[Che]

We need a good thread that goes over all the pros and cons of each type of light - everything I can find online goes back to a mountain bike forum or a hikers forum... but the day I find a pair of Lightforce 240 HIDs on a mountain bike is the day i'll sit up and listen.

I know the typical breakdown - LED is brighter over a short distance, HID for a long throw, and halogen in the middle... but that's a one sentence answer to a complicated topic.

Me personally - at this point i'm looking to convert a pair of Hella 4000's to 35W HID, and further down the line a light bar for a closer flood when i'm trundling along unsealed roads... but horses for courses, and each to their own - we all use our cars for different reasons, and we all have different budgets.


Before I throw down the hard earned coin I want to know more, like:
- what's cheaper to run long term
- what's safest and most reliable
- what colour light do you prefer to run, also benefits of each colour
- what's the best/most reliable unit of measuring light output
- how much light is overkill
- HIDs - buy them installed or convert a halogen spottie to save
- best HID kits you've come across
- dispersion/diffusion filters on hi output lights
- what type of light is best for spotting oncoming animals
- what light is best for 100kph, what is best for slow crawling
- how to judge a good LED from an average one
- round vs rectangle

Also:
- what's your favourite long throw light
- your favourite flood/wide beam
- best bang for buck light
- best light combo (ie - spot + flood, 2 x euro/combo, 2 x spot... you know what I mean)


Try and keep the chat brief, but if you have a good answer or a strong opinion, lay it down

[atari4x4]

- bang for buck, the Nitestalker range is impressive, their steel range lights are basically CIBIE clones. with a decent loom & good quality globes they'd be hard to beat $$$ wise, would also make for a good base for a cheap HID swap. i ran them for years, somehow i broke a spotlight mount off the bullbar on the GQ & didn't damage the light!

che_guitarra wrote:

Me personally - at this point i'm looking to convert a pair of Hella 4000's to 35W HID, and further down the line a light bar for a closer flood when i'm trundling along unsealed roads...

^^^ that with upgraded headlight loom + globes so you don't go light blind dropping back to low beam.

[royce]

stop thinking along the lines of different light types do different things and concentrate on the tech behind them

LED - Halogen - HID, lowest to highest lumen output per unit (in our case) hence why LED lights are made up of a whole heap of em

lumen for lumen bigger reflectors or lenses will focus the light better, so spit more of it down the road vs spill it all over the place. This is why LED bars are so poor at long range, its jsut not possible to harness the light effectively in the room given, if you were to build a big array with even 50mm dia reflectors for each LED or some how set them up pointing into a big parabolic reflector they could well out do HID in lumen per watt

[neofitou]

how about LED headlights?

[monley]

My setup soon will consist of:

-HID head light ( )
-Halogen pencil beam spotties
-12" LED light bar

I will see how that setup up goes and adjust it from there....

Once i have have set it all up Che you can check it out if you want...

[ajsr]

monkey wrote:

My setup soon will consist of:

-HID head light ( )
-Halogen pencil beam spotties
-12" LED light bar

I will see how that setup up goes and adjust it from there....

Once i have have set it all up Che you can check it out if you want...

I'd swap the first two around personally and if you run seperate high and low beam globes maybe run hid high beams.
hid lows are great but piss everyone else off

[shakes]

Has anyone done some proper wheeling with LED's only?

The couple of times I've ridden the MTB offroad at night on borrowed lights I've found that they give a pretty white flat shadowless scene which makes depth perception hard. But my shitty(now not then) old halogen is heaps easier to see by simply because it doesn't white out the shadows.

Is it just the brand of light I was using or is it common to LED's?

[alien]

shakes wrote:

Has anyone done some proper wheeling with LED's only?

The couple of times I've ridden the MTB offroad at night on borrowed lights I've found that they give a pretty white flat shadowless scene which makes depth perception hard. But my shitty(now not then) old halogen is heaps easier to see by simply because it doesn't white out the shadows.

Is it just the brand of light I was using or is it common to LED's?

thats the experience i have with LED... sure im talking a torch, but its the same deal.... once i went to a bigger, better LED torch though it made a huge difference and wasnt so "flat"... but i would see it as a difference over halogen. Thats where buying LED with a warmer colour temperature would help i think.

run of the mill LED spots imo are great for offroad crawling kinda stuff - theyre small, low draw and have a good flood of light. I still can't see them being better than halogen/hid for distance work.

[bakerboy]

was going to with my 2 bars but didnt end up making it out, if i still have them this saturday night, wanna do a night run monkey? nothing hard and would prefer to avoid puddles haha

[SLYjoel]

ajsr wrote:

monkey wrote:

My setup soon will consist of:

-HID head light ( )
-Halogen pencil beam spotties
-12" LED light bar

I will see how that setup up goes and adjust it from there....

