[Jccck]

royce wrote:

Leverage point between anywhere on the circumference of the tyre to teh middle point of the diff, doesnt matter which way the force comes from

Thanks for clearin it up.. You aswell 2Stroker
I wasn't quite sure if angles like that picture really posed much of a threat

I've heard people getting their Zooks airborne and bending diffs, which wouldnt be affected by the Tyre Size.. But in these situations i can understand how

Which are the weak points on a WT Zook Diff, front or rear.. I'm guessing both along the axle tube (Bending like a banananana, which i've seen.. Due to jumping)
And where the swivelhubs connect to the axle tube, due to above picture..

I gusseted the swivelhubs and i don't plan on making my Zook fly.. Should be overkill for 33s?

[JrZook]

Jccck wrote:

I've heard people getting their Zooks airborne and bending diffs, which wouldnt be affected by the Tyre Size

Dude dont you mean would here? Or are you just agreeing to disagree again

[Jccck]

JrZook wrote:

Jccck wrote:

I've heard people getting their Zooks airborne and bending diffs, which wouldnt be affected by the Tyre Size

Dude dont you mean would here? Or are you just agreeing to disagree again

An upward force on the wheel, perpendicular to the axle.. Isn't going to be affected by tyre size lol
But who cares, i'm not an idiot offroad.. I go slowwwww

Here's a pic a friend just emailed me, that he took yesterday
Car is sitting close to level, just leaned over.. It's all front

Only used a jack off the chassis rail.. So it's not the best indication, but i recon i could get some pics up the ramp tonight (No bumpstops ofcourse)

Ignore the mess, i didn't have time to clean last night.. That's todays first job

[royce]

its not perpendicular, all the force isnt going into teh axle housing at 90 degree to it, its working like a lever on the swivel hubs, across the spring perch etc, the bigger the tyre the longer the lever

[Jccck]

royce wrote:

its not perpendicular, all the force isnt going into teh axle housing at 90 degree to it, its working like a lever on the swivel hubs, across the spring perch etc, the bigger the tyre the longer the lever

Yep, would i be fine in a situation similar to the picture 2Stroker posted.. With a 10mm thick gusset between the bottom of my swivelhubs and my axle tube? Welded along the entire length of both sides (In stages to keep heat down)
Gusset is approx 60mm long? I'll get a pic tonight
It should be more than enough i hope

[atari4x4]

seems your front right tyre is off the ground?

[Jccck]

atari4x4 wrote:

seems your front right tyre is off the ground?

By about 10mm
Like i said, no bumpstop and using a trolley jack on the chassis rail =P

[tanshi]

that front end flex is pretty piss poor

[Jccck]

tanshi wrote:

that front end flex is pretty piss poor

With a trolley jack on the chassis rail, no bumpstops and no rear end to lever off
It would be different if i had a driver side rear wheel to attatch an engine crane to
It has a heap more travel, just can't demonstrate it without driving up a ramp
Which will be done this arvo hopefully..
So wait for that pic before you make up your mind

The drivers side shackle is still at like 75 degrees, it can reach -15 or so at full droop
We tested it prior to fitting the diff with a scissor jack.. Easily got there
I've got to jack it up like this to weld the other spring hanger on.. So i'll throw a scissor jack between the diff and chassis at same time and i'll max it out for you okay

[tanshi]

if the front end is set up right, bumpstops will make no difference,
my LJ has twice that with no extended shackles, standard springs and about a foot less wheel track, so i doubt your photos will impress

[Jccck]

tanshi wrote:

if the front end is set up right, bumpstops will make no difference,
my LJ has twice that with no extended shackles, standard springs and about a foot less wheel track, so i doubt your photos will impress

Whatever you think make, go hate on somone else.. This is trial and error which i'm happy to do.
Im getting new mounts all round incase i need to move them for fine tuning

First RUF i've ever done, never even played with suspension before besides installing a lift kit.. So give us a break.. And don't judge til it's done kay?

[JrZook]

royce wrote:

its not perpendicular, all the force isnt going into teh axle housing at 90 degree to it, its working like a lever on the swivel hubs, across the spring perch etc, the bigger the tyre the longer the lever

Royce this man is a genius better leave it up to him

[tanshi]

dude it was a simple comment that the flex wasnt all that impressive. for the amount of work your putting in i would expect more. you really have no idea what constructive critisism means do you

[Jccck]

JrZook wrote:

royce wrote:

its not perpendicular, all the force isnt going into teh axle housing at 90 degree to it, its working like a lever on the swivel hubs, across the spring perch etc, the bigger the tyre the longer the lever

Royce this man is a genius better leave it up to him

Damn straight.

[Jccck]

tanshi wrote:

dude it was a simple comment that the flex wasnt all that impressive. for the amount of work your putting in i would expect more. you really have no idea what constructive critisism means do you

No, you had to be an ass about it.. You could've made a suggestion, asked a question about what's holding it back, etc
Instead you straight up said it's shit

I'd hardly call the front alot of work, i bolted a rear 2" zook spring into the hanger and shackle.. That was it.

