[woo603]

Quote:

i dont touch the clutch at all when going slow. if i stall it i just key start with no clutch. even when i am dragging my boat up a beach i still do a clutchless key start as there is virtually no chance off wheel spin.

Absolutely. Key starts are the way to go with the car in any sort of awkward angle to eliminate any chance of a runaway or driveline stress.

Works in anything from a Suzuki to an International ACCO 6x6! Use the brake until it stalls and the key to get it moving again. Go anywhere near the clutch except to change gears and you will receive a sharp whack with a stick on your left knee from the Army Driving Instructor!

Wow they haven't been a round for a while but yes the principle is the same Example being a stall start on a hill.
Vehicle stalls due to incorrect line, wrong choice of gear, cant get up due to traction, etc

Handbrake, foot brake and engage low range reverse
release handbrake
slowly release foot brake
the vehicle will STAY WHERE IT IS REVERSE WILL HOLD IT
check behind and start up DON'T TOUCH PEDALS (you may ride brake slighly if your vehicles gearing is a bit fast (ford Ranger) but not to heavy as this may cause wheels to lock)
Vehicle will slowly reverse off obstacle any start up speed will be taken care very quickly by the fact you are in LOW RANGE.

the same can be done by going forward

and it can be done in ANY vehicle that is manual from zook to mack R series on any surface from snow to sand to mud

[bakerboy]

96coily wrote:

bakerboy wrote:

hills? in perth? where on earth are you going to require heal toe so you dont "unsettle" the car (although a lifted 4" with no swaybars your pushing shit up hill to make it handle great to start with) through a corner

Still think you're on the wrong forum Princess

Pft, I didn't say don't drive like a mad dawg, I'm saying it's funny trying to perfect a driving technique so it doesn't unsettle an already unstable car. Hell it's a rarity when I'm not on 3 wheels around a corner but it's far more stable than the work car

[2stroker]

I have an LJ so I just drive up and then drive back down....

[31zook]

line lock

[TryHard]

31zook wrote:

line lock

i was thinking about installing a Line Lock how hard are they to set up ?
how did u set urs up i was also thinking about putting a rear Disconnect in i can see how it would help giving the right situation

also what line lock did u use .. the electric one or the Jamer Button one ?

[31zook]

lol and mine are living in my tool box of things to do

[masterA]

JrZook wrote:

masterA wrote:

I belive it puts less stress on the clutch/flywheel, tailshaft joints, axels etc etc etc

Another reason is because im putting in a GTi engine into it so i would prefer to match the revs when i downshift so not to unsettle the car especially since the car will have 3-4" of lift without the swaybar.

Sounds like a complete contradiction here. You want to put less stress on all the vehicle components yet your driving it hard enough to unsettle it in corners.

So either:
A. You drive it super hard
B. Your suspension is sooo sloppy that the car becomes unsettled on any corner at any speed.

My sierra with 2 inch springs and 2 inch tire lift, RUF'd with long and super soft springs without a swaybar up/down shifting through fairly tight bends at 80+ only ever feels remotely unsetttled and this was due to running descent shocks under it (koni's).

With the el-cheapo shocks it felt like turning a corner in a 3-wheeled shopping cart if you changed gears through it.

I have brand new OME 2" lift with new bushes etc with new Gabriel shocks plus i just ordered the 2" BL from Gary on here.

303zuke wrote:

shep wrote:

masterA wrote:

There are numerous reasons but one of the main ones is because i like the driving technique. I belive it puts less stress on the clutch/flywheel, tailshaft joints, axels etc etc etc

I've seen alot of pics and videos of sierras on strange and crazy angles and im sure most of you that know the driving technique would agree/prefer to heal and toe to get the car moving slowly.
You could let the clutch out and get it to the point where it starts to grip/move forward, but by the time you let go of the brake and apply the accelerator the car will either roll back or you will stall it which could possibly make the car unstable and roll it

i dont touch the clutch at all when going slow. if i stall it i just key start with no clutch. even when i am dragging my boat up a beach i still do a clutchless key start as there is virtually no chance off wheel spin.

Absolutely. Key starts are the way to go with the car in any sort of awkward angle to eliminate any chance of a runaway or driveline stress.

