[samstaszuk]

Hey guys noticed the other day the car was running rough mate and i had a look and it seems is the coil pack. Whats the best go replace it with a like for like or is it possible to run a larger one and use it to produce a larger spark?

Cheers

[Ben_Sierra]

You can get one from super cheap, repco, any parts store... There is no real benefit of a "larger coil".

[SuziBlu]

I contest that, a million times over.

Get a bigger coil, open you plugs to suit, ie, from 0.8mm to 1.1 or 1.2mm, and feel the difference.

[Ben_Sierra]

SuziBlu wrote:

I contest that, a million times over.

Get a bigger coil, open you plugs to suit, ie, from 0.8mm to 1.1 or 1.2mm, and feel the difference.

Show me the dyno sheets and I'll believe it...

[31zook]

GT40

ask for one of those and you will be right

[SuziBlu]

Ben_Sierra wrote:

SuziBlu wrote:

I contest that, a million times over.

Get a bigger coil, open you plugs to suit, ie, from 0.8mm to 1.1 or 1.2mm, and feel the difference.

Show me the dyno sheets and I'll believe it...

You want me to dyno a 1.3l

What starts a fire better, a match, or a flame thrower ?

Dull red small spark, or a vivid blue long spark ?

Why do all the late model cars run very high powered coils?

[royce]

SuziBlu wrote:

I contest that, a million times over.

Get a bigger coil, open you plugs to suit, ie, from 0.8mm to 1.1 or 1.2mm, and feel the difference.

we've been over this, havent I proven your theorys incorrect a million times over too

bigger gap = more voltage to fire the gap, if the coil provides it then a bigger one wont matter for shit

funny story, forever I have used 1.1mm gap pugs in my vit, recently I changed to teh stock 0.8mm gap

uses less fuel, cruises at highway speed a hell of a lot better, who would og guessed it

[SuziBlu]

[royce]

[SuziBlu]

Ok, we don't agree, cool.

[royce]

No in a way we agree, what differs

a coil is only part of the ignition system and will only work as good as the rest of it, otherwise you wouldnt be trying out a 6AL box

having more spark than you can use is a waste, not making more power

[JrZook]

royce wrote:

having more spark than you can use is a waste, not making more power

Correct! Not to mention the extra stress on the rest of the HV electrical system and plug electrode wear.

[SuziBlu]

JrZook wrote:

royce wrote:

having more spark than you can use is a waste, not making more power

Correct! Not to mention the extra stress on the rest of the HV electrical system and plug electrode wear.

Here is where I disagree, I have forever upgrade my cars, from inlet to outlet, ignition suspension brakes etc.

I truly believe that a good ignition system makes for far better performance, you mentioned before, how can something make more power, ie spark, when it start with the same input power, simply, ohmes resistance, the less resistance, the more power gets thru.

Plug electrode wear, sorry, not worth a comment.

If you have a 20,000 volt 0.3 amp 75 joule coil, this will trho a spark, yes, and maybe, just maybe it will jump a 1.3mm gap properly, but it will be a lot less than a 40,000 volt, 1 amp 135 joule coil.

Royce, you say that putting on a bigger carby makes no noticeable power gain.

When I had my bigblock, 460ci, I took it to the dyno to get tuned, the man looked and said, you need a far bigger carby, this will give you much better performance and at cruising revs, a lot less fuel usage. We played, upgraded the carby, upgraded the ignition, I had already installed extractors and a twin 3" system. The power gain was sensational, towing a tri axle 35' trihull boat at 120k, put your foot down and take off.

Different to a 1.3l, yes, but the principle is the same, upgrade, do not replace, I will get the 6al installed, see how she goes, next will be to get the dizzy out, and install softer springs so as ultimate timing comes in much faster.

Your coil is built into your dizzy, so it is a stocker, opening the gap or getting bigger plugs only weakened the spark, less power not more.

If you drive normal, there will be improvements, not much but it will be there, if you are more into WOT then you will see a marked improvement.

When i first started with the 1.3l I thought it was as sick as an old mole, after playing with it a lot, I can now spin my 31" baja claws up to 3rd in my fun zone, even 2nd will spin on dirt roads, with stock gears.

[royce]

No wonder you get banned everywhere, most of that post is fluff

It is proven scientific measureable fact, you need a certain voltage to make electricity jump through air, it does not matter how much you have available, you only need so much, bigger the gap the more you need to overcome it but you can never force more through.