Only reason front was tricky, was because i had to gusset and protect the diff.. Which has nothing to do with flex
The rear is where all the work is being done.. So it might just impress you.

There's a difference between constructive criticism, and "Hey dude that's shit"

EDIT:
About the bumpstop comment you made.. Am i wrong in saying
When lifting from the drivers side chassis rail, until the passenger side wheel hits the guard.. Doesnt it become easier to just lift the drivers side wheel off the ground, because there is no leverage avaliable to force the wheel down.
With a bumpstop it will act as a lever (Passenger side hits bumpstop say 1" before the guard
The passenger side wheel wants to keep travelling, focal point being the bumpstop and it still has 1" of travel left
So the drivers side wheel is levered down (Yes it's an inefficient lever, considering the bumpstop's position)
But it's a lever nontheless, and that wheel will be forced downward until either the bushes prevent more twisting, the leaf prevents more bowing, or the shackle angle maxxes out and won't allow any more spring travel.

Yes, no maybe?
Because unless there's some other out of this world factor i can't think of.. Then this is all true.
So can you understand now why the car wouldn't allow the wheel to drop any further than it did? Given the test method

[tanshi]

cry me a river!

[atari4x4]

get lockers, then flex is over rated.

[Jccck]

tanshi wrote:

cry me a river!

Just did brah
Want me to build you a bridge too? So you can jump off it..

Jccck wrote:

EDIT:
About the bumpstop comment you made.. Am i wrong in saying
When lifting from the drivers side chassis rail, until the passenger side wheel hits the guard.. Doesnt it become easier to just lift the drivers side wheel off the ground, because there is no leverage avaliable to force the wheel down.
With a bumpstop it will act as a lever (Passenger side hits bumpstop say 1" before the guard
The passenger side wheel wants to keep travelling, focal point being the bumpstop and it still has 1" of travel left
So the drivers side wheel is levered down (Yes it's an inefficient lever, considering the bumpstop's position)
But it's a lever nontheless, and that wheel will be forced downward until either the bushes prevent more twisting, the leaf prevents more bowing, or the shackle angle maxxes out and won't allow any more spring travel.

Yes, no maybe?
Because unless there's some other out of this world factor i can't think of.. Then this is all true.
So can you understand now why the car wouldn't allow the wheel to drop any further than it did? Given the test method

atari4x4 wrote:

get lockers, then flex is over rated.

Not a huge fan of lockers, but once flex and tyres won't help me any more.. I will get some

[atari4x4]

how do you understand the principal of bumpstops & fulcrum points but cant get you head around larger tyres causing more leverage?

you really are a special little boy if you don't like lockers.

[Jccck]

atari4x4 wrote:

how do you understand the principal of bumpstops & fulcrum points but cant get you head around larger tyres causing more leverage?

you really are a special little boy if you don't like lockers.

So i am right about the bumpstops?
What is Tanshi dribbling about then?

You guys are right about the tyres, but i'm trying to give you another sitation that it seems i fail at explaining.. And i cant upload the pic i drew from this comp.. Argh

Why should i like lockers? So i can chuck wheelstands everywhere and get into places my car should not otherwise be going?
Flex and tyres come before lockers in my books.

EDIT:
I just made an observation, ATARI is a reordered VITARA with the V missing.. Is that how you came up with that name? I always thought it had something to do with the gaming company haha

[atari4x4]

What I'm just saying is you seem to know everything about anything but somehow still know nothing.

[tanshi]

there is very little point in me even trying to explain to you why bump stops are not going to change the travel much at all. you don't listen, won't take on board any one elses knowledge, and automatically go on the defencive when people suggest that you might do some thing a better way.

you hae alot to learn and unfortunatly for you your going to have to learn from your own mistake and hope they dont kill you

[Jccck]

tanshi wrote:

there is very little point in me even trying to explain to you why bump stops are not going to change the travel much at all. you don't listen, won't take on board any one elses knowledge, and automatically go on the defencive when people suggest that you might do some thing a better way.

you hae alot to learn and unfortunatly for you your going to have to learn from your own mistake and hope they dont kill you

I listen to plenty of people on this forum.. I've learnt so much here, especially off a small few
But i completely ignore people like you (And there's a couple like you)
That just hate, constantly.
If you can't offer advice, and would rather come in here and tell me i'm an idiot who won't listen to anyone.. Ofcourse i'm not gonna listen to YOU.

But i'm done with you, how about we keep the chat in the chat forum?
I've got nothing more to post about the Zook until i get home and take some pics, so save your dribble til then Tanshi.

atari4x4 wrote:

What I'm just saying is you seem to know everything about anything but somehow still know nothing.

