[Joe]

shep wrote:

yeah Spanish made retreads would be great

Why

[atari4x4]

can't you see that sarcasm typeface that shep used?

[Joe]

Doh, i had my sarcasm radar switched off

[shep]

sorry joe i forgot to stick a in. can you imagine the dodgy carcasses they are using.

[Joe]

shep wrote:

sorry joe i forgot to stick a in. can you imagine the dodgy carcasses they are using.

Can't be any worse then the chinese shit thats getting around

[ajsr]

Joe wrote:

shep wrote:

sorry joe i forgot to stick a in. can you imagine the dodgy carcasses they are using.

Can't be any worse then the chinese shit thats getting around

yep thats the worry joe.
all these cheap triangle and linglong type chinese tyres look great but what are you really driving on?
I put a set of 14ply 7.50/16 on a trailer I have ,and wore then out in 18,000 km running 50 psi.
I can't remember the brand but they were some super special the local tyre joint was onto so not really all that cheap in the end.
I put hankooks in the same size on a about double the price the next time round and the are still going strong after about 50,000 with plenty of tread left.

[TZAR]

Lets examine the retread process first so you can make a full decision based on some facts

This is the process of retreading a tyre

Tyre is made, goes on car drives for 25000-100000kms over 1 week or 8-9 years.

gets taken off rim, tyre store looks at case size, (not quality as they have to pay to dispose of it) and see that retreader will take said size tyre. Put in pile for retreader ( can sit for up to three months full of water outside.

Retreader picks up cases, takes to depot and stockpiles. Can sit outside full of water up to 1 year if low demand for that size retread.

Demand for said size increases production run begins. Cases are brought in and inspected, firstly with a visual inspection, by an experinced inspector ( Joe laughs and almost blows coffe out his nose) who looks for previous repairs, impact fractures in the sidewall, tread abnormalities, perishing and a whole range of other things that years in the industry will teach you to look for.

Then tyre is x-rayed. This isn't a full proof system but does pick up some unseen faults.

Tyre then heads to the buffing machine were all the tread is removed and the tyre is buffed down to the undertread. This depends on the skill of the operator not any complex machinery to stop at the right spot.



The tyre is then inspected again for any visual defects like protuding wires delamnation of the belts etc etc. This is again done by Eye as there is no machine which can do this

Then the tyre is sent to the building machine. A thin strip of rubber aapprox 50mm wide and 1-3 mm thick is wrapped around the tyre, until the predetermined tread depth is acchieved.



FACT NUMBER ONE. THIS PROCESS IS IDENTICAL FOR RETREAD AND REMOULD. THE REMOULD HAS THE RUBBER APPLIED ALL THE WAY TO THE BEAD AND THE RETREAD HAS THE RUBBER APPLIED ONLY FROM THE TREAD SHOULDER TO THE OTHER TRAED SHOULDER.

tHE REMOULD DOESN'T MAKE THE RETREAD ANY STONGER

[TZAR]

Then the tyre with the traed rubber applied is sent to the tyre mould. This is a high pressure high tempurature device. The tyre is presurised and this forces the tyre to exposed to massive extremes of heat. The tyre is "cooked" so that the tread rubber and the undertread rubber and the original casing alll fuse together as one.



After this process is complete the mould cure retread is sent for inspection and pressure testing

Now lets look at were this process can fail
1:-LOTS of human inspections
2:-If a hole in the casing is missed then it will allow air to get under the tread and cause failure. This failure is common BUT is normally picked up in the first ten minutes of the reatreads life. SO normally doesn't cause road failure.
3:- if the demand for cases is high then less than perfect cases will be used. So if the size is hard to get ( like 32x11.5R15 then any case will be used, not just good cases)
4:- the original tyre has just had an extra 5 -15 kgs of tread applied to it, and been exposed to massive tempuratures to fuse the rubbers together then you take it and and put it on a car and drive at 100kph the centrifigal force is incredible. this is what causes failures. about 5% of all retread failures are from the retread process. the rest are the original tyre just falling to bits cause its old and fucked.
5:- The new tyre gaureentee is exactly that. The retread gaurentee's his workmanship, and materials NOT the original casing, especially if tehy are your cases
6:- all tyres are different sizes and the mould cure retread mould is only ONE size for all of them. It just takes expeirienced operators to know what to do right.


