[squibby]

I just contacted an engineerng signatory to be informed that the schem has changed for this year, Now the new scheme is call VSCCS. So I looked up the new list of engineering signatories and the list has shrunk massively. Now there is none local to Newcastle, I have to go to Sydney.

Anyway contacted Sydney engineer and first information provided is that I should expect the costs for a certificate to be massively pricier. I was udner the impression that it used to cost about $400? but now is something more like between $1000 - $2000. My vehicle has minor mods so i expect it will be the lower price, but it's a bit unfortunate!!!

The Engineer noted that the costs have gone up due to the fees charged by the RTA!

I'm astonished, seems that modifying vehicles legally is now going to be the preserve of fewer people in NSW anyway.

[BlueSuzy]

True. It changed last year.

Ongoing projects in engineering progress have 6mths to complete to old rules. (June)

[31zook]

Much like the dump and other government ideas, there becoming too hard And expensive to do so no one is going to bother...

I'm hoping the police don't get all strict or anything... Athol is on holidays and is talking with the RTA about stuff before he signs up.... I don't know how he does it, I wouldn't of lasted half as long as him...

[squibby]

I guess it's all relative. If you're building a road legal competition car or a show and shine hotrod then the certificate is say under 5% of your project costs. If you just want to slap an M18 into your jimny then it doubles your costs.

[BlueSuzy]

squibby wrote:

I guess it's all relative. If you're building a road legal competition car or a show and shine hotrod then the certificate is say under 5% of your project costs. If you just want to slap an M18 into your jimny then it doubles your costs.

Yeah, most people won't bother engineering anymore with people who know people. Pinkslips etc

There will still be the same amount of modified cars on the road.

[squibby]

Wow, guess what, I just literally got told over the phone that my vehicle cannot be engineered because the new enngine size was not factory fitment and I will have to undergo brake tests involving the hiring of a test track, and that I probably cannot afford it.

What the hell is going on?

[Fatzook]

squibby wrote:

Wow, guess what, I just literally got told over the phone that my vehicle cannot be engineered because the new enngine size was not factory fitment and I will have to undergo brake tests involving the hiring of a test track, and that I probably cannot afford it.

What the hell is going on?

get another opinion. Unfortunately these rules are all to often open to interpretation.

Under the old rules the biggest motor a 1.3L could have without jumping through hoops was a 1.6L. You are outside that with your 1.8, so I would imagine that you would have had to take the same course of action to obtain engineering then, as you do now.

[alien]

sounds like you lot are getting the laws WA has had for years.

by making the engineering process more difficult all theyre doing is encouraging people to drive illegal vehicles.... they think that tightening the rules means less people will modify but its so not true. Before i modded my sierra it was common to hear of all sorts of 4wds being engineered and approved for road use, because it was a relatively simple process that didnt cost an arm and a leg.

Nowadays no one even bothers enquiring about engineering cos nothings passable anymore.

[squibby]

Fatzook wrote:

squibby wrote:

Wow, guess what, I just literally got told over the phone that my vehicle cannot be engineered because the new enngine size was not factory fitment and I will have to undergo brake tests involving the hiring of a test track, and that I probably cannot afford it.

What the hell is going on?

get another opinion. Unfortunately these rules are all to often open to interpretation.

Under the old rules the biggest motor a 1.3L could have without jumping through hoops was a 1.6L. You are outside that with your 1.8, so I would imagine that you would have had to take the same course of action to obtain engineering then, as you do now.

You know what you are talking about, but the note on that Guideline said that 4x4 are exempt under the old rules. Jimny is a true 4x4.

[Fatzook]

squibby wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

squibby wrote:

Wow, guess what, I just literally got told over the phone that my vehicle cannot be engineered because the new enngine size was not factory fitment and I will have to undergo brake tests involving the hiring of a test track, and that I probably cannot afford it.

What the hell is going on?

get another opinion. Unfortunately these rules are all to often open to interpretation.

Under the old rules the biggest motor a 1.3L could have without jumping through hoops was a 1.6L. You are outside that with your 1.8, so I would imagine that you would have had to take the same course of action to obtain engineering then, as you do now.

