[Jccck]

I've read about RUF, and even seen Lux Fronts in Rear..
But i've never heard of 2" RUF, and 2" Lux Fronts in Rear?
So i did it.
Ironman Springs, all are the comfort/light duty.. And the Lux springs are Petrol not Diesel.. (Lux Drivers Side Front went in Zook Drivers Side Rear FYI)

SETUP
2" Zook Rears, removed the Load Spring ONLY (Kept 4 in the pack, 3 was too soft)
2" Lux Fronts, removed bottom 2 from the pack (Kept 3 springs)
2" Ext Shackles in Front (These were existing)
3" Ext Shackles in the Rear (Replacing the rear 2" Ext)

FRONT
With 2" Ext Shackles, didn't have to modify the front.
Shackles sit about the 35 degree mark (measured from Horizontal) when loaded

Diff moved approx 2" forward, caster angle also increased and is at a lovely angle (Better than regular 2" lift kit was!)

REAR
Replace my 2" Ext Shackles with 3" Ext Shackles (Yeah, we'll see how this goes.. But it looks fine)
Made new spring hangers out of 6mm plate (Only one side of one is made.. I need to finish the other 3 plates off today)
The eye is approx' 1.5" further towards the centre of the car than the stock mount
Shackle angle unloaded (off the ground, with NO diff/tyres in) is approx' 50 degrees (measured from Horizontal)
Quick mockup text guesstimated the angle to be 40 when loaded.

GUARDS
Currently NO bodylift.. 2" is to be installed this weekend if it shows up by friday.. Bought from BYE Products! (Thanks Greg)
30x9.5r15 on flipped/rewelded centre 15x8's with WT diffs.. Have FULL turning circle at rest height
Full flex upward, 33" Tyre would clear the firewall easily at full lock.. Even before the 2" Bodylift
Full lock toe in, scrubs and limits turning significantly
Outer guard must be chopped 1" lower than the highest point of wheel arch, all the way forward.. And angled towards the body mount on the inner guard
With Chop, 2" Bodylift and 33x12.5r15 MTZ on the 15x8 flipped/rewelded centre rims.. There will be even touching of the guard when wheel is straight, and no additional as flexed up wheel is turned toe-in

Bumpstops will be set with 1" of clearance from the guard (To allow for that little extra if a wheel is forced hard upwards
Not sure how long they will need to be over stock, will keep you posted
Sky Shockmount Kit (10" Hoops in front, Crossmember in back for Inversion and weld on Axle mounts all round)
Shocks will be bought after she's ramped up and the maximum compression/extension is determined
I'll keep ya posted on the Shocks that i chose

6.5:1's and 33"s are going on before she's moving.. So it could be a weekend or two before i've got the Shock and Bumpstop numbers for you
(It's hard to drive up a travel ramp with no transfer case/tailshafts =P)

Hope this helped, i've never seen a writeup for it.. So i'm hoping it did.

[Jccck]

If you want more info just ask, i'll post pics of the shackle angle and new spring hangers/rear shackles when i'm home.

[Hybrid]

Got 2 inch lux fronts sitting at home. Already got RUF. Would be interested to see how the rear sits and also how it flexes. When the lux springs were in their original vehicle I needed a kidney belt to go out the driveway.

[JrZook]

Jccck wrote:

Diff moved approx 2" forward, caster angle also increased and is at a lovely angle (Better than regular 2" lift kit was!)

How did the springs change your caster angle?

[Jccck]

Well standard RUF is supposed to keep the front level with 2" rears in back.
Standard Lux fronts are supposed to still retain you at a level stance

So if i add 2" to each, i should sit level right? Not quite.
Because of the shackle angles.. Especially the front, i feared the rear would sit lower.. The 1" longer shackles and the 10mm dropped spring hanger should ensure i sit level, maybe even a little higher in the back

If it sits too high in rear, i can put the 2" shackles back in.. I positioned the hanger so it could suit either length and not be impractical

Remember though that the 60mm wide Lux fronts even with 3/5 leaves remaining are stiffer than the 4/5 Zook rears with 4/4 (But no load spring)
This is all relative to the weight though, there's a similar amount of spring compression based on the weight at both front and rear

[Jccck]

JrZook wrote:

Jccck wrote:

Diff moved approx 2" forward, caster angle also increased and is at a lovely angle (Better than regular 2" lift kit was!)

How did the springs change your caster angle?

Shackle angle previously was like 75 degrees with car's weight (measured from horizontal)
So now the spring eye is considerably closer to the shackle hanger.. Putting the eye to eye angle closer to horizontal than it was before..

