[christover1]

Any advantages/disadvantages to either type.
Thought I wanted electric,
but mechanicals seem to come up cheaper.

Looking round the wreckers was a bit dead end.
So probably will be a new one.

Found an ebay unused 2nd hand one,
but don't like its temp range.
Am told optimum temp for an AW4 in a Vit
is between 50 - 80C, 120 - 180 F
Many seem to start at 140F to a bazzillion.

Damn hard to get a metric one, also, oddly.

Still arguing with myself on the position of sender.
T section in the cooling line looks easiest.

Auto bloke said he'd take sump off to fit a sender,
if I get fluid change and filter at same time..which is appealing.

[Gwagensteve]

Electric
Metric
Cooler line output, as close to the trans as possible
140f to a bazillion is exactly the range you want. It doesn't matter if the trans is under 50c, it matters a lot if it is over, say 120c. If your gauge doesn't read over, say, 100c, you'll never know if you have hurt the transmission.

Have a look at the VDO gauge wholesale automatics uses.

Steve

[christover1]

Ordered one of these from ebay, today.
Should be here by end of January 2012.
Best Metric reading, electric I can get, within bujet.
It will be a guide, if it ain't accurate.
Probly mount in console, next to T- bar.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ws/eBayISAPI ... 0783512511

[christover1]

Arrived and fitted.
Many thanks all. AZ rocks.

[Scrawny]

Looks good Chris

[christover1]

In all my internet searches,
I have only found one reference to what temp of trans should be,
and that was for AW4 in a Jeep, not a Vitara.
It said 50 - 80 *C (125 - 176 F, me thinks it was)
Anyone have links, or info on the correct temps.

[TheOtherLeft]

Does anyone know how accurate these digital gauges are compared to the brand name analogue ones, eg autogage, VDO etc?

[christover1]

I'll borrow a temp gun, and check it out in the future,
though I doubt its accurate,
and they would depend on sender placement, too.
But it will give me an idea whats normal, so I know if summit goes unnormal.

[Gwagensteve]

Why would it be less accurate? The sender will be the same?

50-80 degrees is fine. I'd say anything under about 110 degrees is also fine for short periods, but the lower the better.

Steve.

[TheOtherLeft]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Why would it be less accurate? The sender will be the same?
Steve.

So what makes a cheap gauge less accurate then an expensive gauge, either digital or analogue? If you use the same brand sender cheap/expensive gauges should read the same???

[christover1]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Why would it be less accurate?
Steve.

Cheap, very, is only reason,
but of course I am hoping it is accurate.
Time will tell.

Quick drive this evening saw 75 - 80 mostly,
with jumps to 90 idling in peak traffic.
So may turn out to be fairly accurate.
Need some varying weather and situations to try it.

Going to run with and without radiator cooler,
just to see what changes.

[Gwagensteve]

Are cheap gauges less accurate than expensive gauges? - serious question -

How do you prove either way? Against a traceable calibration standard? If a cheap gauge is, say, 5% less accurate than an expensive gauge does it even matter that much? Would it matter if Christover's auto was at 80C or 84C? - I don't think so. It would only matter if it should be at 80ish and was showing 110ish

There's a reason factory temp/pressure gauges don't generally carry a calibration - It's to stop everyone arguing about poofteenths of nothing. If it's in the red, worry. If not, don't worry.

Gauges with actual numbers on them lead to exactly this sort of discussion because then everyone gets very concerned about the numbers and forgets the important bit - there's millions of autos out there with no gauges on them at all and they manage fine. There's millions of cars out there without oil pressure gauges on them and they also get about just fine too. Knowing when to worry is the key, and that's well outside of the tolerance of a gauge.

Generally, the cooler an auto runs the better. A stock vitara has a trans "cooler" in the bottom tank of the radiator. The assumption therefore is that the auto will be running hotter than the bottom tank of the radiator, so I would have thought 80C+ would be still considered normal.

I think a temp gauge is important on an auto in our application because if we are using the auto fully off road, the auto is going to get hotter than "normal" and it's worth knowing if we are risking damage. I would say over 100 and I'd be letting things cool off. I think this is conservative. I've heard 250F/120C as a maximum figure before damage can be expected.

PS don't forget that gauges are "branded" products that people like to pay money for, and your $ may well be buying reliability as much as accuracy.

