[matty]

hi all i have a seirra with a 1.6 vitara sohc motor ported and pollished head and turbo but getting blow by past rings high crank case pressure and keep blowing head gasget at high revs can anyone help i am only running 9 pound of boost is there a better motor option like like a 1.3 twin cam or internal problem in my motor thanks all.s

[slyvan1]

has it been tuned, if timing is to advance it will cause it to pre ignite. if it doesn't have a boost retard in the distributor could be ur problem. is it intercooled.
witht the blow by, did anything get change to the engine breathers or pcv. also if return line is not free that can cuse smoke problems.
might be time for a rebuild

[matty]

hi slyvan1 yes it has a front mount intercooler do not know what if at all they did to the breathing system and it has a apexi mass airflow converter basicly just tricking the cars computers air fuel mixter setings runs well most of the time and reliable but i want more power 100 hp at the weels but want more.

[Fatzook]

matty wrote:

hi slyvan1 yes it has a front mount intercooler do not know what if at all they did to the breathing system and it has a apexi mass airflow converter basicly just tricking the cars computers air fuel mixter setings runs well most of the time and reliable but i want more power 100 hp at the weels but want more.

Time to crack open the wallet then. Ditch the G16 and fit a 4AGZE. 120-130HP at wheels standard. Then you can wind up the boost from there.

[matty]

will the 4agze fit eg. drive line ,wire harnes, etc or is it a full swap over in other words big job.

[xedent]

Big job

[matty]

i think the g16b sounds good for now or i will try a 1.3 gti swift turbo motor allready done and try to make it fit but thanks for your help post some pics of the beast as soon as i work out how .

[shakes]

matty wrote:

will the 4agze fit eg. drive line ,wire harnes, etc or is it a full swap over in other words big job.

big job. But will be cheaper and easier than trying 3 other bolt in engines with similar results.. easy 110rwkw out of the box with a couple of very cheap mods.

[MacDaddy]

matty wrote:

hi all i have a seirra with a 1.6 vitara sohc motor ported and pollished head and turbo but getting blow by past rings high crank case pressure and keep blowing head gasget at high revs can anyone help i am only running 9 pound of boost is there a better motor option like like a 1.3 twin cam or internal problem in my motor thanks all.s

Sounds like 9 pound boost is too much... from reading other Turbo threads, i think 6 pound was the max, before it damages things...

[Brett]

if your getting lots blow buy its your rings are stuffed or you have broken a piston. on stock internals i wouldn't go any more than 7 psi unless its been decompressed.

when is your set up coming on boost?

[matty]

sounds like i need full rebuild with forged iternals and maybe upgraded computer for a better tune . the setup runs fine but just needs some tweeks here and there does anyone know of a good motor rebuilder who knows suzukis in perth thanks . its coming into boost at about 3000rpm thanks brett.

[Brett]

sounds like it, you can get forged pistons for it. think they are honda ones

i'd be matching your turbo size to the engine so its on boost earlier and more drivable. if you keep it under 6 psi stock pistons will hold up fine.

what turbo are you running and what size dump pipe? some times a bigger pipe will make it come on boost quicker but not very often.

[Fatzook]

Sorry matty but it sounds like you are trying to make lemonadade out of lemons.

The G16 motor is REALLY not suited to forced induction. It can be done at low boost with relative success, but it seems yo have overshot this point. Making it worse is your further desire to find more power.

Honestly how much money do you want to throw at this? Because it will take many thousands to do the neccessary work to strengthen the bottom end for up to 14psi boost. Have a read through 00zuk's build. He has had ALOT of work done by a pro engine shop. Not sure on exact costs but ballpark would be around $3k just for bottom end prep. And he gave the engine builder a very sensible target figure for expected power. (maybe 100 rwkw?) He then made his own inlet plenum and heaps of other supporting mods.

On top of all this the G16B block does not have the strength that is needed for a forced induction application, and lacks the webbing/ bracing and internal oil porting that many other OEM turbo motors have. We won't even mention the G16B head.....

