[31zook]

hey guys, i have searched and this has been done to death i know, but i just have to double check as i want to pull my car off the road for a weekend not a month.....

I have a 1.6 16V block, will 8V pistons fit?
Do i use a 16V or 8V timing cover?
Can i swap over my swift crank pully, swift water pump and ford alt? (new alt bracket, or can i use the sierra/vit one?)
What belt do i use for timing? (T100?)
What timing sprokets do i use?
What head gaskit do i use?

if anyone can see something i've missed lemme know

reason, i have a rebuilt head (down to the rocker rods) with a ground cam, and a 1.6 16V TBI all wired up. The ecu is over fueling on cold start (pre set by the ecu) so it's as good as a carby when cold. Was hoping to build a lowish compression bottom end to suit a turbo

cheers

[BlueSuzy]

zooker/Geoff had a 1.6 carb block, 16v pistons, 16v efi head and stock wiring in his green lwb

[31zook]

so the pistons will swap between each other it seems.....

[BlueSuzy]

He would of ran the pistons to clear the valves

[want33s]

31zook wrote:

hey guys, i have searched and this has been done to death i know, but i just have to double check as i want to pull my car off the road for a weekend not a month.....

I have a 1.6 16V block, will 8V pistons fit? YES if you use an 8V head.
Do i use a 16V or 8V timing cover? Neither... See Dmac's build.. A hybrid must be made.
Can i swap over my swift crank pully, swift water pump and ford alt? (new alt bracket, or can i use the sierra/vit one?) Either, take your pick.
What belt do i use for timing? (T100?) Yep.
What timing sprokets do i use? 1.3
What head gaskit do i use? 1.3

if anyone can see something i've missed lemme know

reason, i have a rebuilt head (down to the rocker rods) with a ground cam, and a 1.6 16V TBI all wired up. The ecu is over fueling on cold start (pre set by the ecu) so it's as good as a carby when cold. Was hoping to build a lowish compression bottom end to suit a turbo

cheers

[31zook]

jas your a champ, thanks, ill start working on parts

[jdk81]

Umm have to correct things here.

31zook wrote:

hey guys, i have searched and this has been done to death i know, but i just have to double check as i want to pull my car off the road for a weekend not a month.....

I have a 1.6 16V block, will 8V pistons fit? 16v pistons fit both, 8v pistons only for 8v head
Do i use a 16V or 8V timing cover? the g16a timing cover will fit
Can i swap over my swift crank pully, swift water pump and ford alt? (new alt bracket, or can i use the sierra/vit one?) g16a water pump, then will need vitara multi rib pulley, keep the rest
What belt do i use for timing? (T100?) g16a sqaure toothed belt
What timing sprokets do i use? g13a crank sproket
What head gaskit do i use? g13a

you will need g16a water pump (neither sierra or swift will fit)
you will need vitara multi rib pulley
you need the timing tensioner bracket with the dongle on it. Hard to exlain, its off the g16a's.

Change the crank timing pulley from 1.3 to the 1.6, when using 1.6 head. You then need the timing belt for a g16a (square lugs I believe).
You reuse the sierra steel alt bracket

you will also need a length of rubber hose - to lengthen the piece between the water pipe to underside of intake manifold.

I did this mod in January - lazy write up is there
http://www.auszookers.com/index.php?nam ... ic&t=18350

[Ben_Sierra]

jdk81 wrote:

Umm have to correct things here.

31zook wrote:

hey guys, i have searched and this has been done to death i know, but i just have to double check as i want to pull my car off the road for a weekend not a month.....

I have a 1.6 16V block, will 8V pistons fit? 16v pistons fit both, 8v pistons only for 8v block
Do i use a 16V or 8V timing cover? the g16a timing cover will fit
Can i swap over my swift crank pully, swift water pump and ford alt? (new alt bracket, or can i use the sierra/vit one?) g16a water pump, then will need vitara multi rib pulley, keep the rest
What belt do i use for timing? (T100?) g16a sqaure toothed belt
What timing sprokets do i use? g13a crank sproket
What head gaskit do i use? g13a

you will need g16a water pump (neither sierra or swift will fit)
you will need vitara multi rib pulley
you need the timing tensioner bracket with the dongle on it. Hard to exlain, its off the g16a's.

Change the crank timing pulley from 1.3 to the 1.6, when using 1.6 head. You then need the timing belt for a g16a (square lugs I believe).
You reuse the sierra steel alt bracket

you will also need a length of rubber hose - to lengthen the piece between the water pipe to underside of intake manifold.