Note the diff is still located on the centre hole of the spring perch (Mine only have one hole )

[2stroker]

Well standard RUF is supposed to keep the front level with 2" rears in back

No, the reason that people use standard rears in the front and 2" in the rear and it ends up close to level is because they do a half arse job, instead of moving the mounts to the correct location they just add longer shackles to compensate for the extra length of the rears up front and this makes the front close to level with the 2" rears in the back.

I always use 2" rears in the front, I use standard shackles and I move the mounts to the correct spacing. (i.e. take a measure of the distance that the rear mounts on the chassis are apart and make the front the same)

[Hybrid]

Jccck wrote:

Well standard RUF is supposed to keep the front level with 2" rears in back.

I've heard this from so many people yet my zuk sits dead level with 2 inch rears all around. With stockers in the front I would definitely be nose down.

Also JR was asking about the caster angle, not shackle. I think he means you're losing caster by running the RUF with longer shackles on the front. Mine wandered everywhere when I first did the RUF with extended shackles but I corrected this with caster wedges. Even now I've gone back to stock shackle length RUF I keep the wedges in and she drives great.

EDIT: 2 Stroker beat me to it above.

[JrZook]

Hybrid wrote:

I corrected this with caster wedges.

More info preez, I would like to acquire some

[Jccck]

Hybrid wrote:

Jccck wrote:

Well standard RUF is supposed to keep the front level with 2" rears in back.

I've heard this from so many people yet my zuk sits dead level with 2 inch rears all around. With stockers in the front I would definitely be nose down.

Also JR was asking about the caster angle, not shackle. I think he means you're losing caster by running the RUF with longer shackles on the front. Mine wandered everywhere when I first did the RUF with extended shackles but I corrected this with caster wedges. Even now I've gone back to stock shackle length RUF I keep the wedges in and she drives great.

EDIT: 2 Stroker beat me to it above.

My caster angle is brilliant, trust me.. It's right on the money.
I was talking how shackle angle changes has moved the forward eye of the spring closer to the chassis in terms of vertical distance
Which points the caster angle up.. Which is what has happened.
So my caster angle is currently perfect, even with the back sitting a little higher than it will end up at.

2 Stroker, what half assed job?
My goal of this was to run these springs with a 35-40 degree shackle angle at front and rear.
I haven't paid any attention to "standard" rear spring hanger spacing
Because i'm running non-standard springs.
I already had 2" ext shackles all around, and have opted to change to 3" in the back.

I had the option of moving the rear spring hanger further forward, or running a rediculously long shackle
Instead i moved the hanger a little bit forward, and will use a little bit longer shackle

Note, my rear Diff has moved back approx' 10-15mm
I can't go too much further without running the risk of interfering with the fuel tank
So a rear chassis extension wasn't an option, alot of work for a little wheelbase imo.
Besides i would've had to remake the spring hangers anyway, as the Lux Fronts are 60mm and wouldn't fit cleanly into the existing ones.
And if i bent the bracket, i'd chew through bushes like crazy.

[Hybrid]

JrZook wrote:

Hybrid wrote:

I corrected this with caster wedges.

More info preez, I would like to acquire some

Check here. I'd get the 3 degree wedges. There were no suzi ones around when I got mine so I got snake racing hilux ones and cut them down. These are actually for zuks.

Depending on your spring packs and existing u bolts you may need longer ubolts.

[Jccck]

JrZook wrote:

Hybrid wrote:

I corrected this with caster wedges.

More info preez, I would like to acquire some

Lowrangeoffroad has 'em, hit up google

EDIT:
Forgot about SuperiorEngineering.. Go with them instead!

[31zook]

this castor thing is true, brett told me about it, then i drove my swb with rears all round and i noticed the front being light at 100k's. so when i went to wt diff's in my lwb i rotated the mounts 3mm over the lenght of the perch, (couldn't find an angle gauge) then i did a full ruf on standard shackles (chassis extension like what 2stroker said) and it really tight and together at 140 with no wonder or lightness to it.....

[steak_knife]

31zook wrote:

this castor thing is true, brett told me about it, then i drove my swb with rears all round and i noticed the front being light at 100k's. so when i went to wt diff's in my lwb i rotated the mounts 3mm over the lenght of the perch, (couldn't find an angle gauge) then i did a full ruf on standard shackles (chassis extension like what 2stroker said) and it really tight and together at 140 with no wonder or lightness to it.....

We have a winner..

[steak_knife]

Jccck wrote:

My caster angle is brilliant, trust me.. It's right on the money.
I was talking how shackle angle changes has moved the forward eye of the spring closer to the chassis in terms of vertical distance
Which points the caster angle up.. Which is what has happened.
So my caster angle is currently perfect, even with the back sitting a little higher than it will end up at.

What happens when you go over a bump, throw's your caster out, hugely if you have extended shackle's..
please tell how your measuring this caster??