Works in anything from a Suzuki to an International ACCO 6x6! Use the brake until it stalls and the key to get it moving again. Go anywhere near the clutch except to change gears and you will receive a sharp whack with a stick on your left knee from the Army Driving Instructor!

Im not too familiar with the key start technique but im not talking about going down a hill or on a flat surface and pressign the clutch (which will give you speed momentum). I was refearing when you're going up a steep hill and you stop half way up (for whatever reason - asses a line or wait for another vehicle to get going) when you are taking off instead of pulling the handbrake up you just hold the brake with the toe and heal the accelerator whilest letting out the clutch to get moving (so you're basically using your clutch as the "accelerator" to get moving instead of the actual accelerator itself....but keeping up the revs with your heal so you don't stall the engine). I may be reading this incorrectly but somehow i doubt i'll be cranking the enngine on a hill without pressing the clutch

alien wrote:

in these situations i usually hold the handbrake up hard, first gear, clutch pedal down, right foot on brake... slowly release clutch pedal till it bites then swap to accel all the while holding the handbrake up, then i drive the first bit with the brake still on and release it... this for me has given the smoothest takeoffs on angles.

the issue being that the pedal pressure you need to stay on the brake is quite high vs. the lightness on the pedal to gently accelerate IMO.

That's exactly what im refearing to but just instead of holding the hand brake just press the brake pedal instead and heal the accelerator.

dominator wrote:

Yeah i moved the accelerator pedal a little bit. I heel and toe when 4wd on steep hills but only because i am not confident key starting. It is probably something i should learn tho.

I think i may be reading the "key start" procedure wrong. if you engage a gear and you don't press the clutch, when you crank the car it will bunny hop and if you're on a hill doing this i don't think it would be a very good idea?!

bakerboy wrote:

96coily wrote:

bakerboy wrote:

hills? in perth? where on earth are you going to require heal toe so you dont "unsettle" the car (although a lifted 4" with no swaybars your pushing shit up hill to make it handle great to start with) through a corner

Still think you're on the wrong forum Princess

Pft, I didn't say don't drive like a mad dawg, I'm saying it's funny trying to perfect a driving technique so it doesn't unsettle an already unstable car. Hell it's a rarity when I'm not on 3 wheels around a corner but it's far more stable than the work car

You must be the new Stig driving on 3 wheels but not everyone has mad dawg skillz like you



Anyway....thanks to all that replied
I was just looking to see if anyone has done or attempted to modify the brake/accelerator pedals to make them all "even"

I'll definatelly look at the "key start" procedure thought

Thanks again

[303zuke]

masterA wrote:

303zuke wrote:

Absolutely. Key starts are the way to go with the car in any sort of awkward angle to eliminate any chance of a runaway or driveline stress.

Works in anything from a Suzuki to an International ACCO 6x6! Use the brake until it stalls and the key to get it moving again. Go anywhere near the clutch except to change gears and you will receive a sharp whack with a stick on your left knee from the Army Driving Instructor!

Im not too familiar with the key start technique but im not talking about going down a hill or on a flat surface and pressign the clutch (which will [accelerator itself....but keeping up the revs with your heal so you don't stall the engine). I may be reading this incorrectly but somehow i doubt i'll be cranking the engine on a hill without pressing the clutch

Handbrake up hard, first gear, clutch pedal down, right foot on brake... slowly release clutch pedal till it bites then swap to accel all the while holding the handbrake up, then i drive the first bit with the brake still on and release it... this for me has given the smoothest takeoffs on angles.

I think i may be reading the "key start" procedure wrong. If you engage a gear and you don't press the clutch, when you crank the car it will bunny hop and if you're on a hill doing this i don't think it would be a very good idea?! I'll definatelly look at the "key start" procedure thought.

Thanks again

That's the way to do it, and especially on steep uphill climbs. The car won't bunny hop around as with the gearing of low range and the weight of the vehicle facing up the hill, there simply isn't enough torque to throw the vehicle about. It will move slower and smoother than with the engine at idling speed, and without slipping/burning the clutch. It can be done using any forward or reverse gear facing up or down hill. It can also be effective in eliminating wheelspin when climbing a step or ledge, or providing speed control when combined with heavy brake application to descend ledges.