Joe can add more if he wants but thats a pretty basic explanation of all the processes that happen and you can see that many places are open for mistakes to happen

[Joe]

ajsr wrote:

Joe wrote:

shep wrote:

sorry joe i forgot to stick a in. can you imagine the dodgy carcasses they are using.

Can't be any worse then the chinese shit thats getting around

yep thats the worry joe.
all these cheap triangle and linglong type chinese tyres look great but what are you really driving on?
I put a set of 14ply 7.50/16 on a trailer I have ,and wore then out in 18,000 km running 50 psi.
I can't remember the brand but they were some super special the local tyre joint was onto so not really all that cheap in the end.
I put hankooks in the same size on a about double the price the next time round and the are still going strong after about 50,000 with plenty of tread left.

Them tyres arn't even round

[Joe]

Tzar you pretty much summed it up with that

[atari4x4]

a driving enthusiast like the jccck wouldn't use retards

[Joe]

atari4x4 wrote:

a driving enthusiast like the jccck wouldn't use retards

Maybe not but we all know that he is one

[Gwagensteve]

Tzar, are you SURE retread-candidate tyres are X-rayed? AFAIK not even aircraft tyres are X-rayed before retreading. It would be VERY expensive.

(My dad developed an ultrasonic examination system for Aircraft tyres in the 1970's, and I've been to retread factories and I've not seen an X-ray machine... and I'm in the X-ray industry)

In any case, we run 1000kg cars, tyres at 5 psi, and pour hate all over them. I've been running with cars on retreads for years, mostly mongrels, both remould and retread. THey're been very impressive.

Personally, I have no problem with anyone running retreads on a sierra. I've never seen one fall apart, despite horrible abuse.

I wouldn't run them on a big car, and they're not my cup of tea. ( I'm not much into radials for off road use) but I don't see the problem. Retreads are proven for sierra use IMHO.

Steve.

[Chop]

I think everyone needs to go ask what tyres you used to get driven around on as a kid, retreads were rife through the 80's and into the 90's. And i can say i didnt hear to many problems with them and if someone did it would be replaced with another.

Its like all these people that wet their pants about having air bags! " oh the new car has to have air bags" fark me they werent in early cars and not everyone is dead!
People are so precious!

[ajsr]

Chop wrote:

I think everyone needs to go ask what tyres you used to get driven around on as a kid, retread were rife throught the 80's and into the 90's. And i can say i didnt hear to many problems with them and if someone did it would be replaced with another.

Its like all these people that wet their pants about having air bags! " oh the new car has to have air bags" fark me they werent in early cars and not everyone is dead!
People are so precious!

X2

[Joe]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Tzar, are you SURE retread-candidate tyres are retreaded? AFAIK not even aircraft tyres are X-rayed before retreading. It would be VERY expensive.

In any case, we run 1000kg cars, tyres at 5 psi, and pour hate all over them. I've been running with cars on retreads for years, mostly mongrels, both remould and retread. THey're been very impressive.

Personally, I have no problem with anyone running retreads on a sierra. I've never seen one fall apart, despite horrible abuse.

I wouldn't run them on a big car, and they're not my cup of tea. ( I'm not much into radials for off road use) but I don't see the problem. Retreads are proven for sierra use IMHO.

Steve.

I know of one xray machine in Australia and seen two in the Michelin factory in Thailand that are used for new tyre and Michelin retreads
All retread factorys (not just the michelin ones) have to use a nail hole detection machine that will arc out and let you know when there is any deformitys or even a tiny pin hole inside the tyre

There is a reason they don't make recaps or remoulds in Australia any more.......it's cause they are crap!!!!!!!

