[jimbo_jones]

I'm want to put blower on my Sierra once the GTI motor goes in to make it a bit more drivable on road I was thiking of using a SC14 toyota charger.
Has anyone had anything to do with charging a GTI in a Sierra? What did you use how was it done was there a big difference in on road and off road performance? Can the factory computer be used or can you remap it? Like a mafless tune?

Cheers jimbo

[Fatzook]

I know the ECU wo't run it.

Good charger, but because they have a clutch driven drive pully, they can sometimes over heat the blower when running full time. Toyota ECu will disengage the blower when coasting or idling. Also has a very smooth transition when it does kick in.

Can't help with the rest though.

[SierraDan]

(I know fuck all about SCs)
Do superchargers run an oil line like a turbo?

[monley]

SierraDan wrote:

(I know fuck all about SCs)
Do superchargers run an oil line like a turbo?

I THINK the SC14 has a oil reservoir. Please Correct me if i am wrong!

[Fatzook]

SierraDan wrote:

(I know fuck all about SCs)
Do superchargers run an oil line like a turbo?

SC's are a closed system. They hold a small amount of 5w charger oil in them. Its a servicable consumable item.

[SierraDan]

Thats pretty cool.

[bazook]

To get around the clutch use a falcon air compressor wheel and also gives you some more psi

[mnemonix]

Terrible charger. Currently got on on my g16/gti but i've had nothing but teething problems with it to date.
Efficiency is piss poor (around 35-40% is the quoted figure).
standard pulleys will give you around 16psi which the standard engine can't handle.
crank pulley is only pk4 and can't get enough wrap on the sc belt to prevent slippage. Tighten it up far enough to prevent slipping under load caused premature failure of my ps pump.

Plus plumbing of bypass valves for when the throttle body is closed, and another for when the supercharger is switched off.

A much better option would be a sprintex s5-210. 90% efficiency at the same rpm giving lower intake temps and ~20% more power.

Either option is useless without aftermarket engine management.
I'm running an adaptronic, lift pump, surge tank, bosch 044 fuel pump, malpassi fpr, 500cc injectors. About $3k of hardware plus another grand or more to install/tune the ecu if you can't do it yourself.
The supercharger is the cheap part of the equation.

[Teracis]

Couldn't you wire the charger clutch through a relay connected to say a throttle position switch (which is wired NC so the clutch disengages when you come off the throttle)

I.E.

Switch setup to cut relay out when throttle is at 0%
Supercharger clutch is wired through the relay so when you come off the throttle it drops the charger out.

This shouldn't be too hard to do, is that the only reason you cannot use the stock ecu or is it a fueling issue?

[SierraDan]

Teracis wrote:

Couldn't you wire the charger clutch through a relay connected to say a throttle position switch (which is wired NC so the clutch disengages when you come off the throttle)

I.E.

Switch setup to cut relay out when throttle is at 0%
Supercharger clutch is wired through the relay so when you come off the throttle it drops the charger out.

This shouldn't be too hard to do, is that the only reason you cannot use the stock ecu or is it a fueling issue?

Adding more air without matching it with more fuel wont be that good.

[mnemonix]

Teracis wrote:

Couldn't you wire the charger clutch through a relay connected to say a throttle position switch (which is wired NC so the clutch disengages when you come off the throttle)

Doing this leads to massive air intake temp due to the incoming air being forced to rotate the supercharger rotors as the engine breathes.
You'd need to coincide your switch with a bypass valve actuated by a solenoid/vacuum actuator or similar so that it allows freeflowing air to bypass the supercharger when it's off.

For the same reason you need another bypass to allow air to flow when the throttlebody is closed by the supercharger is on.

[Teracis]

mnemonix wrote:

Teracis wrote:

Couldn't you wire the charger clutch through a relay connected to say a throttle position switch (which is wired NC so the clutch disengages when you come off the throttle)

Doing this leads to massive air intake temp due to the incoming air being forced to rotate the supercharger rotors as the engine breathes.
You'd need to coincide your switch with a bypass valve actuated by a solenoid/vacuum actuator or similar so that it allows freeflowing air to bypass the supercharger when it's off.

For the same reason you need another bypass to allow air to flow when the throttlebody is closed by the supercharger is on.