Once i have have set it all up Che you can check it out if you want...

I'd swap the first two around personally and if you run seperate high and low beam globes maybe run hid high beams.
hid lows are great but piss everyone else off

That issue with HIDs can easily be overcome, and cheaply too:

http://www.auszookers.com/index.php?nam ... ic&t=27315

[monley]

bakerboy wrote:

was going to with my 2 bars but didnt end up making it out, if i still have them this saturday night, wanna do a night run monkey? nothing hard and would prefer to avoid puddles haha

Not this sat night(mud flatts) but maybe the next?

Check these out for home made jobbies

http://bigjimny.com/index.php?option=co ... &Itemid=75

[Che]

monkey wrote:

My setup soon will consist of:

-HID head light ( )
-Halogen pencil beam spotties
-12" LED light bar

I will see how that setup up goes and adjust it from there....

Once i have have set it all up Che you can check it out if you want...

I'm keen for a long run around to Esperance or even up to Broome before xmas, so i'll probably have a pair of Hellas by then. But i'll come check it out to see how it goes.

I went and saw Bakerboy's LED bars the other night and they were fantastic, especially for the price. Now i'm keen to see the difference between a $500 40" bar and a $1500 one... to see if there's 5 - 10% difference or a 100% difference.

Also with HID's - is there a reason I can save $500 on a set of decent lights if I install HID myself - I mean, have they really changed the reflector design to best suit HIDs, or what's the advantage to buying factory HID?

[ajsr]

SLYjoel wrote:

ajsr wrote:

monkey wrote:

My setup soon will consist of:

-HID head light ( )
-Halogen pencil beam spotties
-12" LED light bar

I will see how that setup up goes and adjust it from there....

Once i have have set it all up Che you can check it out if you want...

I'd swap the first two around personally and if you run seperate high and low beam globes maybe run hid high beams.
hid lows are great but piss everyone else off

That issue with HIDs can easily be overcome, and cheaply too:

http://www.auszookers.com/index.php?nam ... ic&t=27315

I have a car with factory hid's, and have read your thread.
As good as I think your conversion is , I hate that cut off light on low beam.
Its great around town but where I live you get good light right in front of you and the just black beyond that. so when you dip your lights at 100km/h for an oncoming car you have abosultely no idea whats in front of you until you switch back to high beam.

if I could take the factory hid out I would in a heart beat.

[atari4x4]

che_guitarra wrote:

Also with HID's - is there a reason I can save $500 on a set of decent lights if I install HID myself - I mean, have they really changed the reflector design to best suit HIDs, or what's the advantage to buying factory HID?

it's a matter of getting the globe position/spacing correct when doing the DIY route.

shakes, colour is huge factor in lighting. the lack of colour from the LED's wouldn't help + the floodlight effect & the way we see different wavelengths. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_vision

[monley]

If i was doing LOTS of night driving i would get these in a heart beat...



Light force 210 genesis 50watt HID

$950 for a pair from opposite lock!

[ajsr]

atari4x4 wrote:

che_guitarra wrote:

Also with HID's - is there a reason I can save $500 on a set of decent lights if I install HID myself - I mean, have they really changed the reflector design to best suit HIDs, or what's the advantage to buying factory HID?

it's a matter of getting the globe position/spacing correct when doing the DIY route.

shakes, colour is huge factor in lighting. the lack of colour from the LED's wouldn't help + the floodlight effect & the way we see different wavelengths. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_vision

X2
Ive tried several colors temps in hid. 4300k , 5000k and 6000k
my personal preference is 6000k as I feel it gives a better overall view of everything out there.but its quite white. these days I run 100w hids in my spots at 6000k

4300k was too yellow and I found it was hard to see shades of green shit on the sides of the road.

my brother likes 5000k best, so its personal pref I guess

[britvit]

I'm liking the look of these, 24 volts and billet bases I don't like the price though.
http://fyrlyt.com/

[bakerboy]

monkey wrote:

bakerboy wrote:

was going to with my 2 bars but didnt end up making it out, if i still have them this saturday night, wanna do a night run monkey? nothing hard and would prefer to avoid puddles haha

Not this sat night(mud flatts) but maybe the next?

Done, assuming you guys dont grab the lights off me

[shep]

bosswomans GV

standard 2010 grand vitara low beam




low beam plus 120w light bar



light bar with 55w 4300k hid high beam



the light bar is pretty close to the ground which apparently isn't the go but i am happy with how it works.

[Che]

Wow Shep - i'd almost call that the perfect setup. A great throw of light everywhere you'd want it, and it hasn't taken 1000 watts of lighting to get the results.

