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Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:43 pm
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Vehicle: Suzuki Super Carry

Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:16 pm 
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Hi guys,

I have a few questions and have searched up varying answers, so hoping to get more of a straight answer here
My car is a 94 SWB Vitara for reference

Suspension
1. I want to lift my SWB Vitara - Lets say around 3" total
Would it be better to go 2" body lift, with a 1" lift kit, or go a 2" lift kit with a 1" body lift? Whats the pros and cons?
2. What brand suspension?
Have heard Dobinsons and EFS are way to go.. But how about brands like Ultima, KYB and Pedders? Some reputable shops sell these brands
3. Are SWB and LWB lift kit suspension the same?

Engine
1. Is it true that G16B blocks are susceptible to cracking? Or only certain G16Bs?
2. What should a 'good' compression reading be for G16B EFI motor?
3. Will a cat-less exhaust increase or decrease power?
4. Is it worth getting extractors and exhaust?


Forced Induction

1. If I want to run ~5psi turbo setup, will the stock ECU handle it with a rising rate FPR?
2. Will I need bigger injectors?
3. What piggyback fuel computer has a pre-made harness? AEM FIC? eManage?


Tyres
1. Whats the benefit to going bigger tyres? What are the negatives?
2. Currently my car is running 235/75/15 (~28"). Will my car be noticeably less power (on/off road) with 31" tyres?
3. What rims and offsets are people running which require flares? Will 15x7 -10 be too aggressive?


Last edited by Jezzza on Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:02 pm
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Vehicle: Vitara 1.6

Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:40 pm 
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Well a few answers:
Factory spec compression should be 199psi from the book. I think 165 is official minimum. Mine were 113-135 before some recent work.

Body lift is only of value of you need it to fit bigger tyres.

Bigger tyres will increase your diff clearance and make the gearing taller. (Both hi and low range will be higher ). Will increase stress through the drive shafts. Car will feel like it has less power. Also you may notice the extra unsprung weight.

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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:30 pm
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Location: Melbourne

Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:44 pm 
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Obviously just my opinion(s)

Jezzza wrote:

Suspension
1. I want to lift my SWB Vitara - Lets say around 3" total
Would it be better to go 2" body lift, with a 1" lift kit, or go a 2" lift kit with a 1" body lift? Whats the pros and cons?


3" is a fair bit of lift. Body lift is strictly for fitting tyres. Suspension lift alone does not fit larger tyres. 1" suspension lift kits or body lift kits aren't commonly available.
I can't see the point in a 1" body lift. It won't make a significant difference to anything.

Choose suspension based on your use. Choose body lift based on your tyre size.

Quote:
2. What brand suspension?
Have heard Dobinsons and EFS are way to go.. But how about brands like Ultima, KYB and Pedders? Some reputable shops sell these brands


You've left out OME. They'd be getting my money. I believe they make the best struts.


Engine
Quote:
1. Is it true that G16B blocks are susceptible to cracking? Or only certain G16Bs?


G16B's in vitaras do seem to crack. In a vitara the heads can crack, I have seen some blocks crack between the bore. There is a (plausible and credible) theory that this is due to coolant flow as Balenos don't seem susceptible to cracking, the biggest difference being coolant flows from one end of the motor to the other in a Baleno, but out and back in a Vitara.


Quote:
3. Will a cat-less exhaust increase or decrease power?

It will likely do nothing for power if your cat is in decent condition. The potential fines for removing a cat are pretty savage though.

Quote:
4. Is it worth getting extractors and exhaust?


Maybe. The engine pipes in G16B vitaras are prone to collapse internally (they're a double skin design) the cast section of the manifold is prone to crack and the cat is probably well past its best. Most of any performance increase will be from fixing things that are broken rather than improved flow.




Quote:
Forced Induction
1. If I want to run ~5psi turbo setup, will the stock ECU handle it with a rising rate FPR?
2. Will I need bigger injectors?
3. What piggyback fuel computer has a pre-made harness? AEM FIC? eManage?


Depends whether you want a Facebook spec hand grenade or a proper car. Broadly, yes, you'll need all of those things to make it work and last. budget $8-15K form those who have done it properly.


Quote:
Tyres
1. Whats the benefit to going bigger tyres? What are the negatives?


This is a bit "how long is a piece of string" question. all these answers are "potential" benefits: Increased potential traction, depending on terrain. Increased floatation, depending on tyre and whether you really want that. Increased sidewall height allows more deformability at low pressure which increases traction and keeps the suspension in contact with the terrain, adding traction by itself. increased ground clearance from increased tyre diameter. (This is the ONLY real ground clearance improvement worth talking about) increased durability from a heavier construction tyre.

however. All of these things are relative. In some situations, a bigger tyre is just a liability.

So, Negatives:

Reduced braking performance from increased unsprung weight and leverage.
Reduced acceleration from increased unsprung weight and leverage
Reduced ride quality form increased unsprung weight
increased wear on all steering and suspension components
Increased NVH (noise, vibration harshness)
Reduced traction in some instances depending on tyre choice (shock, horror!) through reduced ground pressure (imagine walking on wet grass in dress shoes. Then try it in footy boots. THAT's ground pressure at work)
Reduced directional stability/steering response due to available tyre sizes. This is an interesting one. The fashion of wide floatation tyres pioneered by predominantly Californians n the 1970's has led to an all-pervasive belief that 31X10.5, 33X12.5 et al are the be-all and end-all of tyres. This was only true if you were in southern California in the 1970's and had a jeep with no gearing and drove nothing but fire trails and sand. The poms and the japanese knew that a 7.50 R16 was what worked all along. The Americans have now mostly worked that out, albeit on a much larger scale. Have a look at the height/width ratio of a 7.50 R16 and compare it to a 37 or 39 12.5 (or even a 43 13.5) - they're relatively tall and skinny. That's because a narrow, long footprint is more efficient to drive through the terrain and offers the best steering response. The square footprint of the short/wide common sizes do nothing for drivability.