If you are serious about more power, look for a motor that has your desired power level in standard form. You will get good factory power and torque curves, OEM ECU and reliability.

JMO
Pete

[MrRocky]

think 5psi is max for standard computer, upgrade computer to aftermarket one and you will gain some headroom but engine internals and timing control will be your major foes, most of the guys on www.redlinegti.com that run built 1.3 engines use vitara pistons to drop compression ratio a bit to allow for more boost, unsure of what they do for the 1.6

[Fatzook]

MrRocky wrote:

think 5psi is max for standard computer, upgrade computer to aftermarket one and you will gain some headroom but engine internals and timing control will be your major foes, most of the guys on www.redlinegti.com that run built 1.3 engines use vitara pistons to drop compression ratio a bit to allow for more boost, unsure of what they do for the 1.6

Prey.

[JrZook]

Fatzook wrote:

Sorry matty but it sounds like you are trying to make lemonadade out of lemons.

The G16 motor is REALLY not suited to forced induction. It can be done at low boost with relative success, but it seems yo have overshot this point. Making it worse is your further desire to find more power.

Honestly how much money do you want to throw at this? Because it will take many thousands to do the neccessary work to strengthen the bottom end for up to 14psi boost. Have a read through 00zuk's build. He has had ALOT of work done by a pro engine shop. Not sure on exact costs but ballpark would be around $3k just for bottom end prep. And he gave the engine builder a very sensible target figure for expected power. (maybe 100 rwkw?) He then made his own inlet plenum and heaps of other supporting mods.

On top of all this the G16B block does not have the strength that is needed for a forced induction application, and lacks the webbing/ bracing and internal oil porting that many other OEM turbo motors have. We won't even mention the G16B head.....

If you are serious about more power, look for a motor that has your desired power level in standard form. You will get good factory power and torque curves, OEM ECU and reliability.

JMO
Pete

Speaking of which, I wonder if those ceramic heat reflection coatings on the head/piston would help to an extent? Im most likely going this route with that aircooled turbo project of mine

[Fatzook]

That may prevent the pistons melting, but the heat has to go somewhere. Given that the G16 has steel chamber sleves, it will retain a bit more heat than an ally pot would. And if the pistons were coated it may reflect more heat towards the sleeves.

[oozuk]

Fatzook wrote:

That may prevent the pistons melting, but the heat has to go somewhere. Given that the G16 has steel chamber sleves, it will retain a bit more heat than an ally pot would. And if the pistons were coated it may reflect more heat towards the sleeves.

The idea of the ceramic coating was to help resist detonation, basically cast pistons are porous (look at them under a microscope they look like a surface of a brick *so im told) this can cause detonation and heat build up.
By coating the piston crowns there is less heat soak into the piston and less chance of detonation.

It was only a small cost whilst the engine was apart ($200 for 4 pistons i think) they coated from the top of the piston to the 1st ring land.

whilst i invested a LOT of money into the engine, it was only half of the picture, it would of been a total waste of money with out the proper fuel system and tuning to stop it going bang.

[Fatzook]

Totally agree Steve.

If its not too intrusive, could you give the kind people of AZ an idea of what a PROPER turbo retofit on a G16B will run them? I have my suspiscions

[Rusho]

It would be interesting to know....I want to see if my guess is close

[MrRocky]

my estimate
fuel system $1000 $1500 with injector upgrade
ecu upgrade $2000
engine rebuilds with fored pistons and shotpeened rods $3-3500
intercooler + piping $5-600
manifold and turbo $1200 assuming secondhandie turbo
tuning and dyno time $500
fittings and misc $500

[oozuk]

Fatzook wrote:

Totally agree Steve.