You know what you are talking about, but the note on that Guideline said that 4x4 are exempt under the old rules. Jimny is a true 4x4.

fair enough. 4x4's are not exempt in QLD unless they are rego'd as commercial vehicles.

[BlueSuzy]

what motor is in yours atm? 1.5L for a jim is ok with no engineering in old rules.

[squibby]

As per title this is nsw rules I'm talking about.

Yeah I've already started getting a second opinion. Looking for some common sense really, although I think all engineering signatories will generally have a lot of common sense, just wondering what they are afraid of.

[Fatzook]

BlueSuzy wrote:

what motor is in yours atm? 1.5L for a jim is ok with no engineering in old rules.

He has M18

[Chop]

alien wrote:

sounds like you lot are getting the laws WA has had for years.

by making the engineering process more difficult all theyre doing is encouraging people to drive illegal vehicles.... they think that tightening the rules means less people will modify but its so not true. Before i modded my sierra it was common to hear of all sorts of 4wds being engineered and approved for road use, because it was a relatively simple process that didnt cost an arm and a leg.

Nowadays no one even bothers enquiring about engineering cos nothings passable anymore.

Tightening the rules, and charging more just makes it easier for them to pass out fines as revenue raising.
Its the way of the future

[alien]

i think its more likely leading to a "zero modifications" standard. There's probably paperwork somewhere outlining a timeline to phase out engineered modifications.

Given that 4wd manufacturers are also being brought to their knees by safety standards and the population in general making their vehicles less capable offroad, it wont be long before "hardcore" 4wding reverts back to the 60's and 70's where everyone's driving near-on stock vehicles offroad.

[buzbox]

Crunts !!!

I was under the impression that it would cost about the same. If it's about $1000+ big bannanas, well I won't be getting it engineered, which is unfortunate because it is something that should be done but I might as well keep some standard parts in the shed and go through the bullshit I'm going through now all over again. Or sell up and get something else.

I've been having some issues with an engineer down here, first it was that I have to wait for the new rules to be put in and to call him back the following week. I don't see why he couldn't still do a report but he refused to. I then call up the following week only for him to say that he wasn't going to do anymore for the year and I should call back within the first week of the new year. I did so only to be told to call back next month.

I think this new scheme will be doing more bad than good in the sense that it discourages people of doing the right thing.

[squibby]

Yeah, It's easy to point at these engineers that made you wait and the one who sent me away, but it must be down to the new Scheme as the source of the issues. I can only think there has been some serious scaremongery from those introducing the scheme to make everyone so anxious. Whats happened? Can't think the rules have changed, its just a fresh way of reporting and recording modifications isn't it, and some enforcement on an appropriate level of insurance for the assessors. Why is it affecting the customer so much? Paying more for a service is one thing, but being refused it another even worse.

[royce]

Because NSW has had it piss easy to get all sorts of borderline stupid shit approved for years and instead of appreciating what they had wankers kept pushing the limits and now its been ruined for everyone

Now NSW has to play by the same rules as the rest of the country, sucked in

[stocker]

royce wrote:

Because NSW has had it piss easy to get all sorts of borderline stupid shit approved for years and instead of appreciating what they had wankers kept pushing the limits and now its been ruined for everyone

Now NSW has to play by the same rules as the rest of the country, sucked in

Thats Just Bollocks...

Yes People have pushed the boundaries... but Not all of us do it stupid...

its all these Crunts who drive around in 6" lifted cruisers without drop boxes, steering modifications... etc...

Fuck them all... I won't Be engineering my Suzuki in a hurry... especially not at those costs...


I already pay

Stamp duty
Tax on Rego
Tax on Fuel
Tax on Parts
Tax on Carbon Emissions (indirectly)
Tax on my income to Pay for all of this....


Im just waiting for the Oxygen Tax...

The RTA - Robbing Thieves Association

[royce]

stocker wrote:

royce wrote:

Because NSW has had it piss easy to get all sorts of borderline stupid shit approved for years and instead of appreciating what they had wankers kept pushing the limits and now its been ruined for everyone

Now NSW has to play by the same rules as the rest of the country, sucked in

Thats Just Bollocks...

Yes People have pushed the boundaries... but Not all of us do it stupid...

its all these Crunts who drive around in 6" lifted cruisers without drop boxes, steering modifications... etc...

