[matty]

as some of you might know i have just had a full engine rebuild on my g16b.
i have some big proglems with the motor since the build, just want to know what the bearing clearance and ring gaps are for this engine before i talk to engine builder to stay on top of things.
thanks for all your help everyone. fingers crossed.

[sideways]

matty wrote:

as some of you might know i have just had a full engine rebuild on my g16b.
i have some big proglems with the motor since the build, just want to know what the bearing clearance and ring gaps are for this engine before i talk to engine builder to stay on top of things.
thanks for all your help everyone. fingers crossed.

Don't you have a workshop manual?

[matty]

sideways wrote:

matty wrote:

as some of you might know i have just had a full engine rebuild on my g16b.
i have some big proglems with the motor since the build, just want to know what the bearing clearance and ring gaps are for this engine before i talk to engine builder to stay on top of things.
thanks for all your help everyone. fingers crossed.

Don't you have a workshop manual?

no

[losfer]

find another engine builder if you need to tell him the clearances.

[fordem]

losfer wrote:

find another engine builder if you need to tell him the clearances.

I can't DISAGREE more with this statement - even the most experienced machinist/mechanic/engine builder should not be expected to know everything about every engine - the last rebuild I did, the machinist asked if I had the shop manual - make no mistake, he could tell me off the top of his head, what the clearances should be, but he took the time & trouble to confirm those numbers against the FSM.

Yes - with experience he should have an idea as to what range the clearances should be in given the bore or journal size - but if he's worth his salt, he will go by what Suzuki says it should be.

For a G16b as used in a Grand Vitara

Crankshaft bearing clearance.

Standard - 0.02-0.04 mm (0.0008-0.0015 in)
Limit - 0.06 mm (0.0023 in)

Ring gaps

Top & second ring - Std 0.2-0.35 mm (0.0079-0.0137 in), Limit 0.7 mm (0.0275 in)
Oil ring - Std 0.2-0.7 mm (0.0079-0.0275 in), Limit 1.7 mm (0.0669 in)

[matty]

i wanted to know these numbers before i talk to the engine builder.
but thanks fordem for the helpfull post and not stating the obvious like some do.

[losfer]

fordem wrote:

losfer wrote:

find another engine builder if you need to tell him the clearances.

I can't DISAGREE more with this statement - even the most experienced machinist/mechanic/engine builder should not be expected to know everything about every engine - the last rebuild I did, the machinist asked if I had the shop manual - make no mistake, he could tell me off the top of his head, what the clearances should be, but he took the time & trouble to confirm those numbers against the FSM.

Yes - with experience he should have an idea as to what range the clearances should be in given the bore or journal size - but if he's worth his salt, he will go by what Suzuki says it should be.

For a G16b as used in a Grand Vitara

Crankshaft bearing clearance.

Standard - 0.02-0.04 mm (0.0008-0.0015 in)
Limit - 0.06 mm (0.0023 in)

Ring gaps

Top & second ring - Std 0.2-0.35 mm (0.0079-0.0137 in), Limit 0.7 mm (0.0275 in)
Oil ring - Std 0.2-0.7 mm (0.0079-0.0275 in), Limit 1.7 mm (0.0669 in)

so what you are saying , it doesnt matter whether it is turbo or n/a or high compression or std, the machinist should follow the manual ?

any decent machinist worth his salt will know how many thou gap on piston rings , and bearing clearances , for many different applications of engine build , the machinist should tell you what the specs should be.

the workshop manual is great dont get me wrong , but when they wrote it they werent writing it for people who modify the engine.

[ajsr]

agreed specs can change quite dramaiticly depending on the engine use and parts used .
forced induction , race etc will all require different clearances as will different piston and ring types, if built properly

[2stroker]

Well losfer lets do a little experiment, firstly you tell us what you do for a job and then I will ask you a series of questions, you will have 30 seconds to reply to the post with the correct answer or else you are "not worth your salt"

Unless you are specialising in a particular make and model you cannot be expected to pull clearances and tollerances out of your head. Realisticly how many 1800 Suzuki engines would that shop rebuild.

Matty has asked for the figures so that he has an idea of what he is asking when he speaks to the rebuilder.

I don't know any of the people involved in this but here is my educated guess, when this problem is finally sorted it will not be an engine rebuild problem. Remember that after getting the engine rebuilt it has had a second hand turbo off something bolted onto it with a home made manifold, injectors from something else, home made turbo oil feed system, repositioned oil pressure sender, etc etc etc.

[matty]

hi 2stroker, the setup that i have was running for 2 years without a problem and nothing was changed. all that happend was motor out, had full rebuild, then motor back in. the crankcase pressure is my main concern at the moment. hopfully its just the turbo.
thanks 2stroker.
pm sent mate.

[JrZook]

2stroker wrote:

Realisticly how many 1800 Suzuki engines would that shop rebuild.