I did this mod in January - lazy write up is there
http://www.auszookers.com/index.php?nam ... ic&t=18350

Um, if the 16v piston fit an 8v block, how to 8v pistons not fit a 16v block? Either they are the same size or they aren't...

[mnemonix]

The recessing for valves is different between pistons. They fit the block, but they don't clear the head.

[Ben_Sierra]

mnemonix wrote:

The recessing for valves is different between pistons. They fit the block, but they don't clear the head.

Which is exactly what Jas said, before he was corrected...

[Damo]

Just throwing this out there, is there a difference in the bore dia for g13 and g16 head gaskets?

The bore is of the 1.3 and 1.6 blocks is 74mm and 75mm respectively. I would have thought the gasket bore sizes would be different too, and consequently would go with a g16 head gasket.

[SierraDan]

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=639274

[jdk81]

Ben_Sierra wrote:

mnemonix wrote:

The recessing for valves is different between pistons. They fit the block, but they don't clear the head.

Which is exactly what Jas said, before he was corrected...

Yeah I didnt explain that properly, wasnt correcting it.
I was moreso correcting the other information.

[oozuk]

Damo wrote:

Just throwing this out there, is there a difference in the bore dia for g13 and g16 head gaskets?

The bore is of the 1.3 and 1.6 blocks is 74mm and 75mm respectively. I would have thought the gasket bore sizes would be different too, and consequently would go with a g16 head gasket.

It's accually 74.5mm for G13 and 75 for G16 I'm pretty sure that's STD spec bore sizes

[jdk81]

SierraDan wrote:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=639274

Great link btw... just wish he finished it

[31zook]

jdk81, does what your saying work with a 1.3 head? or did you do the write up for a 1.6 8v head?

[jdk81]

It is the g13 head on a g16 block.

[31zook]

thanks

[jdk81]

More information
End Results
If you use a 8v head, and 16v pistons, no matter which combination you are using, it will reduce the compression ratio.


1.6 with 8v pistons + 1.3 8v head = comp ratio of 8.9

1.6 with 16v pistons + 1.3 8v head = comp ratio of 8.43 (need to machine 0.83mm to get a CR of 8.9 or leave it and boost it).


This was done using the equation
CR =( (pi()/4)*s*b^2 + V)/V
Where CR = comp ratio. s = stroke, b = bore, and V = Volume compressed.
And the following data was used and created. Found some online, and calculated results confirmed the volumes provided to an acceptable level.

g13a
Vc = 41.1 cc
Bore = 7.4cm
Stroke =7.55cm
CR = 8.9
Cyl head volumes = 32.2
(volume of air between piston and cyl head) 41.1-32.2 = 8.9cc

g13b
Vc= 38.2 cc
bore = 7.4 cm
stroke = 7.55 cm
CR = 9.5
Cyl head volumes = 25.5
(volume of air between piston and cyl head) 38.2-25.5 = 12.7cc

g16a
Vc = 50.33 cc
bore = 7.5 cm
stroke = 9cm
CR = 8.9
Cyl head volumes = 32.2
(volume of air between piston and cyl head) 50.33-32.2 = 18.13cc

g16b
Vc = 46.78 cc
bore = 7.5 cm
stroke = 9cm
CR = 9.5
Cyl head volumes = 25.5
(volume of air between piston and cyl head) 46.78-25.5 = 21.28cc

[31zook]

cheers james, is 8.9 low enuff for a SC/turbo?

[jdk81]

I couldn't tell you to be honest.
The general hearsay is that under 7 psi is fine on stock internals and stock comp ratio.

Perhaps the swift forums will have better info. Theres only a handful on this forum that run SC/turbos.

[JrZook]

31zook wrote:

cheers james, is 8.9 low enuff for a SC/turbo?

Yep

[31zook]

cool, i might start looking for a SC

[JrZook]

31zook wrote:

reason, i have a rebuilt head (down to the rocker rods) with a ground cam, and a 1.6 16V TBI all wired up. The ecu is over fueling on cold start (pre set by the ecu) so it's as good as a carby when cold.

I reckon there's something wrong there. Thought there were quite a few running the 1.6tbi on the 1.3 with no issues at all. Is it just on cold start?

[jdk81]

JrZook wrote:

31zook wrote:

reason, i have a rebuilt head (down to the rocker rods) with a ground cam, and a 1.6 16V TBI all wired up. The ecu is over fueling on cold start (pre set by the ecu) so it's as good as a carby when cold.

I reckon there's something wrong there. Thought there were quite a few running the 1.6tbi on the 1.3 with no issues at all. Is it just on cold start?