How do the toyotas do it?

EDIT: Couldn't you just use a bypass with a 1 way valve?

[mnemonix]

Toyota use a massive air bypass valve built into the factory plumbing that achieves all of the above. it's a bulky cast unit that is totally impractical to reuse in a custom setup.

[Teracis]

Ah, that explains it all.

So ideally you want something like you suggested, that can run all the time!

[Richo]

a guy i know here in Perth was running a late model mini cooper s s/charger on his gti powered coily he claimed 105 rear wheel hp, he sold it about 18 months ago but i still see it around. He reckoned it was very driveable and had no issues with it

[jimbo_jones]

so is there a cheaper way of doing it Id like to keep the std computer if I can my mate runs a blower on his 100 series 4.5l petrol cruiser all he has different is another fuel pump to increase fuel press and it gose like a charm has been on the car for nine years like this. cant I do somthing simler?

[Fatzook]

jimbo_jones wrote:

so is there a cheaper way of doing it Id like to keep the std computer if I can my mate runs a blower on his 100 series 4.5l petrol cruiser all he has different is another fuel pump to increase fuel press and it gose like a charm has been on the car for nine years like this. cant I do somthing simler?

No.

You need to solve these problems, plus more.

Fuel supply ( pressure and flow )
Injector size
ECU mapping
Ignition curve/ Timing ( can you re-graph a dizzy?)
Mounting and hardware
Plumbing
and more....

Boost = money.

[JrZook]

Fatzook wrote:

jimbo_jones wrote:

so is there a cheaper way of doing it Id like to keep the std computer if I can my mate runs a blower on his 100 series 4.5l petrol cruiser all he has different is another fuel pump to increase fuel press and it gose like a charm has been on the car for nine years like this. cant I do somthing simler?

No.

You need to solve these problems, plus more.

Fuel supply ( pressure and flow )
Injector size
ECU mapping
Ignition curve/ Timing ( can you re-graph a dizzy?)
Mounting and hardware
Plumbing
and more....

Boost = money.

The GTI runs an airflow meter I believe. To retain the stock ECU I think it would be best to adopt a piggy back computer or interceptor and run larger injectors providing the added flow does not max out the AFM.

With the larger injectors, thus ample flow you would use the interceptor to trim the fuelling back down to what ever is necessary. This will take care of the fuelling across the rev/load range.

If its the early GTI that still runs the dizzy you should be able to find a boost retard canister and graft it to your dizzy somehow to take away timing under boost.

The otherway (cheep and nasty way) is to just whack on a rising rate fuel regulator which will increase the stock injector flow due to the increased pressure in the fuel rail according to the boost sensed. You will still have to alter the timing of the dizzy as above. Again this may or may not work provided the AFM does not max out as cause the computer to error.

[Fatzook]

JrZook wrote:

If its the early GTI that still runs the dizzy you should be able to find a boost retard canister and graft it to your dizzy somehow to take away timing under boost.

ALL Gti's run a dizzy AFAIK. Never seen a coil pack one yet

[bazook]

also double throttle bodies help as well one on plennium and one on intake of super charger

[jimbo_jones]

Sounds like 2 much trouble and $$$ to worry about

[JrZook]

Fatzook wrote:

JrZook wrote:

If its the early GTI that still runs the dizzy you should be able to find a boost retard canister and graft it to your dizzy somehow to take away timing under boost.

ALL Gti's run a dizzy AFAIK. Never seen a coil pack one yet

I was meaning dizzy as the timing control

[mnemonix]

If you did decide to go ahead, I'd definately consider a different supercharger.
the sc12/14 are based on 80's technology. They're highly inefficient, prone to heat stress at rotor speeds achieved using standard pullys and have many accessories required that complicate the install.

Better options would be Eaton (M45/M62) however these are designed to replace the intake manifold so a freeflowing plenum would need to be fabricated to suit your application.

Best choice would be a Sprintex (S5-150/S5-210) or a Rotrex. These are both simple units to install, with aftermarket kits available for similar sized engines (ie: jimny/mini cooper/honda civic). However the supercharger prices are high at around $~1500 for a new unit.

Until you can accurately handle the fuel/timing requirements of the engine to go with the extra air you're supplying it's a ticking timebomb.