[alien]

all these replies and no ones asked for pics? lol

[steak_knife]

alien wrote:

all these replies and no ones asked for pics? lol

I've seen fork lift's before, his just has Honda light's..

[JrZook]

steak_knife wrote:

please tell how your measuring this caster??

LOS?

[Jccck]

JrZook wrote:

steak_knife wrote:

please tell how your measuring this caster??

LOS?

Nah i asked my dog, he nodded so i assumed all was good.

I've got a pretty neat pic of the front flex! If my friends will upload it..

steak_knife wrote:

What happens when you go over a bump, throw's your caster out, hugely if you have extended shackle's..
please tell how your measuring this caster??

It will positively throw my caster out, and given the length of the spring.. It won't be a huge amount
Not that it will matter at 5km/h on the trail.

[steak_knife]

Jccck wrote:

Nah i asked my dog, he nodded so i assumed all was good.

Smart dog...

[Jccck]

steak_knife wrote:

Jccck wrote:

Nah i asked my dog, he nodded so i assumed all was good.

Smart dog...

I know!

But he has his moments, like when he tried telling me it was a good idea to replace my cup holders with dog food tin holders.. Silly

Okay, i've got the drivers side mount welded in.. Passenger side is tacked, will weld it up tomorrow

I'm going to winch it up a travel ramp tomorrow arvo hopefully, definantly will have plenty of pics from that!
Reason for winching, xfer case is in pieces on the bench.. Waiting for the 6.5's to show up

[royce]

if your camber changes on a solid diff its fucked

I personally, am waiting for you to hit a bump at speed and those awesome shackle angles see you trying to extract them from whatever they smash into when they invert, not that I am going to tell you this cause we all know you know everything and refuse to accept that other people have been there tried that before and it was shit so didnt do it anymore

[Jccck]

royce wrote:

if your camber changes on a solid diff its fucked

I personally, am waiting for you to hit a bump at speed and those awesome shackle angles see you trying to extract them from whatever they smash into when they invert, not that I am going to tell you this cause we all know you know everything and refuse to accept that other people have been there tried that before and it was shit so didnt do it anymore

Isn't that what bumpstops are for, Royce?

We lifted the back up from one side to test the front flex today.. Front passenger side was hard on the guard.. And the driver's wasn't at full droop.
Shackle angle wasn't anywhere near inverting.

The spring can't stretch, so to speak.. It will lengthen a little when it flattens out.. But from how it acted today it won't be enough to allow the shackle to invert.. Even if the bushes were screwed (Which they aren't they're brand new)

I was worried about them inverting, but after seeing the front articulate i'm happy with it.
But it's all up in the air as to what will happen, we'll see when it's done

I'll get some pics of the setup working tomorrow arvo if all goes well.. That should help

EDIT: Royce i mean't caster =P
I actually gusseted the swivel hubs to prevent such a mishap

People say you will bend diffs with bigger tyres?
How does the size of the tyre have any effect on a diff being bent..
I can understand the weight factor to a small degree.. But tyre size?
Is it a myth?

[JrZook]

Jccck wrote:

People say you will bend diffs with bigger tyres?
How does the size of the tyre have any effect on a diff being bent..
I can understand the weight factor to a small degree.. But tyre size?
Is it a myth?

Heard of the concept of mechanical leverage?

[Jccck]

JrZook wrote:

Jccck wrote:

People say you will bend diffs with bigger tyres?
How does the size of the tyre have any effect on a diff being bent..
I can understand the weight factor to a small degree.. But tyre size?
Is it a myth?

Heard of the concept of mechanical leverage?

How does it apply to a bigger diameter tyre?
Putting a force on the tread of your wheel from any direction will increase if the tyre is larger..
Rim offset will have an impact, but how could tyre size?

[Taff]

which one would you think is easier to bend?

[alien]

most likely cos you cant run that much larger tyre without going offset rims to clear the springs etc.

[Jccck]

Taff wrote:

which one would you think is easier to bend?

Why would there be a sidewards force on the wheel in that spot?
If it were at the middle front or back i'd understand.. But that's caused by and absorbed by the steering
And if it were on the lower edge (Like your picture) either inside or outside.. Why can't the suspension handle it?

Or are you guys just drifting and hitting gutters and saying it's a problem?

[2stroker]

Jccck wrote:

Taff wrote:

which one would you think is easier to bend?

Why would there be a sidewards force on the wheel in that spot?
If it were at the middle front or back i'd understand.. But that's caused by and absorbed by the steering
And if it were on the lower edge (Like your picture) either inside or outside.. Why can't the suspension handle it?

Or are you guys just drifting and hitting gutters and saying it's a problem?

You are kidding YES, or do you just drive on flat tarmac..

[royce]

Leverage point between anywhere on the circumference of the tyre to teh middle point of the diff, doesnt matter which way the force comes from