[poeee]

I'm looking at buying a 25+ year old (must be) Sierra. I don't know much about these things at all. Talk about WT and NT (I presume this means wide track and narrow track). I want something that will be an easy-ish project, so don't want to be swapping diffs, engines, etc (at this stage). Hard top is preffered.

You guys all know what you're talking about... so please tell me what I should be looking for.

Ta.

[royce]

poeee

25yo is going to be Narrow track, this means the diffs are narrower and doesnt have the big flares
About that age can be a 1 litre engine (flat bonnet, metal vertical slat grille) or 1.3 (hump bonnet, plastic grille)

Drivelines dont really interchange between the different engines either


around 1988 the Wide track came out, after 1989 they came out proper, some of the 1988 ones had NT diff ratios, tail shafts, handbrakes etc (1.3 diff centers interchange)

its worth trying to get a WT, newer for one so less worn out shit to fix and the wider diffs and better dash are worthwhile to have straight up if you dont want to stuff around welding perches and so on for a swap later

[poeee]

Oh hi royce.

So the WT diffs don't 'bolt in' to a NT chassis?

Age is important here. Club permits have changed in vic. I have a Mini on a 45 day permit. $60odd and I can drive it whenever I want, on a 45 day log book. $110 gets you a 90 permit, or I can buy another 45 days once the 45 book is filled.

[royce]

Dont bolt in, but you can have the perches moved (actually removed and new ones welded in) narrower on some WT diffs to fit a NT, its the preffered way of doing things for some people rather than a WT to begin with

The 1.3 NT diff center (3.9 ration rather than 3.7 in WT) will bolt into the NT housings as well for a bit better gearing

As long as you stick with a 1.3 to begin with adding stuff from later models is a lot easier

[poeee]

What will a 1.3 NT lack over a WT when properly off road?

[303zuke]

poeee wrote:

Age is important here. Club permits have changed in vic.

The Conditional registration for historic vehicles in NSW is much the same, although requires vehicles to be over 30 years. A word of caution though, the RTA in NSW requires the vehicles to be as close to original condition as possible, although safety improvements are allowed. So no tyres in non-original sizes, no suspension lift, no barwork, no engine conversions.

A stock Suzuki can be capable, but after a while the novelty runs out and you will want to modify it just a little!

[royce]

the main difference are the NT obviously is narrower, so impacts on side stability, not a big deal and can be corrected a bit with wider offset wheels

the handbrake is also different, on a NT its on the driveshaft, holds batter but because the diff is between the brake and tyres you need both wheels on the ground to hold, otherwise its just freewheels till it gets traction

Neither are things to worry about straight up and there certainly are better mods youd think about doing straight up

[Santos]

Sounds like for the sort of driving you are talking about i don't think the extra two inches is really worth worrying about. If you can get 1.3l that is that old in good nick then you are doing well.

Definately would invest in fresh suspension (OME springs, shocks and bushels) nothing fancy just the closest stock height (which is their +40mm lift)

I do have a 'WT dash' on my daily driver i dont think its that much better than the NT dash in my LWB... with exception that i see a lot more WT dash with factory tachometers.

[shep]

poeee wrote:

What will a 1.3 NT lack over a WT when properly off road?

WTs are about 90mm wider but i reckon it means bugger all however WT diffs with NT spring spacing = great flex.

[poeee]

303zuke. I know what you are talking about regarding club permits in NSW. A lot of friends with Mini's have to be careful with what they do before putting them on your club permit. Most of them are the quickest production car based motorkhana cars in the country actually.

The way the 'rules' are written in Vic, we don't have such problems. I believe it's up to the discretion of the club? None the less... no-one from club actually saw the car during the process I went through to get the last Mini on the road. Get a RWC, fill out the vicroads form, get it signed by the club, take it to vicroads and pay your money. Infact, it's actually up to the CLUB on how they determine how safe the car is for the road. Most require you to optain a RWC... but some have an assigned member to simply look over the car!

Royce. I'm now experienced with the lovelyness of a hydraulic handbrake. Any reasons why it may not be a common mod in the 4x4, or more specifically, the zuk scene?