You can play with all the bodgy interceptors/piggyback/5th injectors/RRFPR's you like, but if you want reliability and driveability then go to a standalone system from day 1. You'll reap the rewards in the long run.

[mcwilly]

Why do a supercharger? Why not buy a turbo kit for a gti swift and run an after market computer and a walbro in tank pump and injectors. Run low boost with a small turbo and you'll have full boost at 2500rpm so don't need to worry bout lag.

[mnemonix]

Most people that look at the SC14 option do so because they're cheap to buy ($500).
custom manifold, Aftermarket ecu, walcuz pump, injectors, and a new turbo will be closer to $5k. Outside the budget of most.

I agree that this is a good option though. I'm looking at the benefits of changing the sc14 out for a small twinscroll turbo like a VF38 as I've already got the ancillaries to make it viable.

[jonno_racing]

u can get chipped ecu's very cheep for boost, i have sceen them work, however they are for turbo, the guy that does them remaps them to suit. you could contact him and ask if he would do a supercharger one? that has always been a idea of mine when i build my next motor

[Hybrid]

I second mnemonix. I've got an sc12 that I did a heap of research on running. Even on my G16 I was going to have to underdrive it. So if you've got to underdrive an sc12 on a 1.6L engine I'd hate to see what's needed with an sc14 (larger again) on a 1.3L. Check in with Damen as he's got an eaton m45 (mini cooper I think) to go on his 1.6. It's much more efficient and suited to the build.

With regard to the fueling and electric clutch I'm running a megasquirt which can control the charger clutch turning it off and on at cruise idle etc just like on the factory toyota engine. If you're serious about doing a charger I'd be looking at the megasquirt. Once again Damo has a great write up on them in the tech section.

[mnemonix]

jonno_racing wrote:

u can get chipped ecu's very cheep for boost, i have sceen them work, however they are for turbo, the guy that does them remaps them to suit. you could contact him and ask if he would do a supercharger one? that has always been a idea of mine when i build my next motor

http://www.redlinegti.com/forum/viewtop ... lit=+gtaye
This is most likely the bloke you're referring to?
They're a very hit and miss option in my opinion.
I ran a chiptorque turbo kit in my daily with a chipped ecu. I was lucky.
Several other ppl running the same kit lunched their engines on very minimal boost.

[Fatzook]

mnemonix wrote:

jonno_racing wrote:

u can get chipped ecu's very cheep for boost, i have sceen them work, however they are for turbo, the guy that does them remaps them to suit. you could contact him and ask if he would do a supercharger one? that has always been a idea of mine when i build my next motor

http://www.redlinegti.com/forum/viewtop ... lit=+gtaye
This is most likely the bloke you're referring to?
They're a very hit and miss option in my opinion.
I ran a chiptorque turbo kit in my daily with a chipped ecu. I was lucky.
Several other ppl running the same kit lunched their engines on very minimal boost.

Without brand bashing anyone, I too had troubles with my 300zx TT after having a certain goldcoast "tuning" company, "chip" my ECU. After replacing the botched ECU and failed turbos some 3 weeks later, I fitted an Apexi Power FC, had it tuned by a reputable company and never looked back.

[jonno_racing]

Fatzook wrote:

mnemonix wrote:

jonno_racing wrote:

u can get chipped ecu's very cheep for boost, i have sceen them work, however they are for turbo, the guy that does them remaps them to suit. you could contact him and ask if he would do a supercharger one? that has always been a idea of mine when i build my next motor

http://www.redlinegti.com/forum/viewtop ... lit=+gtaye
This is most likely the bloke you're referring to?
They're a very hit and miss option in my opinion.
I ran a chiptorque turbo kit in my daily with a chipped ecu. I was lucky.
Several other ppl running the same kit lunched their engines on very minimal boost.

Without brand bashing anyone, I too had troubles with my 300zx TT after having a certain goldcoast "tuning" company, "chip" my ECU. After replacing the botched ECU and failed turbos some 3 weeks later, I fitted an Apexi Power FC, had it tuned by a reputable company and never looked back.

i am only going on what i have scene, superduki is running one of his in his gti, 103kw atw, 10psi stock motor i think basicly. and a/f/r's were pretty much spot on! some of the best at the dyno day we were at!