And last, gearing. Tall tyres reduce effective torque at the wheels. The is evident everywhere, but most noticeably on the highway, where you might loose 5th gear almost entirely, and when you are driving technical terrain offroad and you can't slow the car down enough. A G16B powered vitara already has the lowest commonly available diff gears, (5.12) so you can't easily correct the gearing on road for taller tyres. This is a big deal.


Quote:
2. Currently my car is running 235/75/15 (~28"). Will my car be noticeably less power (on/off road) with 31" tyres?

Yes.
Quote:
3. What rims and offsets are people running which require flares? Will 15x7 -10 be too aggressive?

Yes in my opinion. you want round +13 IMHO.

Just my thoughts.

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Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 11:50 am
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Vehicle: Vitara 1994

Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:36 pm 
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My vote is keep the car as it is and wheel the crap out of it first.

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Vehicle: Suzuki Super Carry

Post Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:14 am 
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Gwagensteve wrote:
Obviously just my opinion(s)

Jezzza wrote:

Suspension
1. I want to lift my SWB Vitara - Lets say around 3" total
Would it be better to go 2" body lift, with a 1" lift kit, or go a 2" lift kit with a 1" body lift? Whats the pros and cons?


3" is a fair bit of lift. Body lift is strictly for fitting tyres. Suspension lift alone does not fit larger tyres. 1" suspension lift kits or body lift kits aren't commonly available.
I can't see the point in a 1" body lift. It won't make a significant difference to anything.

Choose suspension based on your use. Choose body lift based on your tyre size.

I will go for a 2" lift then, as my tyres rub on the inner guard/metal body when im 4wding and on lock

Gwagensteve wrote:

Jezzza wrote:
2. What brand suspension?
Have heard Dobinsons and EFS are way to go.. But how about brands like Ultima, KYB and Pedders? Some reputable shops sell these brands


You've left out OME. They'd be getting my money. I believe they make the best struts.


OME? Is there a supplier in Perth?
Any other comments regarding Ultima, KYB and Pedders?

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Location: Melbourne

Post Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:18 am 
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Contact between the inner guard and body when at full lock/cull compression isn't really effectively fixed by lift. best to adjust your steering stops or trim/hammer the areas where contact is being made. As these surfaces are basically vertical, you can imagine that moving them up won't really get them out of the way - you might have to move them a LONG way up to eliminate contact, then you have to deal with the downsides of all that lift - centre of gravity, front CV joint angles, alignment, rear driveshaft vibration etc.

ARB is the supplier for OME.
Ultima is just a cheap eBay brand.
KYB is basically stock replacement
Pedders don't understand the 4WD market.

Only OME, dobinsons and tough dog offer longer front struts as far as I am aware. Even Calmini's 3" lift still uses stock length struts. Tough dog struts actually seem to be too long. In my opinion OME offer the best valving and highest quality long struts. Springs and rear shocks aren't anything special - there's lots of sources, but OME generally offer sensible lift heights and a very good ride if the springs are chosen properly.

Steve.

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Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 8:42 pm
Posts: 82
Vehicle: Suzuki Vitara JLX

Post Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:02 pm 
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EFS also supply a longer strut for Vits, they have the same actual (total) travel as standard, 162 mm as do many others out there. The shaft itself is 35mm longer and comes with an extra bump stopper to go between the shock body and the top mount to preserve the shock's insides in case the factory bump stop on the bottom arm can't. (due to people flipping strut mounts etc)
I went for EFS personally because I could not find a bad word said about them and the price for me was OK. They are matched to EFS springs with 20mm spacers for a lift of about 40mm over stock.
Any more than that and you'll need camber bolts, bump stop spacers and preferably front diff drop brackets to help CV angles
Before you do anything, because we don't know what state you live in, before spending money check on what you can legally modify and go from there. eg some states won't allow a body lift, or turbo etc

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Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:43 pm
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Vehicle: Suzuki Super Carry

Post Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:10 am 
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Ahhh.. OME = Old Man Emu
Its hard to find shops that sell for Vitara.. Im in Perth
Im just gonna hammer it!

Pretty sure 2" is legal in this state

Another question..
When buying a snatch/snap strap, do you have to buy it based on vehicle weight?

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Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:30 pm
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Location: Perth
Vehicle: '92 Sierra, 1.6efi, SPOA, 31s.

Post Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:04 am 
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2" lift is legal without engineering certs etc - however tyre size increase is incredibly minimal to still be legal.

So just be aware that larger tyres, wider rims etc will all generally make it "less than legal".

The more you can do to restrict lift the less attention you should attract.

Suzistore (www.4wdpartshop.com.au) sell a range of product for Vitara and can likely source OME for you (and fit it if you're not inclined to do so). Likewise guard chops etc - though it's not cheap to pay shop time, it gets done well.

Do a search in the "rigs" section for "Shandy92" and his Vitara. IMO that was really well set up and super reliable, all built on a budget.

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Vehicle: Suzuki Vitara JLX

Post Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:35 pm 
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don't forget to budget for a tank guard, sliders, bashplates, it'll all get hung up otherwise

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