Your ohms law comment is also wrong, you have X volts and X amps going in, this is limited by the system voltage and how much current the transistor switching can pass, volts by amps will give you watts, now take that watts and divide by your secondary voltage is your amps, go higher windings for more volts and your amps drops, you cant bend the numbers around this at all and might be why I get better economy and cruise now

the reason your 6AL will work is it does a lot of different things to the low voltage input to the coil

it raises the input voltage up quite a bit above 12 volts
it is a different switching arrangement so switches a lot higher amps
it has a higher dwell (time its allowing current to pass through the coil so the coil can build a higher flux
it doesnt fire the coil once per power stroke but many times, so ignites the mixture a few times

All that makes for a significent and useable spark increase, whether any of us are capable of building an engine that can make any use of it is another thing

[SuziBlu]

HA, i only get banned from that other site, that just says "search"

Same as I buggerize around with fuel, adding stuff to it to make it better, I play a lot, I am forever sticking my head under the bonnet and tweaking things trying for improvements.

MSD fires 20 times per spark cycle below 3,000 rpm, I have a 5 series, but that is not as hot as the 6 series. This does make a big performance gain, really hanging to get home so as to play with the 6 and see difference.

The 6 series has a mated coil, the 5 series has a GT40T coil, with by the way is a coil that is ok to be mated with the MSD ignition, so says the MSD technicians.


I dont know really, but my bum and where i can go tells me that I am on the right track, mate has a sierra, vit carb, extractors, with a 2" system, 29" tyres, stock gears, and he has no chance of keeping up with my stock gears and 31" tyres. I must be doing something right.

[JrZook]

SuziBlu wrote:

JrZook wrote:

royce wrote:

having more spark than you can use is a waste, not making more power

Correct! Not to mention the extra stress on the rest of the HV electrical system and plug electrode wear.

Here is where I disagree, I have forever upgrade my cars, from inlet to outlet, ignition suspension brakes etc.

I truly believe that a good ignition system makes for far better performance, you mentioned before, how can something make more power, ie spark, when it start with the same input power, simply, ohmes resistance, the less resistance, the more power gets thru.

Plug electrode wear, sorry, not worth a comment.

If you have a 20,000 volt 0.3 amp 75 joule coil, this will trho a spark, yes, and maybe, just maybe it will jump a 1.3mm gap properly, but it will be a lot less than a 40,000 volt, 1 amp 135 joule coil.

Royce, you say that putting on a bigger carby makes no noticeable power gain.

When I had my bigblock, 460ci, I took it to the dyno to get tuned, the man looked and said, you need a far bigger carby, this will give you much better performance and at cruising revs, a lot less fuel usage. We played, upgraded the carby, upgraded the ignition, I had already installed extractors and a twin 3" system. The power gain was sensational, towing a tri axle 35' trihull boat at 120k, put your foot down and take off.

Different to a 1.3l, yes, but the principle is the same, upgrade, do not replace, I will get the 6al installed, see how she goes, next will be to get the dizzy out, and install softer springs so as ultimate timing comes in much faster.

Your coil is built into your dizzy, so it is a stocker, opening the gap or getting bigger plugs only weakened the spark, less power not more.

If you drive normal, there will be improvements, not much but it will be there, if you are more into WOT then you will see a marked improvement.

When i first started with the 1.3l I thought it was as sick as an old mole, after playing with it a lot, I can now spin my 31" baja claws up to 3rd in my fun zone, even 2nd will spin on dirt roads, with stock gears.

If your doing radical mods altering your fuel delivery, combustion pressures and burn rates then yes you may need to increase your coil output power to deal with spark blowout and lack of spark power at high rpms.

What have you done to your 1.3 to make if such a powerhouse? I had one with the weber and extractors with the stock coil no issues at all. Stock coil died from age so I replaced it with a GT40 coil because it was at the right price at the right time. Increased power?? Well over my dead coil it was 100% improvement

Ive played with stock coils and I have a circuit here that make make stock coils throw 12cm arc's constantly!! Does that mean the stock coil is weak and not powerful enough?? The majority of any power increase, ignition wise comes within the alternation of the timing profile. Now if you were to put a stock coil on and immediately change it with a super coil, changed nothing else and noticed or the dyno even slowed the slightest increase in power id say that would be down to the slight ignition advance you would get from the lower ohm coil charging and discharging quicker.