As with any cranking of the Starter motor, don't crank continously for more than 20 seconds, or repeatedly over several minutes without allowing the starter to cool.

[masterA]

Thanks 303zuk....i'll have to try it out and see how it goes

This was the video i was refearing to previously
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5x-k3uNxhU

You can see that at 0:35 sec mark when the car is on balance point that he momenterally lets go of the brake to accelerate and then puts it on its side. He was fairly lucky as that looked like a big hill and it could have been alot worse for him

[JrZook]

303zuke wrote:

masterA wrote:

303zuke wrote:

Absolutely. Key starts are the way to go with the car in any sort of awkward angle to eliminate any chance of a runaway or driveline stress.

Works in anything from a Suzuki to an International ACCO 6x6! Use the brake until it stalls and the key to get it moving again. Go anywhere near the clutch except to change gears and you will receive a sharp whack with a stick on your left knee from the Army Driving Instructor!

Im not too familiar with the key start technique but im not talking about going down a hill or on a flat surface and pressign the clutch (which will [accelerator itself....but keeping up the revs with your heal so you don't stall the engine). I may be reading this incorrectly but somehow i doubt i'll be cranking the engine on a hill without pressing the clutch

Handbrake up hard, first gear, clutch pedal down, right foot on brake... slowly release clutch pedal till it bites then swap to accel all the while holding the handbrake up, then i drive the first bit with the brake still on and release it... this for me has given the smoothest takeoffs on angles.

I think i may be reading the "key start" procedure wrong. If you engage a gear and you don't press the clutch, when you crank the car it will bunny hop and if you're on a hill doing this i don't think it would be a very good idea?! I'll definatelly look at the "key start" procedure thought.

Thanks again

That's the way to do it, and especially on steep uphill climbs. The car won't bunny hop around as with the gearing of low range and the weight of the vehicle facing up the hill, there simply isn't enough torque to throw the vehicle about. It will move slower and smoother than with the engine at idling speed, and without slipping/burning the clutch. It can be done using any forward or reverse gear facing up or down hill. It can also be effective in eliminating wheelspin when climbing a step or ledge, or providing speed control when combined with heavy brake application to descend ledges.

As with any cranking of the Starter motor, don't crank continously for more than 20 seconds, or repeatedly over several minutes without allowing the starter to cool.

So again you would apply this advice to all vehicles, so even a common sierra with 31's and std tcase gearing. I think they are too bloody fast if you got the engine to fire off the starter for a downhill key start! Even on the starter there to fast anyway so you would be riding them brakes very hard and loading the starter.

Anyway what's the real issue here? Your handbrake plus the foot brake should have more than enough braking capacity to hold your vehicle from falling back down hill once its stalled.

The vacuum booster does hold vacuum for at least a few foot pumps before the brakes are un-assisted.

I honestly have no issues stalling, pulling up the handbrake, giving the foot brake a pump and holding it there, then pushing the clutch in and restarting and either creeping down the hill under both breaks and/or letting the clutch out also so I can use the engine braking as well.

[JrZook]

masterA wrote:

Thanks 303zuk....i'll have to try it out and see how it goes

This was the video i was refearing to previously
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5x-k3uNxhU

You can see that at 0:35 sec mark when the car is on balance point that he momenterally lets go of the brake to accelerate and then puts it on its side. He was fairly lucky as that looked like a big hill and it could have been alot worse for him

That vehicle hasn't ever stalled! That's an example of a poor hill start. Trying to start off when the car is see-sawing already doesn't seem like a good idea. He was fully stopped, so he could have slowly rolled back a bit until the vehicle was settled and then re-attempted it. Doesn't look like he was using the handbrake either, or it didn't work to well.

[masterA]

JrZook wrote:

303zuke wrote:

masterA wrote:

303zuke wrote:

Absolutely. Key starts are the way to go with the car in any sort of awkward angle to eliminate any chance of a runaway or driveline stress.