Good call.

[31zook]

jdk81 wrote:

JrZook wrote:

31zook wrote:

reason, i have a rebuilt head (down to the rocker rods) with a ground cam, and a 1.6 16V TBI all wired up. The ecu is over fueling on cold start (pre set by the ecu) so it's as good as a carby when cold.

I reckon there's something wrong there. Thought there were quite a few running the 1.6tbi on the 1.3 with no issues at all. Is it just on cold start?

Good call.

hmm, layton is the only other 1.3/1.6 tbi combo that i know works and his is an 8V..... if you have any ideas on how i can better my cold start then sure i would love to hear em, i was pretty sure it was just how it's set..... and yes, my cold start is the only crap bit, when she is reading off of the 02 sensor it's puring at 800rpm.....

[jdk81]

Some SC info for peoples i.e. Josh
Don't rely on any of this information. Use your better judgement, because if you follow any of this information and your sh*t f*cks up... too bad. It is not my problem

Please note: This is entirely based on theory, looking up specs and doing calcs. If you have actual experience, please share.
If your mum's brother's uncle's sister's cousin's sister's step son's mom had a fully sick SC and it went tits.. go f*ck yourself, I dont wanna know.

Summary - AMR500 is probably most suited to 5 psi in the 1.6 sierra application, considering efficiency and low rev range boost. The negative aspect of this is that at high engine rpms, the SC wont be working very efficiently.
So get yourself a small intercooler.
Pulley size for AMR500 is to be (Crank pulley diam)/2.144

1st step determine volumetric flow rate of 1.6 engine
(Engine Litres/min @ 0 Psi )
Engine capacity x maximum engine Rpm. E.g. 1.6 litres x 6,500 rpm = 10,400 litres/minute. This is divided by two because it is a four stroke.
Thus the engine requires 10,400/2 = 5,200 litres/min @ 0psi boost


Second step, find the boost ratio
Add the boost pressure desired (5 Psi) for the engine to 14.7 Psi (atmospheric pressure).
(5 psi boost desired +14.7 =19.7 psi)
Divide this answer by 14.7 and this gives the boost pressure ratio. (19.7/14.7=1.34) This is the boost pressure ratio above atmospheric pressure.

Third step, Free air requirements @ desired boost
Multiply the boost ratio by the litres/minute obtained for 0 Psi and you get the actual air requirements in Litres/min for the engine at that boost.
5200 litres/min X 1.34 = 6968 litres/min for 5Psi boost.

Some supercharger info

Eaton m45 = 0.75 l/rev
Safe operation rpm 14,000 rpm
Max rpm 16,000 rpm
21cm L, 16 cm W, 12.5 cm H

AMR500 = 0.5L/rev
Safe operating rpm max continuous is 16,000rpm
Max rpm 18,000 rpm
17cm L, 18cm W, 13cm H

SC12 = 1.2L/rev
Safe operating rpm max continuous rpm 12,000 rpm
Max rpm 14,000
27cm L, 21cm W and 15cm H
SC14 = 1.42 L/rev
Safe operating max continuous rpm 10,000 rpm
Max rpm 13,000 rpm
31cm L, 21cm W and 15cm H


Fourth step, determine supercharger rotor speed and check rpm within safe operating ranges
To determine rotor speed divide the desired air flow by the swept volume of the supercharger.
Desired air flow = 6968 L/min
AMR500 = 6968/.5 = 13936 rpm.
M45 6968/.75 = 9291 rpm Note:
SC12 6968/1.2 = 5807 rpm
SC14 6968/1.42 = 4907 rpm

Fifth step, determine rev ratios and work out your required pulley size
Rev ratios (SC revs per 1 crank rev)
AMR500 = 13936/6500 = 2.144
M45 = 9291/6500 = 1.43
SC12 = 5807/6500 = 0.893
SC14 = 4907/6500 = 0.755

Sixth step, determine the more realistic performance requirements
SC load at 4500 rpm more realistic rpm range
AMR500 = 2.144 *4500=9648
M45 = 1.43*4500 = 6435
SC12 = 0.893 *4500 = 4019
SC14 = 0.755*4500 = 3398

Eaton m45 will be within max efficiency for most of our realistic rev range, however the minimum is 4000 rpm (so under 3000 rpm will be useless).

AMR500 is a little high at 4500 rpm (eng), and may generate some excess heat. However the boost will be more efficient lower in the rev range, and far suited to offroad requirements.
To cope with the extra heat, linvest in an intercooler.