[klutched]

Hey guys,

Anyone got a diagram or manual so I can do my timing... Trying to do it but I can't get it to line up to what it says on AutoData...

Gideon

[offroadjack]

got all on disk. i'll try to print it and scan it and might have to e-mail it to you

[atari4x4]

klutched wrote:

Hey guys,

Anyone got a diagram or manual so I can do my timing... Trying to do it but I can't get it to line up to what it says on AutoData...

Gideon

I posted a link where you can download the FSM in one of you other threads.... it was the head torque thread i think, have a search for it.

[klutched]

Yeah I have it atari but I can't get to the engine part. It goes to everywhere else but that...

[atari4x4]

there are 2 pdfs, part 1 & part 2 open the other one

[klutched]

I think that's the problem... There's no part 2

[atari4x4]

search the google for it, as i somehow ended up with the 2 parts of it on the net

[klutched]

Cheers found it. If anyone's looking for it here's a link.

http://www.filefactory.com/file/5g6nkwz ... 2.pdf_.pdf

[atari4x4]

that's the one, but i didn't get it from there.... have had it for years so NFI where i got it from.

[ninjamoses]

Download the guide I put up in my build thread a few pages back mate. Shits all over the FSM for clear & easy to follow instructions.

EDIT: Almost at the bottom of the page here:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=27787&start=240

[offroadjack]

what are you trying to do anyway? replacing chains?? the reason they rattle is because of the tensioner. the original ones didn't put enough tension on the chain due to a manufact. fault. and reason they got sloppy and causing it to rattle either on start up and at a later stage even when hot and constantly rattling it's head off.. changing timing chains aint a job if your not tech minded and not familier witht the H engines.. those chains will last a very long time and the only one we know of that snapped was at 350.000 k's and that one was rattling it's head off from 200.000 k !! and he didn't want to bother changing his tensioner. a well maintained H25 - 27 running on the right oil won't need its chains replaced! ever in it's life! and if he had his tensioner done at that time it started rattling the thing would probably still going.. 350.000 k's is a damn good milage for a petrol without ever being toutched..

[Chop]

You could'nt have worked at suzuki in the city then? Speaking to them , i was told more than that through lack of maintenance.
They told me this when i asked about the issues of the chain, because when i went looking for one alot rattled badly. Some near on 30 seconds.

[GeckoXL7]

Mine does sometimes on startup it keeps going for around a minute, if i turn the engine of wait a few seconds and restart, second time i start there is no rattle.

I changed the oil filter to a Repco one and bearly rattles anymore ryco ones did it each start. also use penrite premium 5-60 which seems to help too. last 2000ks i havent had the timing rattle at all.

THe original 2.5 / 2.7 manual was uploaded to scrib around 5/ 6 years ago.

[offroadjack]

Chop wrote:

You could'nt have worked at suzuki in the city then? Speaking to them , i was told more than that through lack of maintenance.
They told me this when i asked about the issues of the chain, because when i went looking for one alot rattled badly. Some near on 30 seconds.

worked there for almost 8 years mate, and i've done plenty of tensioner replacements.. they won't tell YOU its a faulty tensioner! and yes, don't skip your oilchanges on them! seen a few clogged up engines with not even 60.000 k's on them due to lack of maintenance/oil change!
and i can even make them stop rattling with the old tensioner in it! for a while at least..

[atari4x4]

offroadjack wrote:

i can even make them stop rattling with the old tensioner in it! for a while at least..

gut full of morey's oil stabiliser?

[offroadjack]

GeckoXL7 wrote:

Mine does sometimes on startup it keeps going for around a minute, if i turn the engine of wait a few seconds and restart, second time i start there is no rattle.

I changed the oil filter to a Repco one and bearly rattles anymore ryco ones did it each start. also use penrite premium 5-60 which seems to help too. last 2000ks i havent had the timing rattle at all.

