[30ONA]

Where is it? Looked in the manual which directs me to the console under the steering wheel. The cover says fuel pump 15amp fuse but there is no fuse in that position, and no terminals for a fuse.

Trying to depressurise to change the fuel filter.

[30ONA]

Sh!t. Tried to remove a few relays near the fuse that matched up with internet pics, none worked and now the car won't fire. Just turns over with the engine light flashing. Please help.

[fordem]

I could be wrong but on that model I don't think there is a separate fuel pump fuse, the FI fuse (in the under-the-hood panel) protects that circuit, along with the entire fuel injection system, you need to pull the fuel pump relay (in the panel on the outer wall of the driver's footwell) to depressurize the system.

[30ONA]

I tried the four relays in there one at a time. But each time I turned on the ignition I could still hear the fuel pump priming. Now with then all back in the car won't fire.

[fordem]

Three things are required for combustion to occur - air, fuel & spark - which are you missing? Hearing the fuel pump prime doesn't tell you if there is a spark, it doesn't mean that there is fuel to the engine, and it doesn't mean that there is enough fuel pressure for injection to occur - try pulling a sparkplug and checking for spark, also check to see if the plugs are wet with fuel, the possibility also exists that you may have flooded the engine in which case there will be insufficient air.

[30ONA]

Flooded. In my panic I didn't think of that. Nope.left it overnight and still nothing.

The engine light is flashing with the ignition on. I found an old from losfer about needing to recode after a flat battery caused a flashing engine light. Is it possible that because I removed the engine relay I've triggered the immobilizer or something?

[fordem]

Have you tried pulling a plug? Is it wet with fuel? Do you have spark?

[losfer]

flashing check engine light IS immobilizer problem. He will have no spark and no injection pulse . Im afraid he may of even triggered the problem himself by removing relays in a period of less than 90 seconds from the ignition being turned off.

At a guess i would say immobilizer has lost transponder code. It MAY require a tow to Suzuki as a tech1 with adaptor is required and i only have the latest SDT.

Let me go plug it into the wifes 2005 liana will give me an idea of the capabilities of reprogramming immobiliser. I dont like my chances though as key recoding etc is a pretty sensitive area. They dont want just anyone with a new key and a scanner being able to steal your car..

[30ONA]

Damn. Thanks for confirming.

[losfer]

Ok on earlier models mine will do engine/powertrain , abs/esp , srs airbag , transmission/cvt , and ac. No immobiliser function.

Im sure you will have a manual diag port under the dash but they are difficult to find.

[losfer]

Fordem , you are a bloody smart guy but you are missing one of the key components for an engine to run , compression. Whenever i have a problem, its sometimes not overthinking it and going back to basics .Air fuel spark and compression. Back in the 90's i was a small engine mechanic and with engines that only had 2 valves and 1 piston and 1 spark plug it was very easy to diagnose problems .Its no different with car engines theres just more of everything.

300NA , i would safely say that fordems technical advice is every bit as good as mine and theres nothing he said that i wouldnt of suggested myself.

As an afterthought . and its not going to help you now . But just touching on the overthinking thing , I know the manual states you must depressurize before working on the fuel system , but i wouldnt of bothered and never do. Its going to be 40psi max , it does drop after sitting overnight. even 40 psi is only going to have a very small burst of fuel so i just wrap a rag around when removing the hose mainly to stop it going all over the ground or engine. You would never do this with a common rail diesel engine , but petrol engine is fine. 40 psi of fuel pressure will not hurt you.

[30ONA]

bugger. yes I was following the manual.

I'll call Suzuki tomorrow when they open.

So if I can get into Suzuki what do I ask for? Are they recoding the ecu and key? I would imagine it should only be an hours work and towring will be my biggest expense.

[losfer]

This is where the problem is going to be. Its the dealership mentality that will want to extract every dollar they can from your wallet to put into theirs.
They will do a scan and charge you for that they will want to confirm what the error code is (which is fair enough) they will then do further diagnosis to confirm that the transponder code is not being transmitted to imm control module or ecu. They may even tell you you need an immobiliser or ecu or both.

You can ask them to do a reprogram , but its actually part of their "diagnostic procedure" to follow their wallet filling ( or emptying in your case) flowchart.

And to be honest you cant always trust a customers diagnosis (or the diagnosis from an internet forum) to be correct. sometimes you can waste time by not following the "procedure" and jumping in to 1 thing without the relevent testing and diagnostics confirming thats what the problem is.

See how you go , explain what you did and see if they can do a reprogram straight off the bat and failling that get the diagnostic procedure under way.
Dont mention internet forum...

[30ONA]

Thanks.

[30ONA]

So which one is the fuel relay?