[ajsr]

Joe wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote:

Tzar, are you SURE retread-candidate tyres are retreaded? AFAIK not even aircraft tyres are X-rayed before retreading. It would be VERY expensive.

In any case, we run 1000kg cars, tyres at 5 psi, and pour hate all over them. I've been running with cars on retreads for years, mostly mongrels, both remould and retread. THey're been very impressive.

Personally, I have no problem with anyone running retreads on a sierra. I've never seen one fall apart, despite horrible abuse.

I wouldn't run them on a big car, and they're not my cup of tea. ( I'm not much into radials for off road use) but I don't see the problem. Retreads are proven for sierra use IMHO.

Steve.

I know of one xray machine in Australia and seen two in the Michelin factory in Thailand that are used for new tyre and Michelin retreads
All retread factorys (not just the michelin ones) have to use a nail hole detection machine that will arc out and let you know when there is any deformitys or even a tiny pin hole inside the tyre

There is a reason they don't make recaps or remoulds in Australia any more.......it's cause they are crap!!!!!!!

Not just that reason but there are so many cheap new tyres out of china ,malaysia etc its hard to justify a recap compared to cheap new

[Joe]

ajsr wrote:

Joe wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote:

Tzar, are you SURE retread-candidate tyres are retreaded? AFAIK not even aircraft tyres are X-rayed before retreading. It would be VERY expensive.

In any case, we run 1000kg cars, tyres at 5 psi, and pour hate all over them. I've been running with cars on retreads for years, mostly mongrels, both remould and retread. THey're been very impressive.

Personally, I have no problem with anyone running retreads on a sierra. I've never seen one fall apart, despite horrible abuse.

I wouldn't run them on a big car, and they're not my cup of tea. ( I'm not much into radials for off road use) but I don't see the problem. Retreads are proven for sierra use IMHO.

Steve.

I know of one xray machine in Australia and seen two in the Michelin factory in Thailand that are used for new tyre and Michelin retreads
All retread factorys (not just the michelin ones) have to use a nail hole detection machine that will arc out and let you know when there is any deformitys or even a tiny pin hole inside the tyre

There is a reason they don't make recaps or remoulds in Australia any more.......it's cause they are crap!!!!!!!

Not just that reason but there are so many cheap new tyres out of china ,malaysia etc its hard to justify a recap compared to cheap new

Thats what closed down the first shop i worked at, when i first started there in 99 we were selling 500 caps a week on a slow week by 04 we would be lucky to sell 20 a week and thats when we stoped making hot caps
I was lucky the place was half hot caps and the other half was Bandag so i got moved into the truck side of retreading

[Gwagensteve]

Sure it's not because of the importation of lots of cheap Korean/Chinese/Taiwanese tyres? retreading is labour intensive and our labour is expensive.

A "nail hole detector" (I'm guessing a kind of holiday detector) isn't anywhere near real time X-Ray equipment.

I understand Aircraft tyres use laser tomography to ensure the tyres haven't delaminated, but the air-coupled ultrasonic method my dad developed was adopted by Ansett and Goodyear in Luxembourg and then Akro, Ohio a ttheir factories.

Regardless, it's horses for courses. A Sierra doesn't need much tyre so long as it's the right size and luggy. It's not very cocplex in my book.

Steve.

[atari4x4]

[shep]

aahhh the 80s, when standing 10foot away from a truck doing donuts was safe.
fuck i miss it.

[Joe]

Ahhhh the Bandag bullet v12 twin superchargers and four turbos with NOS i heard that they soaked the tyres in oil for a couple of days before fitting them up, i dunno if there was any truth in that

[86slowsierra]

Chop wrote:

86slowsierra wrote:

i ran mongrels as my first set and they were the bomb.

have a look at these.
http://stores.ebay.com.au/Mr-Treads-4wd-tyres

People dont read much do they? i put them up above in the thread

we all know people respond to links and pics. and yes i did read it, thats why i posted it. thanks princess for jogging my memory.