I would assume not many

2stroker wrote:

particular make and model you cannot be expected to pull clearances and tollerances out of your head

Again what particular make model of engine/pistons/bearing are we talking about here? All genuine Suzuki?

Of course the book specs could be something to get a ballpoint figure about but agreeing with losfer, the machinist given the end application should have some sort of idea of what he is doing and spec accordingly.

If it has excessive piston to bore clearance indeed causing this crankcase pressure, piston slap would be quite evident on cold start up/running. Could also be a possibility that for some reason all the rings were positioned in a way that the ring gaps lined up which would also cause excessive crankcase pressure.

Matty:

Have you done that leakdown test yet? Or held the turbo waste gate wide open (or removed the intake from turbo to manifold) to see if it still has the same issue?

Fordem:

Do you have the Suzuki piston to wall clearance specs from the manual also?

Dan

[matty]

morning dan, engine builder is talking to the machine shop today and they will get back to me and we will go from there.
i am not going to play around with the engine without the engine builder being there with me and we can go through all the checks together.
hopefully this week. if he picks up his phone that is.

[fordem]

JrZook wrote:

Fordem:

Do you have the Suzuki piston to wall clearance specs from the manual also?

Dan

0.02-0.04 mm (0.0008-0.0015 in)

[losfer]

2stroker wrote:

Well losfer lets do a little experiment, firstly you tell us what you do for a job and then I will ask you a series of questions, you will have 30 seconds to reply to the post with the correct answer or else you are "not worth your salt"

Unless you are specialising in a particular make and model you cannot be expected to pull clearances and tollerances out of your head. Realisticly how many 1800 Suzuki engines would that shop rebuild.

Matty has asked for the figures so that he has an idea of what he is asking when he speaks to the rebuilder.

I don't know any of the people involved in this but here is my educated guess, when this problem is finally sorted it will not be an engine rebuild problem. Remember that after getting the engine rebuilt it has had a second hand turbo off something bolted onto it with a home made manifold, injectors from something else, home made turbo oil feed system, repositioned oil pressure sender, etc etc etc.

Suzuki specialist , fire away buddy

Ps : do you mean the m18 or the j18 engine ? i didnt know their model code was g16b..

[matty]

losfer wrote:

2stroker wrote:

Well losfer lets do a little experiment, firstly you tell us what you do for a job and then I will ask you a series of questions, you will have 30 seconds to reply to the post with the correct answer or else you are "not worth your salt"

Unless you are specialising in a particular make and model you cannot be expected to pull clearances and tollerances out of your head. Realisticly how many 1800 Suzuki engines would that shop rebuild.

Matty has asked for the figures so that he has an idea of what he is asking when he speaks to the rebuilder.

I don't know any of the people involved in this but here is my educated guess, when this problem is finally sorted it will not be an engine rebuild problem. Remember that after getting the engine rebuilt it has had a second hand turbo off something bolted onto it with a home made manifold, injectors from something else, home made turbo oil feed system, repositioned oil pressure sender, etc etc etc.

Suzuki specialist , fire away buddy

Ps : do you mean the m18 or the j18 engine ? i didnt know their model code was g16b..

be nice dave, dont get crankcase pressure.

[losfer]

heh you made a funny ..

[matty]

waiting for 2stroker are we.

[losfer]

no mate , im here to try and help people , and the last thing i want is to hijack your thread with having a shitfight with someone , so if he wants to test me , he can pm me.

[2stroker]

Ok lofser, you have 30 seconds:

What is the thickness of a standard reed valve from an LJ50 engine, no cheating now. ha ha

[2stroker]

Still waiting.................

[atari4x4]

since when did this turn into a pissing contest.

[2stroker]

It's not a pissing contest as far as I am concerned, my take is that you shouldn't say stuff like get a new engine builder, the guy is not worth his salt and the like. Especially since we have not even established if it is an engine rebuild problem or not.

My comments were not to upset lofser, what I ws getting at is it doesn't matter what job you do or what you specialise in you won't know everything off the top of your head for every application. Obviously specifications will need to change depending on application but knowing the original specs is the starting point from where they change.

I actually know who lofser is and I have read on the swift forums about the stuff that his business does on performance swifts. I know he has a heap of knowlege on Suzuki's and performance engines in general. My stupid challenge thing was just to make him think about what he was saying about another business.

I have no idea who built matty's engine or if the guy is any good or not. however we should give him the benifit of the doubt until it is shown that he has in fact cocked up the rebuild.

Again, matty was not asking for specs so that he could tell the engine builder what they were, he was finding out for himself so that when he spoke to the engine builder he had something to compare to the specs the builder had used.

[zukmeista]

^^^ You makes lots sense

[matty]

well the engine builder turned up today and we checked the turbo by holding waste gate open but still no change in crankcase pressure.

so compression test on monday night to see if there is a problem in just one piston or if its constant across all 4.
but as it looks now the engine is geting ripped out again and off to the machine shop to get stripped down to find out what's gone wrong. the list is getting shorter though.

1...engine builder
2...machine shop
3...tuner