THe original 2.5 / 2.7 manual was uploaded to scrib around 5/ 6 years ago.

yep gecko, lot of them do it on start up until they build up oilpressure. the tensioner works on oilpressure as well and using the right oil will make a difference. they use 10W30 oil but when they got a bit older and got over 100.000 k's we changed over to 15W40 and that would usually shut them up again. don't go by the service book either, suzuki says 15.000 k oilchanges but thats just a sales tactic to get you to buy a suzuki..cause of the oilchange intervals.. change the oil at least every 7.500 incl. filter and you won't have any drama's.

[offroadjack]

atari4x4 wrote:

offroadjack wrote:

i can even make them stop rattling with the old tensioner in it! for a while at least..

gut full of morey's oil stabiliser?

nah, i hate chemicals and additives.. i still need to take the cover off to do it..but while doin that yuo might as well change the tensioner..only takes 5 min.. thats if you want to spend the $$$ to replace it. it's the salesblokes that made us do that to keep the cost down on vitara trade ins with rattly engines

[Chop]

Thats the biggest issue, getting one that has been serviced with the right oil and flushed properly. Can only imagine how many people don't get their's serviced (if they do get them serviced at all) by mechanics that know the right oil and the problems they can have.
Ultratune, midas and the likes wouldn't have a clue just like the owners taking them there.

[offroadjack]

so to make things clear to all you H25 and 27 owners, don't let anyone talk you into a massive repairbill replacing the chains!!! it's the tensioner thats causing it to make a racket of a noise! if it's only doing it on start up, don worrie about it, if it's ongoing have the tensioner replaced.

[offroadjack]

and yes CHOP, for that kind of repairs you def. don't go to ultratune and the like!! it pays to ...pay a bit more and have it done by someone that knows them..and don't get freaked out by this minor issue, those V6's are a damn good engine that last a long time with the proper maintenance.

[GeckoXL7]

correct me if im wrong, but so many out there say its a bad engine cause of the pretensioner, but only a certain build date range had the issue i think somewhere between aug 2001 and july 2002, mine was built aug 2002 so when mine rattled everyone said oh thats a expensive bill and suzuki quoted 800 just to do timing cover seal and said might as well do chains at same time, think around 1200 all up. I ended up switching to penrite sin at the time and the rattle went away with a sigh of releif. isnt there also a oil injector at the top where the tensioner is? if gets blocked from poor servicing it will rattle like mad too. THe engine and GV was made to be as maintanance free as possible, really only have to worry about oil changes and the air filter. pluss other consumable items.

[klutched]

I got my heads reconditioned. Should be ready to go on Thursday. I'm running repco 10w40 semi syn oil which is penrite oil.

Hey Jack, have you heard/had any problems with changing the rocker cover gasket and then the car runs like shit? It happened to me and huxlee now... ?? My car was running fine then when I changed the rocker gaskets it ran pig as then I got a blown head gasket.....

[offroadjack]

GeckoXL7 wrote:

correct me if im wrong, but so many out there say its a bad engine cause of the pretensioner, but only a certain build date range had the issue i think somewhere between aug 2001 and july 2002, mine was built aug 2002 so when mine rattled everyone said oh thats a expensive bill and suzuki quoted 800 just to do timing cover seal and said might as well do chains at same time, think around 1200 all up. I ended up switching to penrite sin at the time and the rattle went away with a sigh of releif. isnt there also a oil injector at the top where the tensioner is? if gets blocked from poor servicing it will rattle like mad too. THe engine and GV was made to be as maintanance free as possible, really only have to worry about oil changes and the air filter. pluss other consumable items.

i can honestly say that i never seen anything going wrong with these engines apart from the tensioner which is a minor thing really, it is a bit of a job to do the cover seal (wich is just grey silicon) and for them to say you might as well do the chains is just crap. we did quite a few coverseals as some of them had not enough sealand on them from factory and could start leaking oil from the top of the cover just under the rh head ( 3 way leak we used to call it) we got so quivk doing these things that we could fix em within 1.5 hours so you can imagine howmuch the service department stick in their pocket! and your right, leaving the oil in it for too long can def. clog up the tiny little oil channels in the engine creating not only rattly chains but also noisy hydrolic lifters that won't come good anymore.
so maintenance is def high up there for these engines when it comes to oilchanges.
you look after them and they will never let you down. i remember the pikes peak "escudo" (GR VITARA ) running 2 of these engines front and rear with turbos bolted on them! one of the fastest, if not the fastes (i don't keep up with those sort of races) hill climb cars ever to get to that top. goes to show, they aint crap!
have to admit that suzuki don't really build great cars like honda does(quality wise) but they sure make some damn good engines

[offroadjack]

klutched wrote:

I got my heads reconditioned. Should be ready to go on Thursday. I'm running repco 10w40 semi syn oil which is penrite oil.