Fuck them all... I won't Be engineering my Suzuki in a hurry... especially not at those costs...


I already pay

Stamp duty
Tax on Rego
Tax on Fuel
Tax on Parts
Tax on Carbon Emissions (indirectly)
Tax on my income to Pay for all of this....


Im just waiting for the Oxygen Tax...

The RTA - Robbing Thieves Association

So what? how are you any more entitled that the guy beside you in traffic in a stock commodore that pays all the same thing? He might even be an engineer so could have a slight clue on what he is doing should he want to modify stuff so may even be more entitled that you.

Face it, NSW has been all about build something then ring around till you get somebody to take a donation from you and give you a bit of paper, have you even ever had a set of hard standards they operate from or do they have the final say? Why should car manufacturers have to comply to a set of stringent standards and joe average not?

[mcwilly]

I'm happy to pay $2000 to have my vehicles engineered that isn't the major issue. Money is money and things always go up in price this will never change.

The thing that bugs me is that if I am $100 or $2000 I wanna know that the piece of paper that I have with an engineers signature on it is legit and that the guy that has done the cert is smarter then your average c@ck of a policeman. Fair enough make it expensive make defined guidelines but if I have passed and I pull out that bit of paper I expect to drive away without a notice for a full inspection at the pits.

Mine is engineered now for spoa body lift etc etc but still get hassled. Their opinion is you have passed once do it again

[alien]

mcwilly wrote:

Mine is engineered now for spoa body lift etc etc but still get hassled. Their opinion is you have passed once do it again

i've not been pulled over in the nearly 4 years since mine was modded and engineered... it might pay in your case to consult a lawyer of sorts to see what you can say to the officer that tells them to get fucked...

it does seem odd though - do you have lots of speeding fines or a record that would encourage them to hound you?? when i was on my P plates i had a LOT of speeding fines and got pulled over at least once a week often more, for "random" breath tests or to ask me if i knew how fast i was going (even if i was doing the limit).

[ball]

mcwilly wrote:

I'm happy to pay $2000 to have my vehicles engineered that isn't the major issue. Money is money and things always go up in price this will never change.

The thing that bugs me is that if I am $100 or $2000 I wanna know that the piece of paper that I have with an engineers signature on it is legit and that the guy that has done the cert is smarter then your average c@ck of a policeman. Fair enough make it expensive make defined guidelines but if I have passed and I pull out that bit of paper I expect to drive away without a notice for a full inspection at the pits.

Mine is engineered now for spoa body lift etc etc but still get hassled. Their opinion is you have passed once do it again

If you read what Royce wrote you will start to get an idea for a valid reason why they make you re-do inspections.

[stocker]

If its old mate's buisness to keep his commodore stock then thats his Buisness not mine...


I would just like to make it clear to you, that Everyone should have the right to modify their Car's the right way, and why should we have to pay through the nose just because We ( I say We - refering to people who go the right way about modifying their cars Not El-Dodgy backyard Customs )
wish to modify our cars.

yes thats right everyone get their violins out...

Just because mr Richy Rich (not referring to anyone) can afford to pay for a Test track, and all the engineers under the sun, To pass his car... How does that make this system fair.
I can't afford to fork out 5 - 7 thousand dollars to hire a track and an engineers labour for a couple of days Just to get my Vehicle Engineered.

Im not going to say and "why should i have to" because i have more sense and logic than that... I understand that yes ADR's have to be conformed to. but why do I need a specific piece of paper that costs 5-7thousand.

Go through the ADR's... Body blocks aren't illegal, other wise every stock standard NH Pajero would be illegal Come stock standard on Body Blocks.

My Head lights aren't too high. Or too Low. and i have installed Extra Park Lights, and ADR Compliant Blinkers on the Bull Bar.

I Have extended the Rear Bumpstops so as not to cause undue Body Roll with the lifted suspension.

I have Retained my Sway Bar which was designed for use with the Suspension kit i use.

i will be upgrading not only my brakes, but my master cylinder too To combat the Larger Tyres.

I have extended my mudflaps so they cover the 31's.

I have Flares to Install To Cover the 31's

The Suspension kit fitted is Stronger than the original, ie: Trailing arms, Rear heim joint, Front Control arms.