If its not too intrusive, could you give the kind people of AZ an idea of what a PROPER turbo retofit on a G16B will run them? I have my suspiscions

sure

spent $2400 (mates rates) for an engine rebuild that included the following
*block bored .20 thou
*Rods checked for straightness and shot peened
*crank ground .10 thou
*hi silica content cast pistons used, Piston crowns machined to reduce compression and ceramic coated, Rings all gapped and filed with a proper ring file
*whole bottom end balanced from harmonic balancer to clutch pressure plate
*Cyl head serviced, crack and pressure tested
*minor port work in bowls
*special cut on back of valves to increase cylinder scavenging and flow
*minor port work in combustion chambers to remove quench points and other hot spots that can cause detonation.
*all new bearings and gasket kit
that was just on the engine

Fuel system
*Walbro intank fuel pump $220
* dash 6 XRP braided fuel line for send and return line, plus alloy fittings $200-300 give or take
*Sard fuel pressure regulator $220
*Fuel pressure gauge in fuel rail $65
*RB20 nissan injectors S/H plus servicing of injectors $250 from memory
*haltech E6K programmable ECU S/H $500 and then wired it myself and did the base tune myself to start it and move it onto a trailer
*P.I.T.S. Dyno tune $700 and worth every cent !!

Turbo was a Garrett T-25 from a CA18DET i got given to me from bro in law, but i'ed budget $300 for a good one S/H
*exahust manafold was made from Steam pipe bends and a laser cut face plate $120 approx and a few man hrs
*intake manifold $100 for alloy welding, $ 80 in Alloy materials and about 3 weeks of after hrs work in man hrs getting things done on it and working with a die grinder (never wanna make another one again biggest stuff around ever but worth it)
*intercooler $280
* Stainless Steel intercooler and intake piping $ 180 approx from memory and BIG Favor owed for Tig work to weld it all up
*Patrol TD42 Pre-cleaner airbox $free K&N filter to suit $110
*3" exhaust system down to 2.5" mandrel bent made it myself $150 materials plus $240 for twin muffler

Possible I've missed something, I can't put a price on the 100's of man Hrs to put this all together over the years, i would not wanna pay for it let me tell you.

Geeze, i think it would be the first time in a long time ive sat down and worked out the approxmate costs, I added upto $6215 !!!!
Geeze to think the other mods i could of done if i didn't go down the turbo route....

[Fatzook]

So thats over $6K with you doing most of the labour, and calling in favours. So my guess was pretty close then

[oozuk]

Fatzook wrote:

So thats over $6K with you doing most of the labour, and calling in favours. So my guess was pretty close then

yeah it would be frightening to see what it would cost if i knew farrk all about cars and if i asked a workshop that i wanted my car to go fully sick
Wouldn't have much change from 10K

[tanshi]

what was the end Kw result?

[Fatzook]

tanshi wrote:

what was the end Kw result?

think it was around 140rwHP.

[Fatzook]

Fatzook wrote:

tanshi wrote:

what was the end Kw result?

think it was around 140rwHP.

EDIT:

oozuk wrote:

136.5HP ATW @10psi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aYbgcGAYTU&feature=channel

[MacDaddy]

matty wrote:

does anyone know of a good motor rebuilder who knows suzukis in perth thanks

Suzistore would be your best bet... if you want to go down that track...

[oozuk]

Fatzook wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

tanshi wrote:

what was the end Kw result?

think it was around 140rwHP.

EDIT:

oozuk wrote:

136.5HP ATW @10psi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aYbgcGAYTU&feature=channel

Correct It made 142 but 2deg of total timing was pulled out as a reserve against poor quality fuel and the end result was 136.5HP, whilst it doesn't sound like alot, it's plenty quick enough to fry a set of 33's and put a smile on your face

[FHA57]

have u spaced the head to lower the comp and have u got enough fuel in the tune? what computer do u run? sounds like could be cooling also maybe u need an electric water pump or sumthing or bigger radiator 9 pound doesnt mean shit depending on the turbo for instance a t28 running 9 pound compared to a gt35r running 9 pound is a massive flow difference lol. im guessing ur turbo is only little tho but ide check af ratios on a dyno but sounds like to much comp in the head and not enough fuel top end to me.