[scott12]

Hi Fellas,

Hoping to get open and closed lengths of aftermarket rear shocks and front struts (e.g. OME, Dobinson, Ironman); and

open and closed lengths of standard rear shocks and front struts

for a '98 - '05 GV ?

Regards
Scott

[Built4thrashing]

where do you want the measurements taken from?

[scott12]

Built4thrashing wrote:

where do you want the measurements taken from?

a comparison to standard in open and closed is all that is required,

or open length and total travel (same thing).

forgot to mention, trying to work out if downward (droop) suspension travel for aftermarket shocks ends up being same, or greater, or less than standard struts / shocks after the typical 35 - 40mm lifted spring is installed.

There's some non specific info on many other threads, e.g. "....... are longer" - longer than what and by how much ?

and, is the actual travel of the aftermarket versions longer or the same as the standard shock / struts ?

I'd like to lift approx 40mm (with spring) and want to make sure I have a decent amount of droop so I don't lift wheels too easily.

I'm hoping this thread can be used as a comparison between these commonly available lift kits re suspension travel, without having to sift through 50 pages of subjective info that have little quantitative content.

Thanks

[bailey08]

vt wagon shocks give 10cm of droop with 40mm taller springs, not sure of closed length but will not bottom out before hitting bump stops. just don't go the sedan shocks as your springs will fall out from being to long and will bottom out before bump stops. (trust me on this one lol) you'll have to modify the lower eye (i did this with an angle grinder)

any longer strut will work. plus get some camber bolts.

if you take the sway bar off (just for off road obviously) then the front end will flex quite well.

today i put some 15/30mm spacers in so I will see if this still works well enough over the next week.

[scott12]

bailey08 wrote:

vt wagon shocks give 10cm of droop with 40mm taller springs, not sure of closed length but will not bottom out before hitting bump stops. just don't go the sedan shocks as your springs will fall out from being to long and will bottom out before bump stops. (trust me on this one lol) you'll have to modify the lower eye (i did this with an angle grinder)

any longer strut will work. plus get some camber bolts.

if you take the sway bar off (just for off road obviously) then the front end will flex quite well.

today i put some 15/30mm spacers in so I will see if this still works well enough over the next week.

Thanks Bailey, I noticed this mentioned in the vitara / commodore shocks thread, however I'm probably more inclined to get a full kit e.g. Dobinson's so that no mods are required and I can easily get bolt on parts sent to where ever I'm broken down.

Any body got actual open and closed measurements of Dobinson's, OME or Ironman shocks & struts compared to standard ?

[bailey08]

Ironman are on there website in the catalogue at the end. I looked at these and the rear shocks are way to short from memory. the struts are great though.

(just looked up VT wagon shocks and there 54cm open and 32cm shut)

[scott12]

Built4thrashing wrote:

where do you want the measurements taken from?

OK so after a few phone calls these are the aftermarket manufacturer's open / closed specs on their shocks and struts for a '98-'05 GV.

OME
front strut 504 / 318mm part no N103
rear shock 508 / 318mm part no N105

Dobinson
front strut 500 / 304mm part no GS57-620
rear shock 505 / 320mm part no GS57-621

Ironman
front strut 505 / 310mm part no 1208GR
rear shock 510 / 320mm part no 12658GR


So the main question now (as Built4thrashing asked) is where do they measure the front strut from ?

If someone can provide a difference in length between a standard strut / shock and any of those listed above, please contribute.

Thanks

[Built4thrashing]

I know but cant check (GV is at the mechanics getting clutch done) that the dobinson struts are definately 20mm longer compressed and 40 mm longer extended than a standard strut.

With the 40mm king springs and the 15mm spacer in the front the strut is the limiting factor to getting maximum down travel when the sway bar is removed.

if only there were disconnects for the swaybar..

[scott12]

Built4thrashing wrote:

I know but cant check (GV is at the mechanics getting clutch done) that the dobinson struts are definately 20mm longer compressed and 40 mm longer extended than a standard strut.
..

Hi B4T, Is this a measured comparison ?

and the rear shock ? (and is this for a '98 - '05 GV?)

[Built4thrashing]

Yes it was a measures comparo when i had front end pulled apart doing front locker.
didnt do rear shocks. Just made some relocation brackers that lift and turn the bottom mount 90deg. gained 50mm in down travel from installing brackets.

And yes its for the 98-05 GV's.

[scott12]

Thanks B4T.

Not exactly sure if the manufacturer's give the correct info, hopefully the open and closed lengths are correct, at least it sounded like they were reading them off a spec sheet, however re comparison to standard -

one manufacturer reckoned his front struts were same lengths as standard (hint - springs are made of it & he's not female) and his rear shocks were 40mm longer than standard.

Another manufacturer reckoned his front struts were 10mm longer than standard which would be 20mm at the wheel (although i think his effective ratio is out - hint - his son is a dobber) and his rear shocks were ?? mm longer than standard but he didn't have the info on standard shocks / struts to compare.

Another manufacturer reckoned his front struts / shocks were ?? mm longer than standard and probably longer than standard in droop (hint - he's an aged flightless bird) but he didn't have the info on standard units to compare.


I'll put my bets on your measured difference for the Dobinson fronts as being right, so that gives us front lengths / travels....


just need a measured comparison between the rear shock lengths from one of the above mentioned shocks compared to standard ?

or

measurement of a standard rear shock (from standard measuring datums i.e. stem flange to eye centre) ?