I know a little bit about alot of things, not everything about anything

[atari4x4]

Jccck wrote:

Ignore the mess, i didn't have time to clean last night.. That's todays first job

When you get around to cleaning up, don't forget to scrap that big black pos taking up all the floor space.

[JrZook]

atari4x4 wrote:

Jccck wrote:

Ignore the mess, i didn't have time to clean last night.. That's todays first job

When you get around to cleaning up, don't forget to scrap that big black pos taking up all the floor space.

Are they real regoplates and stickers? Put some flares on that thing!

[5ierra]

JrZook wrote:

atari4x4 wrote:

Jccck wrote:

Ignore the mess, i didn't have time to clean last night.. That's todays first job

When you get around to cleaning up, don't forget to scrap that big black pos taking up all the floor space.

Are they real regoplates and stickers? Put some flares on that thing!

He doesnt need flares, he's exempt from state legislation because he is a fair superior driver to anyone else in NSW and doesnt drive on the road all that much...

[Jccck]

I've got a set of 6" Bushwackers sitting in their box on the bench to the left
Do they count?
Have to wash the car, then put them on

And one is a rego sticker, one is a local beach permit.. Before anyone asks

5ierra wrote:

He doesnt need flares, he's exempt from state legislation because he is a fair superior driver to anyone else in NSW and doesnt drive on the road all that much...

Thats.. Almost a compliment! Thanks

[LAY80N]

Just a question, not having a go at you. But have you driven a dual locked rig much?
You are more likely to have wheel stand problems with super flexy but uncontrolled suspension than a dual locked rig with average flex. Lockers (and gearing in the case of a zook) enable you to slowly crawl places without needing to give it a bootful. meaning that big wheelstands and the like are much less likely. You may lift wheels but it will be smooth and controlled. But thanks to the lockers drive wont be lost, where as with big flex even though you may have a wheel drooped out and touching the ground, there will be no weight on it. Without any mass pushing down there will be little traction and you will spin that wheel and lose drive from that axle. Again im not having a go, just wondering why you dont like lockers.

Layto....

[ajsr]

id take a locker or two over any other mod tyres suspension or motor.
they are the biggest improvement you can make to the capability of your rig IMO

ps your flex is crap, you would have done better with suzi stuff and a small clue as to what your doing.
this is not hate just facts so man up

[Jccck]

LAY80N wrote:

Just a question, not having a go at you. But have you driven a dual locked rig much?
You are more likely to have wheel stand problems with super flexy but uncontrolled suspension than a dual locked rig with average flex. Lockers (and gearing in the case of a zook) enable you to slowly crawl places without needing to give it a bootful. meaning that big wheelstands and the like are much less likely. You may lift wheels but it will be smooth and controlled. But thanks to the lockers drive wont be lost, where as with big flex even though you may have a wheel drooped out and touching the ground, there will be no weight on it. Without any mass pushing down there will be little traction and you will spin that wheel and lose drive from that axle. Again im not having a go, just wondering why you dont like lockers.

Layto....

I've just never liked a 4x4 that was locked simply because it's the best value capability modification you can do.
Might as well punch in the cheat codes to offroading.
My 4x4 friends drive anything from stock LWB Vitaras to Exo Caged Twin Locked GQ Utes on 38.5" Creepys
I see some of the places the unlocked 4x4s can get, with the help of 35s and flex.. It's quite amazing where you can go with a good line and a helpful spotter to guide you

I can't drive everything those unlocked guys on 35s drive.. And i'd love to.
And from what i see, Lockers aren't everything.. Sure the locked up trucks make it a little easier, but at the end of the day even they are limited by flex and wheel traction

I'm not totally against lockers, i'm just not sure they're the right move at the moment.
And if i did buy them, i would get those autolockers front and rear (At the same time)
No need to relearn how to drive twice lol.

People will say get Airlockers.. But seriously, hand me your VISA and i'd be glad to.
Can't justify spending such a rediculous amount of money on something that will only help me on maybe 1/4th of the tracks i explore with friends

Thanks Layto, do you have any comments regarding the shackle angle? Diff movement? Bumpstops etc?
Was hoping you and Gwagen might have some advice

ajsr wrote:

id take a locker or two over any other mod tyres suspension or motor.
they are the biggest improvement you can make to the capability of your rig IMO

ps your flex is crap, you would have done better with suzi stuff and a small clue as to what your doing.
this is not hate just facts so man up

Well you aren't me.. And if you were, i'd be you! And i'd have not bothered to comment.

And that photo isn't anywhere near maxxed out, we jacked it up so we could weld the spring hangers on.. And it just so turned out that the articulation wasn't half bad.. So a friend took a photo

It will work fine, i knew i shouldn't have posted a picture until it was done.. You people act like you know, but if you did.. You'd realise the potential.

Maybe trust me, because i'm doing it.. And you only have one front-on photo.