Works in anything from a Suzuki to an International ACCO 6x6! Use the brake until it stalls and the key to get it moving again. Go anywhere near the clutch except to change gears and you will receive a sharp whack with a stick on your left knee from the Army Driving Instructor!

Im not too familiar with the key start technique but im not talking about going down a hill or on a flat surface and pressign the clutch (which will [accelerator itself....but keeping up the revs with your heal so you don't stall the engine). I may be reading this incorrectly but somehow i doubt i'll be cranking the engine on a hill without pressing the clutch

Handbrake up hard, first gear, clutch pedal down, right foot on brake... slowly release clutch pedal till it bites then swap to accel all the while holding the handbrake up, then i drive the first bit with the brake still on and release it... this for me has given the smoothest takeoffs on angles.

I think i may be reading the "key start" procedure wrong. If you engage a gear and you don't press the clutch, when you crank the car it will bunny hop and if you're on a hill doing this i don't think it would be a very good idea?! I'll definatelly look at the "key start" procedure thought.

Thanks again

That's the way to do it, and especially on steep uphill climbs. The car won't bunny hop around as with the gearing of low range and the weight of the vehicle facing up the hill, there simply isn't enough torque to throw the vehicle about. It will move slower and smoother than with the engine at idling speed, and without slipping/burning the clutch. It can be done using any forward or reverse gear facing up or down hill. It can also be effective in eliminating wheelspin when climbing a step or ledge, or providing speed control when combined with heavy brake application to descend ledges.

As with any cranking of the Starter motor, don't crank continously for more than 20 seconds, or repeatedly over several minutes without allowing the starter to cool.

So again you would apply this advice to all vehicles, so even a common sierra with 31's and std tcase gearing. I think they are too bloody fast if you got the engine to fire off the starter for a downhill key start! Even on the starter there to fast anyway so you would be riding them brakes very hard and loading the starter.

Anyway what's the real issue here? Your handbrake plus the foot brake should have more than enough braking capacity to hold your vehicle from falling back down hill once its stalled.

The vacuum booster does hold vacuum for at least a few foot pumps before the brakes are un-assisted.

I honestly have no issues stalling, pulling up the handbrake, giving the foot brake a pump and holding it there, then pushing the clutch in and restarting and either creeping down the hill under both breaks and/or letting the clutch out also so I can use the engine braking as well.

There's no issue.
You have made valid points and that is the way i would to do it also.
My point is when you get it restarted ....i just dont like using the handbrake all the time to get going....i would just rather keep the pressure on the foot brake and take off with the clutch but to avoid stalling again hit the accelerator to build revs with my heal.

Anyway....all i was asking is if there is a way to make the pedals the same height and if anyone has done this.

I know in my Hilux it is really hard to get to the handbrake as its located under the dash and pushing it down you need to twist it and move forward which only gives you one hand on the steering wheel plus it moves your body away from your seat giving you poor foot controls.
I got quite good at the heal/toe technique and use it on all the vehicles i drive and wanted to apply that principle to the Sierra.

[masterA]

JrZook wrote:

masterA wrote:

Thanks 303zuk....i'll have to try it out and see how it goes

This was the video i was refearing to previously
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5x-k3uNxhU

You can see that at 0:35 sec mark when the car is on balance point that he momenterally lets go of the brake to accelerate and then puts it on its side. He was fairly lucky as that looked like a big hill and it could have been alot worse for him

That vehicle hasn't ever stalled! That's an example of a poor hill start. Trying to start off when the car is see-sawing already doesn't seem like a good idea. He was fully stopped, so he could have slowly rolled back a bit until the vehicle was settled and then re-attempted it. Doesn't look like he was using the handbrake either, or it didn't work to well.

That's right...poor hill start and that is my point exactly......i want to get going smoothly instead of "rocking" the vehicle.
I don't think i would use a key start technique on that angle or back down the hill with key start technique either.

[bakerboy]

I used to be pretty nervous about a stall recovery on a hill (pretty much opposite of what's been said, reverse low range, hand brake and feet off pedals and start it as you remove the hand brake) once you get used to the initial jolt, it's actually pretty relaxed

Mind you this has deviated from how can I corner using heel toe to hill starts hahaha