[squizzytaylor]

royce wrote:

stop thinking along the lines of different light types do different things and concentrate on the tech behind them

LED - Halogen - HID, lowest to highest lumen output per unit (in our case) hence why LED lights are made up of a whole heap of em

lumen for lumen bigger reflectors or lenses will focus the light better, so spit more of it down the road vs spill it all over the place. This is why LED bars are so poor at long range, its jsut not possible to harness the light effectively in the room given, if you were to build a big array with even 50mm dia reflectors for each LED or some how set them up pointing into a big parabolic reflector they could well out do HID in lumen per watt

LED is all over halogen and hid, Ive seen demo's of both 50watt and 100 watt LED's and they are fucking amazing (without the need for reflectors), the only issue is the cost to produce them, however, just as 10watt LED's were available yet unaffordable 5 years ago in the next few years big watt led's will become the norm. Currently the issue with "harnessing" the light is 99% because of their surface mount design, this will be a thing of the past shortly. HID's have the same problem with their element usually running parallel to the ground which is why they normally have a reflector shield in front of the globe which reflects back onto the light.
The other thing that gets me is the fascination with long penetrating light, its not the roo 1km down the road that youre going to hit, its the one 50 metres down the road thats 45 degrees to the car. I used to do 1500-2500 k's a week for an auto elec wholesaler anywhere from Newcastle-lightning ridge-grafton-dubbo and had hid headlights, 2 x rallye 4000's (halogen) and a 36" light bar (combo pattern) on the bumper and by far the most useful was the light bar, still had a reflective range well over 300metres.

GT

[shep]

che_guitarra wrote:

Wow Shep - i'd almost call that the perfect setup. A great throw of light everywhere you'd want it, and it hasn't taken 1000 watts of lighting to get the results.

total cost for 120w light bar and 55w hid kit was $350 so awesome bang for the $

[Poita]

So from what I can figure from reading all the different threads on this and looking at the pics, the ideal setup for me would be a light bar in the center and 2 HID spots either side. All would be mounted on the roofrack up high.

Oh and the upgraded light loom for the high/low lights. I have already got better globes.

[alien]

then just paint your bonnet matt black so its not reflecting all that light in your face and ruining your night vision =)

[Poita]

LOL true! It's white as well which won't help... though it's generally pretty dirty

[atari4x4]

if your roof lights are mounted correctly you shouldn't get any light on your bonnet.

[shep]

Poita wrote:

LOL true! It's white as well which won't help... though it's generally pretty dirty

If ya put the lights in the right spot then the roof will cast a shaddow on the bonnet

[atari4x4]

shep wrote:

Poita wrote:

LOL true! It's white as well which won't help... though it's generally pretty dirty

If ya put the lights in the right spot then the roof will cast a shaddow on the bonnet

yep, a string line from the front edge of the bonnet, running back to the roofline will give you a good idea on how far back they'll need to be.

[Poita]

I have the Calmini roof rack with the spot light mounts which I want to use. From memory they sit a little back from the roof edge but I drove the Legnum to work today so will have to check tonight.

[shep]

squizzytaylor wrote:

royce wrote:

stop thinking along the lines of different light types do different things and concentrate on the tech behind them

LED - Halogen - HID, lowest to highest lumen output per unit (in our case) hence why LED lights are made up of a whole heap of em

lumen for lumen bigger reflectors or lenses will focus the light better, so spit more of it down the road vs spill it all over the place. This is why LED bars are so poor at long range, its jsut not possible to harness the light effectively in the room given, if you were to build a big array with even 50mm dia reflectors for each LED or some how set them up pointing into a big parabolic reflector they could well out do HID in lumen per watt

LED is all over halogen and hid, Ive seen demo's of both 50watt and 100 watt LED's and they are fucking amazing (without the need for reflectors), the only issue is the cost to produce them, however, just as 10watt LED's were available yet unaffordable 5 years ago in the next few years big watt led's will become the norm. Currently the issue with "harnessing" the light is 99% because of their surface mount design, this will be a thing of the past shortly. HID's have the same problem with their element usually running parallel to the ground which is why they normally have a reflector shield in front of the globe which reflects back onto the light.
The other thing that gets me is the fascination with long penetrating light, its not the roo 1km down the road that youre going to hit, its the one 50 metres down the road thats 45 degrees to the car. I used to do 1500-2500 k's a week for an auto elec wholesaler anywhere from Newcastle-lightning ridge-grafton-dubbo and had hid headlights, 2 x rallye 4000's (halogen) and a 36" light bar (combo pattern) on the bumper and by far the most useful was the light bar, still had a reflective range well over 300metres.

GT

up here we have big slow moving animals as well, roos are no worries to mow down but
horses, donkeys, cattle and camels are a different story.