I have gone over and above my way to comply with the ADR's and current NSW Road Rules, and now your telling me that all this is going to waste because i can't afford a test track.

Nuts to that. Tell that to your average joebloke driving around in his Shitbox piece of junk that has not been maintained and shouldn't pass a Pink Slip (roadworthy)

[mcwilly]

Speeding fines, records, murder it doesnt matter if I am pulled over and the car they are questioning at the time is engineered and matches the papers then I don't see why I should be sent to the pits.

They should look at the issue at the time not take the past into it has nothing to do with the car being safe or not. I understand what you are getting at but it shouldn't be an issue.

This is another thing noone probably thinks about when modifying. If you change exhausts or carbys or enraging engine performance related and try and get engineered you will need to do a IM240 emissions test. Which I garuantee you won't pass easily if at all. New falcons don't pass from the factory and the hi performance guys are struggling even with different fuels. Why should a modified car be penalised by being taken off the road. Why not go for the emissions test see what it puts out and if it's over adjust the price of people's regos depending on the output off the car. This money should go to improving emissions of other things.

Again this is making it more expensive to have a modified car but if this is what you want (driving modified cars/4x4) then I say it's a compromise. The way it's going now they are just going to make it illegal and we'll all be off the road but if they see some $$$$ then they might go for it.

It's sad to think that it is all about $$$ but at the end of the day people will be unsafe in a standard or modified sierra or a standard Holden barina or a 500hp hot hatch.

All comes down to they make money off engineering and testing and defecting the vehicles off the road win win for the government

[ball]

stocker wrote:

If its old mate's buisness to keep his commodore stock then thats his Buisness not mine...


I would just like to make it clear to you, that Everyone should have the right to modify their Car's the right way, and why should we have to pay through the nose just because We ( I say We - refering to people who go the right way about modifying their cars Not El-Dodgy backyard Customs )
wish to modify our cars.

yes thats right everyone get their violins out...

Just because mr Richy Rich (not referring to anyone) can afford to pay for a Test track, and all the engineers under the sun, To pass his car... How does that make this system fair.
I can't afford to fork out 5 - 7 thousand dollars to hire a track and an engineers labour for a couple of days Just to get my Vehicle Engineered.

Im not going to say and "why should i have to" because i have more sense and logic than that... I understand that yes ADR's have to be conformed to. but why do I need a specific piece of paper that costs 5-7thousand.

Go through the ADR's... Body blocks aren't illegal, other wise every stock standard NH Pajero would be illegal Come stock standard on Body Blocks.

My Head lights aren't too high. Or too Low. and i have installed Extra Park Lights, and ADR Compliant Blinkers on the Bull Bar.

I Have extended the Rear Bumpstops so as not to cause undue Body Roll with the lifted suspension.

I have Retained my Sway Bar which was designed for use with the Suspension kit i use.

i will be upgrading not only my brakes, but my master cylinder too To combat the Larger Tyres.

I have extended my mudflaps so they cover the 31's.

I have Flares to Install To Cover the 31's

The Suspension kit fitted is Stronger than the original, ie: Trailing arms, Rear heim joint, Front Control arms.




I have gone over and above my way to comply with the ADR's and current NSW Road Rules, and now your telling me that all this is going to waste because i can't afford a test track.

Nuts to that. Tell that to your average joebloke driving around in his Shitbox piece of junk that has not been maintained and shouldn't pass a Pink Slip (roadworthy)

How do you guarantee that all the work you have done to your vehicle actually complies with relevant ADR's and is still safe.

Take you brakes for example. What qualification do you have to prove that you have increased your brake system enough to counteract any negative issues you cause with your bigger tyres?

The engineer that is signing of on your work is putting hit balls on the line if you have a crash that is caused by your modifications.

It is called covering your ass.

[ball]

mcwilly wrote:

Speeding fines, records, murder it doesnt matter if I am pulled over and the car they are questioning at the time is engineered and matches the papers then I don't see why I should be sent to the pits.

They should look at the issue at the time not take the past into it has nothing to do with the car being safe or not. I understand what you are getting at but it shouldn't be an issue.

