[shakes]

Any progress with this?

[bristlenose2008]

shakes wrote:

Any progress with this?

When a forum member like my self does not post for extended periods, some would think there are problems with the engine rebuild project.

Those thinking that are spot on.

In Summary:
1) Machinist took over 6 weeks to bore and hone then line hone the block. He then realised the block was cracked.
The 2nd & 3rd block were also cracked, the 4th block was not.

2) Crank was slightly knife edged, and balanced. Took over 7 weeks to complete. It turns out I was a lied to at the end of May and in the end the crank crank was not finished till about end of June.

3) CAM was done in less than 4 weeks by CAM Tech

4) Port matching was done, porting & polishing was not.

5) all sort of other issues possed up, such as the valve springs that needed to be not rejst replaced but upgraded, than tracking those down was an issue.....

It the end things got done and I will be assembling it all on the weekend.

I am at least $800 over budget now. Last thing I have bought was these:
oil pressure switch 37820-SZ030 $12
temperature sender switch 34850-sz102 $16
Coolant sensor switch 13650-SZ101 $38
heater hose inlet 13191-SZ100 $12
heater hose outlet 17872-SZ100 $9
plus 3 radiator hoses ($28/$11/$15) = $54
window winder handle 82960-SZ100 $5
oil filter ryco 16510-SZ101R $10
Fuel filter generic 15410-SZ101G $16
10 Head bolts $105

[skyman]

Man sorry it worked out that way for you.

It seems to me that machine shops are weird that way, and I don't know why. There are very few shops that can produce a consistently good product. With good customer service.

Does anyone in the business know why that is?

One time they turn out a top notch engine, call at any sign of problems and you get a hot engine, with everything in spec, that runs the shit out of others for it's size.

Other times the same shop will overlook a questionable head, fail to check bearing clearances when they are putting one together, and a few (very few) shops will say they have done work that they really didn't do, or exclude parts the customer payed for. (I have seen all of this first hand)

So what gives? Why is there such a lack of consistency, and poor workmanship? or is it just the type of business that sees a lot of complications or problems, and how they deal with them is the inconsistent part?

Again, really sorry to hear about your luck with the blocks, and time it took to get everything back. I really do know how that is. Hopefully it is smooth sailing for you from here out (knocks on wood (for the U.S.) then touches it for AU)

[atari4x4]

pretty sure it's caused by Mondayitus & Fridayitus

[bristlenose2008]

skyman wrote:

Again, really sorry to hear about your luck with the blocks, and time it took to get everything back. I really do know how that is. Hopefully it is smooth sailing for you from here out (knocks on wood (for the U.S.) then touches it for AU)

There were so many other things, which I won't even bother talking about. What I will say is that I did have to use another machine shop to fix up a few things which I was charged for that did not get done by the 1st machinist.

I am trying to add picture attachments but it isn't working

[bristlenose2008]

my cam specs

[bristlenose2008]

cam install instructions

[bristlenose2008]

exploded view of engine internals

[bristlenose2008]

my original vitara stock engine with 300K on it

[skyman]

74 horses (55kw) at the tires is not bad at all for 300k!!!

That is truly the shits that you still have stuff to sort out with the first shop, fuckers.

[bristlenose2008]

skyman wrote:

74 horses (55kw) at the tires is not bad at all for 300k!!!

That is truly the shits that you still have stuff to sort out with the first shop, fuckers.

i've put the 1st shop incident behind me cut my losses, and moved on.

Today instead of assembling the engine I have attempted to CC' the engine and at the same time work out the compression.

The engine shop where they have fixed things up for me gave me a run down on how to do it, but I ended up giving up on this now. Without macrometer, vernier caliper, syringe , perspex glass with double holes, special fluid (one that does not pit like water) skills and experience it is hard. No wonder the drag race tuners specialise and charge so much for this kind of service.

Some of the formulas I have written down.
Bore X Bore X Stroke X .7854 swept volume
(measure CC chamber & Gasket thickness)
Bore x Bore x Thickness x .7854

I am measuring between 42cc and 44cc per chamber.
Bore about 75.4mm
Stroke about 89.7

Think the original compression was 9:1 but my 1st engine builder has not passed on the details on paper, so it's from memory.

I am using ACL pistons 40thou over original. (this increases swept chamber volume)
The block was decked 30 thou and the head was shaved 30thou also. (this reduces clearance volume)
The valve seat has been cut back so the valve is further back (this increases clearance volume a tiny bit)

If i was any good at this I could use these formulas too:
formulas

It would be great to know if my compression is up from original or compression is lower than original. Also by how much.

What is the engine displacement now? It was 1590


One site I found this info:
Formulas for displacement, bore and stroke
pi/4 = 0.7853982
cylinder volume = pi/4 x bore^2 x stroke
stroke = displacement / (pi/4 x bore^2 x number of cylinders)


Formulas for compression ratio
(CylVolume + ChamberVolume) / ChamberVolume
cylinder volume = pi/4 x bore^2 x stroke
chamber volume = cylinder volume / compression ratio - 1.0
displacement ratio = cylinder volume / chamber volume
amount to mill = (new disp. ratio - old disp. ratio / new disp. ratio x old disp. ratio) x stroke


this other site below seems totally wrong to me.
totally wrong ?? website

I am soooo lost.....any help would be great.

