un-weighted wheels sit on the ground and the car doesn't move from its "balancing" point, and only adjusts slightly if you drive back/forward/get out. Without them the car can adjust from wheel to the other which can feel bad if it has to drop 30cm! before hitting solid ground, as I don't know if that wheel will hit the ground and support me before I go over, and that extra momentum of the tyre hitting the ground then the car compressing down on the suspension before being pushed back up is more movement than if the tyre was already on the ground. That might be hard to understand from my description... ><. So it always felt fine really flexxed out . Now i've gotta be a bit more careful.

Huzzah

[joeblow]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Sooner or later the car will unload and flop.
Steve.

Similar to your original coil system yes?

[Gwagensteve]

Absolutely Joe, just as I posted last Tuesday.

Gwagensteve wrote:

If the "terrain" is a ramp or posing on a rock, they are awesome. Otherwise they are spooky and unpredictable when the car is weight transferring or under power, just like loose coils/excessively long shocks. In short, on balance, they make a car less capable because they make it less trustworthy when the car is on a big angle and/or under power.

Uncontrolled travel is retarded regardless of of how it's achieved. There's a reason the first thing I did after I built my car was put limit straps on it, but on balance, it would be easier to build the car with shorter shocks to prevent the unloading... just like the factory does

There's an idea.... Drop shackles with limit straps

Steve.