This is another thing noone probably thinks about when modifying. If you change exhausts or carbys or enraging engine performance related and try and get engineered you will need to do a IM240 emissions test. Which I garuantee you won't pass easily if at all. New falcons don't pass from the factory and the hi performance guys are struggling even with different fuels. Why should a modified car be penalised by being taken off the road. Why not go for the emissions test see what it puts out and if it's over adjust the price of people's regos depending on the output off the car. This money should go to improving emissions of other things.

Again this is making it more expensive to have a modified car but if this is what you want (driving modified cars/4x4) then I say it's a compromise. The way it's going now they are just going to make it illegal and we'll all be off the road but if they see some $$$$ then they might go for it.

It's sad to think that it is all about $$$ but at the end of the day people will be unsafe in a standard or modified sierra or a standard Holden barina or a 500hp hot hatch.

All comes down to they make money off engineering and testing and defecting the vehicles off the road win win for the government

Not in the NT. We don't have that shit here.

[stocker]

Because im upgrade the Braking system to something that comes out Stock Standard with 31" Tyres

So i guess there's no real argument there

[alien]

i dont know where you got $5-7k for a lane change test from... my half day at the track with only 2 other vehicles cost me $600... that included the engineer's time, a driver and the track hire... the rest of the engineering process (inspections during and after the build) cost me a further $700. (he had a long drive each way to inspect progress so that is charged).

The application to modify the vehicle is totally free here... my most recent application late last year was approved within 3 weeks. The only money the government got from my modifications was the $80 it costs to go over the pits once the engineer has signed off.

Granted, i didnt have to undergo a braking test or emissions... but even then my current application for rear disc conversion doesn't require a brake test that destroys my brakes, just the engineer conducts the test with me to ensure the rear wont lock up before the front at 40km/hr.

[royce]

stocker wrote:

If its old mate's buisness to keep his commodore stock then thats his Buisness not mine...


I would just like to make it clear to you, that Everyone should have the right to modify their Car's the right way, and why should we have to pay through the nose just because We ( I say We - refering to people who go the right way about modifying their cars Not El-Dodgy backyard Customs )
wish to modify our cars.

yes thats right everyone get their violins out...

Just because mr Richy Rich (not referring to anyone) can afford to pay for a Test track, and all the engineers under the sun, To pass his car... How does that make this system fair.
I can't afford to fork out 5 - 7 thousand dollars to hire a track and an engineers labour for a couple of days Just to get my Vehicle Engineered.

Im not going to say and "why should i have to" because i have more sense and logic than that... I understand that yes ADR's have to be conformed to. but why do I need a specific piece of paper that costs 5-7thousand.

Go through the ADR's... Body blocks aren't illegal, other wise every stock standard NH Pajero would be illegal Come stock standard on Body Blocks.

My Head lights aren't too high. Or too Low. and i have installed Extra Park Lights, and ADR Compliant Blinkers on the Bull Bar.

I Have extended the Rear Bumpstops so as not to cause undue Body Roll with the lifted suspension.

I have Retained my Sway Bar which was designed for use with the Suspension kit i use.

i will be upgrading not only my brakes, but my master cylinder too To combat the Larger Tyres.

I have extended my mudflaps so they cover the 31's.

I have Flares to Install To Cover the 31's

The Suspension kit fitted is Stronger than the original, ie: Trailing arms, Rear heim joint, Front Control arms.




I have gone over and above my way to comply with the ADR's and current NSW Road Rules, and now your telling me that all this is going to waste because i can't afford a test track.

Nuts to that. Tell that to your average joebloke driving around in his Shitbox piece of junk that has not been maintained and shouldn't pass a Pink Slip (roadworthy)

Everything I have bolded there is a perfect example, you think youve done the right thing but those statements show vital flaws in why you think something is so.

I might be able to design some bits of steel together to hold something up and not kill anyone but it doesnt mean I should be given an engineers degree, likewise somebody tiles their house they arent a tiler are they.

I have the right is a damn powerful phrase, every Tom Dick and law abiding Harry around you also has the right to know your vehicle operates to a set of standards, how can anyone know that without testing? Shit I reckon Between em Ford, Toyota and Holden probably almost know as much about cars as you think you do and could likely knock something up thats pretty good but they still have to do testing and prove it, nobody takes their word for it and just goes, yep righto heres your build plates/