Thanks guys!

[harvs]

[bristlenose2008]

[JrZook]

bristlenose2008 wrote:

I am measuring between 42cc and 44cc per chamber.
Bore about 75.4mm
Stroke about 89.7

What is the engine displacement now? It was 1590

Using those numbers I get 1601cc

[harvs]

Yeah a quick calculation and I get the same.

What size is the dish on your piston?

So you now need to add up all the area's. There's the chamber like you've said, you've got any dish in the pistons (measure it in the same way), you've got the thinkness of the head gasket and finally if there is any clearance between the top of the piston and the deck, and finally the sweep volume.

If you then divide the total area by the total area less the sweep volume you'll have your compression ratio.

[losfer]

i'm curious as to what you want to do when you figure out what the compression ratio is ?

[JrZook]

Yea mate,

As harvs said, you need a few more measurements to calc CR such as compressed headgasket height/bore and piston deck volume.

[ajsr]

[bristlenose2008]

ajsr wrote:

if you are even halfway serious about forced induction you really need to set the motor up for it now, not just hope the comp ratio may be something close to what you need.

you need to make it right now, or live with a NA motor

that's right! I don't want to be faced with a situation where I feel the need to force induce and I don't know what my specs are exactly.

I need to find more precise instruments

[harvs]

[skyman]

Sounds low to me too, if it is that low and it is going together this way, forced induction may be needed to get some grunt out of the thing.

Either that or see if the block or head can be shaved to get a little more compression. (not the right way but about all that can be done without buying new pistons)

[bristlenose2008]

harvs wrote:

Assuming the top of the piston is perfectly flat with the deck so ignoring that bit.

Total volume = 400+42+2.25+12.5 = 456.75cc
Total volume less sweep = 42+2.25+12.5 = 56.75cc
Which gives us a CR = 8.0

Gees I guess I was wrong about the piston dish. How about you check yours, that's got to be too low...

The details have now been gathered. It wasn't that easy at all, even after having purchased the perspex glass, and syringes. The figures are still not 100% correct because when you are out by 1cc on the gasket or 0.5cc on the head clearance volume or 0.5cc on the clearance volume between the deck and TDC you can imagine it ALL ADDS UP.

Stats:
The engine displacement: 1625.403cc
TDC to deck clearance volume: 17.5cc -18cc
Head clearance volume: 21.5cc-22cc
Head gasket volume: 4.96cc-5.4cc (depending on crush factor)

Calculated compression 9.0:1min - 9.4:1max

Would be nice to know if I started out with 8.5:1 or something else. Not a huge gain either way, but I am sure I will be happy with the results.

[bristlenose2008]

Engine assembly began, so here are some pictures.

[mnemonix]

Nice colour. Is this for your wifes car or do you just enjoy the taste of penis?

[bristlenose2008]

mnemonix wrote:

Nice colour. Is this for your wifes car or do you just enjoy the taste of penis?

haha, no and would not know

[bristlenose2008]

Found a supercharger kit on sale in the US. It is a 4" supercharger that would provide about 6PSI boost. It is made for the 8V model, but they may have one for the 16V, so checking that out.

The engine will go in either way as the cam, tappets & piston rings need to bed in before anything else can happen.

[JrZook]

So your thinking about boosting as well now? Was the cam ground for boosted application?

[bristlenose2008]

Weather hasn't been crash hot this weekend, so the engine isn't going for another week or two.

The "workshop facility" is outdoors with limited cover. Some rain would be fine but with this much we can't work. Mechanic is also bit busy for this now.

I did get some of my hoses. Not the colour I hoped it to be. The red is actually orange, the blue is exactly the colour I hoped for.

There is another order coming hopefully those colours are bit better. Yellow 4mm vaccuum hoses to complete the spagetti bolognese inspired engine bay.

This delay gave me more time to think about the possibility of using a supercharger. I have abandoned the that idea however looked at throttle body enlargement options.

Can anyone tell me what the short runner intake manifolds do for a 4WD like my Suzuki Vitara? Would this make absolutely no sense considering for an off road vehicle?

Short Runners Intake Manifold SOHC 16V

[harvs]

bristlenose2008 wrote:

The engine will go in either way as the cam, tappets & piston rings need to bed in before anything else can happen.

Dude, just do this. At them moment, assuming you cam grind isn't out of this world, you should be able to put your engine in, drive it and run it in.

Starting a developmental project while you haven't even got the engine started yet will only ever result in tears...

[bristlenose2008]

harvs wrote:

bristlenose2008 wrote:

The engine will go in either way as the cam, tappets & piston rings need to bed in before anything else can happen.

Dude, just do this. At them moment, assuming you cam grind isn't out of this world, you should be able to put your engine in, drive it and run it in.

Starting a developmental project while you haven't even got the engine started yet will only ever result in tears...

Totally agree with running in the motor 1st. Won't argue that at all.

As it takes several weeks to source certain parts, I want to do my research now, so that by the time the engine is run in, I can be ready to order the next thing. Of course right now it is just about finding that next possible upgrade, such as the short runner.