[royce]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Sure it's not because of the importation of lots of cheap Korean/Chinese/Taiwanese tyres? retreading is labour intensive and our labour is expensive.

A "nail hole detector" (I'm guessing a kind of holiday detector) isn't anywhere near real time X-Ray equipment.

I understand Aircraft tyres use laser tomography to ensure the tyres haven't delaminated, but the air-coupled ultrasonic method my dad developed was adopted by Ansett and Goodyear in Luxembourg and then Akro, Ohio a ttheir factories.

Regardless, it's horses for courses. A Sierra doesn't need much tyre so long as it's the right size and luggy. It's not very cocplex in my book.

Steve.

You really need to qualify your posts by stating you lot only drive your stuff on the track and drive through simple mud all day, some kid will believe you one day and start an internet rumour

Tzar has already pointed out by running a retread you have no idea what life the tyre has already had and up here in qld at least where we have terrain that requires some thought to drive tread pattern means less and less, the rubber compound is what gets it done.

I'd hate for somebody to suffer a blow out cause they are already running pretty low pressure in a tyre that spent 10 years on an old 60 series that never moved and was hurt cause somebody on the internet said they are ok on a sierra

[86slowsierra]

royce wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote:

Sure it's not because of the importation of lots of cheap Korean/Chinese/Taiwanese tyres? retreading is labour intensive and our labour is expensive.

A "nail hole detector" (I'm guessing a kind of holiday detector) isn't anywhere near real time X-Ray equipment.

I understand Aircraft tyres use laser tomography to ensure the tyres haven't delaminated, but the air-coupled ultrasonic method my dad developed was adopted by Ansett and Goodyear in Luxembourg and then Akro, Ohio a ttheir factories.

Regardless, it's horses for courses. A Sierra doesn't need much tyre so long as it's the right size and luggy. It's not very cocplex in my book.

Steve.

You really need to qualify your posts by stating you lot only drive your stuff on the track and drive through simple mud all day, some kid will believe you one day and start an internet rumour

Tzar has already pointed out by running a retread you have no idea what life the tyre has already had and up here in qld at least where we have terrain that requires some thought to drive tread pattern means less and less, the rubber compound is what gets it done.

I'd hate for somebody to suffer a blow out cause they are already running pretty low pressure in a tyre that spent 10 years on an old 60 series that never moved and was hurt cause somebody on the internet said they are ok on a sierra

everyone on the internet is a lair. that could be the case for TZAR as well. whos to know.

Also QLD wishes it had terrain like Vic.

[Fatzook]

86slowsierra wrote:

Also QLD wishes it had terrain like Vic.

Only the snow

You can keep the rest of the muddy shit

[TZAR]

86slowsierra wrote:

everyone on the internet is a lair. that could be the case for TZAR as well. whos to know.

Also QLD wishes it had terrain like Vic.

Hell yeah I lie like a mother fucka.

But I spent 13 years in the tyre game doing everything solids,truck, car forklift you name it we did it

Royce is from the auto trade as well. We are both smart and have moved on cause the pay is shit and the customers are worse

Remember if you want retreads thats fine, its your choice

[TZAR]

[want33s]

shep wrote:

aahhh the 80s, when standing 10foot away from a truck doing donuts was safe.
fuck i miss it.

TEN feet away???? How do you expect to see the action from so far away?

[jonno_racing]

haha i saw the bandag bullet at about that distance in a tire shope just down from work about 4 years ago! sweet!!! that guy can drive tho.. he was doing circles around a pole that was holding the roof up!!!!

i will add it has x2 2stroke silver 92's 2stroke diesel twin charged FTW

it also looks mad in the smoke with the huge flames out of the turbo's