[losfer]

It will have a pink wire going to fuel pump.

[30ONA]

I can't see any of the wires under there so I'll go the rag technique.

On the no start issue. RACQ have been, can't get any codes on their reader but have introduced fuel manually and no fire. They suggested CAS. Is this possible? I've booked the car for a tow tomorrow to Suzuki ($140 for 1hr diag.). Is there anything I can do to rule out CAS before then?

[fordem]

Missing CMP (CaM Position) sensor or CKP (CranKshaft Position) sensor WILL set a code, and at least on an non-immobilizer equipped vehicle will turn the engine light on - you can hang a scope on it if you have access to one.

[fordem]

losfer wrote:

It MAY require a tow to Suzuki as a tech1 with adaptor is required and i only have the latest SDT.

If this is the same procedure as used to code new keys, I've seen the dealer here do it with a laptop and some sort of comms adapter that plugs in via the OBD port.

[30ONA]

So if there are no codes on camp or ckp and then 100% immobilizer issue?

[fordem]

That MIGHT depend on exactly what happened when the RACQ attempted to read the codes - did they actually get the reader to connect and got no codes - or - did they get no codes because the reader did not connect.

Were they using a reader compatible with your vehicle?

To the best of my knowledge, OBDII was not required in Australia in 2004, so your car may not be OBDII compliant, and if it is not, then you would need a reader capable of handling Suzuki's SDL protocols, and these are not very common - one alternative method is to short the under hood connector with a paperclip jumper and count the flashes of the check engine light. If you are using the second method be aware that CMP failures do not latch and will clear when the ignition is switched off, you need to crank the engine with the jumper in place to see these codes.

[30ONA]

I have no jumper.

RACQ couldn't get their reader to work. losfer was able to with his on a previous occasion but I don't know what his is.

[30ONA]

Ok so 4 days to make a decision.

Suzuki found code DTC84 ECM/IMMOBILIZER CONTROL MODULE CODE NOT REGISTERED(P1620). Their proposal, replace the immobilizer control module at a supply and install cost of $1000 but they cannot guarantee this will work. I asked if they can try re-coding it first, they said I'll check with the mechanic. Next time I spoke to them they said they already tried that as it is part of the diagnostic procedure. Can Anyone confirm this? The manual says for this code Perform procedure described in “Procedure after ECM/PCM Replacement” section, so I guess this checks out. But from what is posted above and the cost of $723 for a new part I'm sceptical.

So far options I've come up with are.
1. Find a donor working module, can I just get one from a wreckers if I know the car starts? Does this mean it can be coded into my car without changing the aerial and ecm?
2. Spend $180 with logan master locksmiths as they think they could recode but still charge if it doesn't work.
3. Call another dealer for a second opinion knowing now that as expected it is an immobilizer issue?

I'm thinking 3, 2 then 1. The biggest problem is the car can't be driven and I don't have a tow vehicle or trailer.

I feel sick thinking about spending 1000 I don't have. After this issue I'm totally over doing any work myself to try and save a buck. Seems like you just get screwed no matter what. I'm out of pocket$200 and the car is still no better.

Option 4. Anyone want to buy it off me as is.

[losfer]

Considering that that code refers to no ecm/immobilizer code is registered in ecm , how are they coming to the conclusion that the immobilizer control module is faulty?
I really think the ecu has lost its memory and the key needs to be registered to the ecm as per the manual states in procedure after ecm replacement.

Obviously theres no simple answer to how you are going to save money considering you have to get a tilt tray everywhere , and then pay another dealer for a diagnostic. The original dealer arent going to take lightly to you getting a mobile locksmith out to the to try and reprogram it either.

I personally would try option 2 first considering you wouldnt have to tow the car anywhere and it will only cost $180 , then if that fails either trust dealer 1 or get it to another dealer , that is totally your decision and not one i am going to make for you.

As for option 1 , you need a "start up kit" all the components .. ecu immo and key (and some cases aerial as well).

[30ONA]

I'll see if I can talk to an actual mechanic at Suzuki, not the front desk. If they still think it's the module I'll get the locksmith.

[30ONA]

I got hold of Rhinoman. He agrees not the immobilizer. He thinks ecm check sum error, whatever that is. I'm trying to get the ecm number for him to determine if he can fix it. Can you just get an ecm from a wreckers and recode?

[losfer]

33920-52J41

[30ONA]

Is that my ecm number? Is that from when you scanned it?

[GV6]

Hi 300NA,

Did you end up fixing this, what was the solution ?

I might have a similar ?? problem.

[30ONA]

Might be fixed, I have parts in the mail but cannot report on the fix till the car is running, hopefully in the next week.