[royce]

poeee wrote:

Royce. I'm now experienced with the lovelyness of a hydraulic handbrake. Any reasons why it may not be a common mod in the 4x4, or more specifically, the zuk scene?

NT 1.3 also has split rear brakes so that will take some work to setup

Whilst its a difference, its not really that much of a limitation

[poeee]

Split how?

[royce]

Sort of like the split systems on Late Australian minis, runs seperate lines to right and left from the master cylinder.

WT and 1 litres run a single line though so you could re plum it

[shep]

royce wrote:

Sort of like the split systems on Late Australian minis, runs seperate lines to right and left from the master cylinder.

WT and 1 litres run a single line though so you could re plum it

mine has been changed to a wt single line, was by a previous owner though so i dunno
whats involved.

[poeee]

I presume that it's like the Mini's and it incorporates the tee in the biasing valve. So simply block off one outlet, and run a single line down through the hand brake master cyl and tee off down the back.

Seems like I'm heading off on a tangent here.

So basically look for a 1.3 of that age then?

[tanshi]

you could also consider an LJ50 or LJ80 as they are great in stock form too

[royce]

No Biasing, it splits at a block under the master cylinder

You could change the block and just use a single line to rear, then change to a WT Wheel cylinder on teh drivers side (take a hard line in and then out to the passenger side

yep 1985 1.3 is the pick, look for rust in the floors and under the sills

[Daz7]

303zuke wrote:

poeee wrote:

Age is important here. Club permits have changed in vic.

The Conditional registration for historic vehicles in NSW is much the same, although requires vehicles to be over 30 years. A word of caution though, the RTA in NSW requires the vehicles to be as close to original condition as possible, although safety improvements are allowed. So no tyres in non-original sizes, no suspension lift, no barwork, no engine conversions.

A stock Suzuki can be capable, but after a while the novelty runs out and you will want to modify it just a little!

Your a little off the mark here, period modifications are allowed but it'll come down to what the car club your involved with will accept.

[Gwagensteve]

poeee, which club are you going to use to run your CH plates?

We looked at it for us as there are a few members with old enough cars, but in my opinion, using CH plates to get cheap rego on a bush car isn't the intent of the system.

We had a couple of members with stock LJ's who were really keen to go down the path, but as a club, we are too small and the eligable vehicles are too few to make it worthwhile. LROC or similar might entertain it, but I'd be surprised if they would be too keen on using their CH system to plate an NT suzuki.

Part of the issue is that you still need to retain a RWC or have a club officer who will take responsibility for the car. That's a fair burden when you are including off road modifications and use into the mix.

Just my 2C. It's a great scheme for the right car (stock LJ, as an example) might not be a great scheme for a WT diffed, hydraulic handbraked motor converted 1.0 litre though.

[303zuke]

Daz7 wrote:

303zuke wrote:

The Conditional registration for historic vehicles in NSW is much the same, although requires vehicles to be over 30 years. A word of caution though, the RTA in NSW requires the vehicles to be as close to original condition as possible, although safety improvements are allowed. So no tyres in non-original sizes, no suspension lift, no barwork, no engine conversions.

Your a little off the mark here, period modifications are allowed but it'll come down to what the car club your involved with will accept.

No, period accessories are allowed, safety improvements are allowed, and factory options are allowed, but not modifications to the vehicle which were not available from the factory or dealer to that type of vehicle. eg it was permissable to fit a F8A or F10A to an LJ50 without an engineer's cert, but as these were not factory or dealer options for an LJ50, the modification is not permitted under the Conditional Registration scheme. Fitting Radial Tyres instead of Cross-plies is considered a safety improvement, but must be as close as possible to the original in dia and width, so no 32 inch BFG's!

The rules are HERE. Of note is the line: "Historic vehicles manufactured 30 or more years ago are eligible for conditional registration if the........ vehicle has not been altered except for certain safety features or period accessories."

There are detailed information sheets available from the RTA. and should also be in the posession of the Club Plate Registrar, but a summary is HERE. While a particular club may allow a modified vehicle to pass scrutiny, an RTA Inspector can also inspect the vehicle and deem it modified, risking the Cond Reg, and more importantly the continued eligibility of the club to participate in the scheme. Most clubs are aware of the risks and will follow the criteria.