Hey Jack, have you heard/had any problems with changing the rocker cover gasket and then the car runs like shit? It happened to me and huxlee now... ?? My car was running fine then when I changed the rocker gaskets it ran pig as then I got a blown head gasket.....

no sorry, can't recall anything like that unless you left a vacuum hose off, they don like that.

they probably get to that age now when a headgasket can go, never done one to be honest. i do remember tho that after doing the heads on them they can be very hard to start and get going if the oil runs out of the lifters, we sometimes had to strap em behind another car and pull start them going around the block at suzi, it takes a long time to build up pressure again in them lifters.

[Chairman]

Hi Jack,
Dose what use have covered in the page about the timing chain issues and engine maintenance apply too the H20A engines?
Also could i bolt a H27A to the same mounts as a H20A?

[zukmeista]

SV420 with H27A:
http://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1842

[Chairman]

offroadjack wrote:

what are you trying to do anyway? replacing chains?? the reason they rattle is because of the tensioner. the original ones didn't put enough tension on the chain due to a manufact. fault. and reason they got sloppy and causing it to rattle either on start up and at a later stage even when hot and constantly rattling it's head off.. changing timing chains aint a job if your not tech minded and not familier witht the H engines.. those chains will last a very long time and the only one we know of that snapped was at 350.000 k's and that one was rattling it's head off from 200.000 k !! and he didn't want to bother changing his tensioner. a well maintained H25 - 27 running on the right oil won't need its chains replaced! ever in it's life! and if he had his tensioner done at that time it started rattling the thing would probably still going.. 350.000 k's is a damn good milage for a petrol without ever being toutched..

Hi Jack,
Dose what use have covered in the page about the timing chain issues and engine maintenance apply too the H20A engines?
Also could i bolt a H27A to the same mounts as a H20A?

[twitchy]

I found I had to just about be a fuggen octopus to line al the timing marks up when I rebuilt mine.... However the engine runs like clockwork now & should see out the life of the GV now.

[offroadjack]

yes it's good fun lining them up hey!! haha!.. not your average timingbelt replacement thats for sure!

[offroadjack]

Chairman wrote:

offroadjack wrote:

what are you trying to do anyway? replacing chains?? the reason they rattle is because of the tensioner. the original ones didn't put enough tension on the chain due to a manufact. fault. and reason they got sloppy and causing it to rattle either on start up and at a later stage even when hot and constantly rattling it's head off.. changing timing chains aint a job if your not tech minded and not familier witht the H engines.. those chains will last a very long time and the only one we know of that snapped was at 350.000 k's and that one was rattling it's head off from 200.000 k !! and he didn't want to bother changing his tensioner. a well maintained H25 - 27 running on the right oil won't need its chains replaced! ever in it's life! and if he had his tensioner done at that time it started rattling the thing would probably still going.. 350.000 k's is a damn good milage for a petrol without ever being toutched..

Hi Jack,
Dose what use have covered in the page about the timing chain issues and engine maintenance apply too the H20A engines?
Also could i bolt a H27A to the same mounts as a H20A?

from memorie i don think we had any issues with the 2 litres but it's the same as for any engine, good quality oil and filter changes at least every 7500 k's!.
as for the mounts, i wouldn't know mate, never had/wanted to deal with mix/match swapping unless its pretty straight forward like the g13 and g16 engines. the M13 and M18 can be swapped easaly as well but has a few problems with the ECU not recognizing the change over but i have my resources for that lol.(sorry bout the spelling...i'm a crazy dutch bastard and it doesn't have a spelling check on here LOL )