I have played with the stock dizzy's, heck i also built a full digital ignition system for teh 1.3 from scratch. To say that you are getting noticeable gains (seat of pants dyno)from a new high power coil (with extra spark gap) over a stock one that is in fine working order is pretty interesting.

Now look at the flip side, you get a super dooper low ohm mega coil, it gives you more spark energy, where does that energy come from?? It comes from the electrical system, which gets it from the battery, which gets charged by the alternation, which ultimately
puts more load on the engine.... Something to think about...

Back to the OP's question( soz about the in depth slightly off track convo). He does not seem to have a super modified engine, well modified enough to warrant an increase in coil output power. A stock replacement or equivalent will work fine!

Dan

[SuziBlu]

[SuziBlu]

JrZook wrote:

Now look at the flip side, you get a super dooper low ohm mega coil, it gives you more spark energy, where does that energy come from?? It comes from the electrical system, which gets it from the battery, which gets charged by the alternation, which ultimately
puts more load on the engine.... Something to think about...
Dan

This can be said for turbos or blowers, yes you get more power, but it puts more load on the engine ... Something to think about...

There is no such thing as a free lunch, perpetual motion machines are a fantasy, some people go the route of LED lighting so as to draw less current, so more available power, or, same revs less fuel consumption.

Anyways, this is like arguing whose god is better, christians or muslims, neither the twain shall meet.

[JrZook]

[SuziBlu]

No idea, dunno where I said that, what I did say, was my toy can do my mates, he has a few different things, on his donk, I have a few more, he has 29" tyres, i have 31s, he does not see my dust, as it has settled long time before he gets there.

An AFR of 13 means your running rich, around 12% out of optimum, maybe if you had a bigger coil, and wider gap in your plugs you would have had a better burn, and so either better power, or better fuel milage.

[royce]

13:1 isnt rich


This is why we are also heading down to SA next year, to see this beast

[atari4x4]

royce wrote:

This is why we are also heading down to SA next year, to see this beast & so Gus can pick up his $1000

fixed

[SuziBlu]

14.7 to 1 is optimum, 13:1 is less air, more fuel, she is rich.

I just hope n pray that I have her all done by the time u mob get there.

She goes very well now, but I want her to go even weller.

lol, want the wt diffs with 5.12s installed, lockers fore and aft, YJ spring setup, or maybe just RUF.

Also, im having overheating probs, runnin in very soft sand is not too much different to running in mud, so I am needing to do a bit of changes up front, there is no external shrouding, work out something there, but also, look into a redblock torana radiator, mate is an ex radiator man, he sold me this little toy, rang him and asked, he sed, look for early (gtr) style 3 core.

[royce]

no, 14.7 is theoretical optimum

12.7 is closer to mixture that will obtain maximum power (nothing is 100% efficient remember)

stick a vit rad in, I couldnt make mine overheat in sand no matter what, even towing a GU wagon, that was towing a jetski

[SuziBlu]

atari4x4 wrote:

royce wrote:

This is why we are also heading down to SA next year, to see this beast & so Gus can pick up his $1000

fixed

Hahaaa, not on your nelly.

Still stand but mate.

[SuziBlu]

royce wrote:

no, 14.7 is theoretical optimum

12.7 is closer to mixture that will obtain maximum power (nothing is 100% efficient remember)

stick a vit rad in, I couldnt make mine overheat in sand no matter what, even towing a GU wagon, that was towing a jetski

I have spoken to radiator people, an they hate plastic end caps, I am not a radiator man, so no idea, maybe they make more out of the others.

This looks like it could do the job, if it handle an XU1 and an A9X, recon as it just might handle a 1.3


Looked hard in tech section, lot of pics on installing a Vit Radiator, easy as, just been warned against them by the "experts"

[royce]

Mines 15 years old, done 290000km, seems good enough to me

Rad people and I assume rad people in your little area wouldnt like em cause they are harder to service and its easier to throw em out and fit a new one

I cant see your link here but things to remember with rads are big surface area and airflow wins over capacity and number of cores, especially at low speed

[SuziBlu]

hmmm linky no work.

Try it the ole cut n paste bonehead method.


http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Holden-Ford-Mazd ... 1869wt_869

[royce]

nah when I say I cant, I mean I am at work and some nerd will spring up out of nowhere and go all internet police on my ass, again

[SuziBlu]

lol ahh ha
Its a biggun, lots of face-surface area.