I would expect most manufacturers would be the same with measurement datums ??

[Built4thrashing]

When i measure a strut i measured from the botom of the lower eye when sitting on the ground to the step in on the strut shaft where it slides into the strut top. This way there is no error in guessing where the eye center is and its easier to measure on your own.


Clutch is going back in tomorrow so should have GV back soon to get the measurements for you. (just need to read the measurements i wrote on the strut)

[scott12]

Thanks mate.

[Built4thrashing]

The Struts that were in my GV when i bought it were Ultima struts. They are standard length struts. Compressed length is 325mm and extended length is 488mm. about 165mm travel

Pics show where and how i measured them.
.






so i went past the mechanic today and got the measurements. The dobinson struts are 325mm compressed and 525mm extended. Gives you 200mm of travel.

They are the same length as the struts that were in the GV when i bought it but extend to be about 40mm longer.

[shabz]

Not sure if this will help, but here's a few pics i took ages ago. Stock vs Ironman kit





In this photo the drivers side has been installed with ironman strut and spring, passenger side stock. The concrete is actually level even though it doesn't seem it in the photo.

[Built4thrashing]

Hey Shabz. Do you still have the stock struts? be good if you could measure them.

[shabz]

Nah i threw them out long ago....they were well and truely wasted.
Still got the stock springs though.

[scott12]

Once i get some decent jacks I'll be able to measure my std ones for comparison, however for the time being thanks guys for the pics and info.

On paper it looks like ironman have the longest struts / shocks (of these aftermarket kits).

All of these manufacturers look like there in the ballpark for length and travel over standard.

So now the nitty gritty,

What are your opinions on reliability and ride comfort with these 35 - 40mm lift kits ?

Has anyone ridden in a GV with these different kits (OME, Dobinson, ironman) and can provide a ride quality comparison (I'm hoping I won't need a kidney belt after the lift).

Spring rates will be the next question and for my load (0 - 35kg additional front / 35 - 65 kG additional weight rear) -

OME front 540 lb / "
OME rear 200 lb / "

Dobinson front 560 / lb "
Dobinson rear 200 / lb "

Ironman - are unable to provide spring rates (doesn't inspire confidence).

[shabz]

Scott the ironman kit is a little on the stiffer side. I found it to ride nicer with the weight of bar and winch on the front.

It's definately not TOO stiff though. Also just so you know ironman have 2 different rear shocks available for the GV.

Mine have been in for just about 2 years now, no problems

[scott12]

shabz wrote:

Scott the ironman kit is a little on the stiffer side. I found it to ride nicer with the weight of bar and winch on the front.

It's definately not TOO stiff though. Also just so you know ironman have 2 different rear shocks available for the GV.

Mine have been in for just about 2 years now, no problems

"Stiffer" than stock I assume, or stiffer than OME / Dobinson ?

Which part no for shocks and springs did you get ?

Did you need to use a camber adj bolt on the front struts ?

[Built4thrashing]

You will have to use camber adjusting bolts with any lift kit as there is no other way to adjust it. Some struts have oval top holes in them to allow some adjustments but OME, Dobinson and ironman dont.

[scott12]

[bailey08]

I have terrain tamer in mine. 40mm on rear and 50mm on front but waiting for it to settle a bit. I installed the rears about a year ago and haven't lost any hieght. only just installed the fronts so hopefully they do settle a bit.

they were $176 a set, a little more than iron man but they had them in stock and being apart of the Y gen I need everything right now.

[Built4thrashing]

I got king springs for the front of mine. KSFR34. 40mm raised. $165 each. They do a KSFR34H for the XL7's. These will also fit a GV and lift it about 55mm but are very stiff. Suit a steel bar and winch.

[scott12]

Do you guys have spring rates and open lengths for those springs ?

If so, can you add it to the list so far, and when we have enough info together I'll make a comparison sheet for springs and shocks.

[shabz]

scott12 wrote:

Shabs, do you remember what your increase in ride height was from the ironman kit (measured from where) ?

I don't remember where i measured from exactly but i do remember a 60mm lift in the rear and about 40mm in the front.

Yes it's a 35mm lift kit but the old stock springs were a little sagged.

I've got the strut out of the car at the moment, so i'll measure up the open and closed lengths tomorrow for ya

[scott12]

shabz wrote:

scott12 wrote:

Shabs, do you remember what your increase in ride height was from the ironman kit (measured from where) ?

I don't remember where i measured from exactly but i do remember a 60mm lift in the rear and about 40mm in the front.

Yes it's a 35mm lift kit but the old stock springs were a little sagged.

I've got the strut out of the car at the moment, so i'll measure up the open and closed lengths tomorrow for ya

Cool thanks, can you compare yours to the manufacturer's open / closed listed above, and advise where you reckon manufacturer's strut measurements are taken from ?

- that way I'll know where to measure my standard struts from to compare to manufacturer's data.

[shabz]

Just measured my front strut, from the very bottom to the top of the thread, same as B4Ts photo

384mm closed
583mm open
Give or take a couple mm

Going by the measurements you posted above....i have no idea where they measure them from

My measurements show 199mm travel. Those you posted show 195mm travel...so its pretty close, but i can't figure out where they measured from

[Built4thrashing]

They measure from bottom bolt hole ctr to where the step in is on the shaft.

For ease i measured from the base of strut when on bench to the step in on the shaft.

[scott12]

shabz, 4mm extra travel could be due to a compressed (over time) rebound stop ???

Thanks b4t for measurement datum.