[TheOtherLeft]

Well are cheaper brands less reliable then more expensive brands? I suppose only history can tell you this.

The new fad looks like stepper motor gauges which in theory should be more reliable (have a longer service life) but these are lots of $$$.

[christover1]

I was including reliability as part of accuracy in my comments,
but yes they are actually different things.

I'm hoping for both

[christover1]

A bit more internetting reveals that the temp sender in hot line can expect higher temps,
than that of the oil pan fitted sender.
So 50 - 80 is a pan figure.
The hot line temp can be much higher safely.
And will fluctuate more.
Worth considering during testing.

Hoping to be ok without upsizing my Aux cooler.
Don't wish to replumb radiator cooler unless necessary.
If needed will run a 2nd cooler, or a biggerer one.

[Gwagensteve]

I'm surprised that anyone would be interested in the pan temperature. I'm sure it's quite possible to smoke an auto with the pan reading 80deg.
IMHO it's all about the temperature the fluid is leaving the auto. My gauge will be going on the output of the auto to the cooler. I want to know how bad the hot side is, not pat myself on the back about how good my cooler is.

Steve.

[christover1]

Gwagensteve wrote:

I'm surprised that anyone would be interested in the pan temperature. I'm sure it's quite possible to smoke an auto with the pan reading 80deg.
IMHO it's all about the temperature the fluid is leaving the auto. My gauge will be going on the output of the auto to the cooler. I want to know how bad the hot side is, not pat myself on the back about how good my cooler is.

Steve.

Out put from Auto ie converter is the highest temperature, and can safely hit 300F according to This page

[christover1]

Fitted my sender on the output soft line,
was easier, cheaper and out of harms way, off road.
This arvo I needed to go to Box Hill, Camberwell, then back to Croydon.
Sat mostly on 80 - 90, tho was only 75 for the first half hour.
peaked at 95 a couple of times, but came down quickly once moving again.
Not enough of a test to draw conclusions from,
but I may get away with just the aux cooler.
As You said once, no problems plumbing in a 2nd if needed,
could be easier mounting two small, than one big cooler on the Vit.

[christover1]

Could make a difference once I put fresh fluid in, too, I'm guessing.
The fluid in it now was probably cooked by the old overheating dead donk.

[Gwagensteve]

christover1 wrote:

Out put from Auto ie converter is the highest temperature, and can safely hit 300F according to This page

That's a pretty confusing page. It implies that output temp can reach 300f, but then lists fluid change intervals iplying that if you see 300f you need o change the fluid every 1000km or so?

I'd stay below 120C/250F.

Steve.

[dank]

I just fitted a speco mechanical temp gauge in the output line to the tranny cooler. It's installed about 3 ft along from the actual outlet. Not ideal, it might drop a degree or two on its run to the cooler but at least I know what the tranny is doing. I have seen so far a couple of times around 100 degrees in low range crawling but nothing much higher, on road it sits around 60 degrees. if I turn the thermo on it drops it by a few degrees... I might install a bigger cooler at some point or plumb another one in. I used a honeycomb style rather than flat fin style as they are stronger and will cop a whack without damage. Found it on a vp commodore at the wreckers.

[fordem]

christover1 wrote:

It'd be interesting to know how effective that sensor setup is - it looks like there is a tee with the fluid flowing through it, and the sensor mounted in an adapter off of the stem of the tee - the sensor is not actually in contact with the fluid flowing through the tee.

You WILL get a reading, but how close the reading is to the actual temperature of the fluid is questionable.

[dank]

My setup is the same as Chris's but I think the mechanical gauges senders are bigger... Mine actually sticks out into the flow being 35mm long or so.

I don't think there's any problem with chris's setup. If you consider basic fluid flow dynamics, the fluid in the void around the sensor will be replaced by the fluid running past the opening... The delay if any in temp will be negligible for the purposes of keeping an eye on things.

[christover1]

dank wrote:

I used a honeycomb style rather than flat fin style as they are stronger and will cop a whack without damage. Found it on a vp commodore at the wreckers.

I am about to go to the wreckers for a search. Will keep an eye open. Not heard of honey comb before. Added to my hunt list now.

[christover1]

fordem wrote:

You WILL get a reading, but how close the reading is to the actual temperature of the fluid is questionable.

Not sure myself,
but will act as a guide.
Gve me an idea of whats normal, so I can know if it goes unnormal.

[christover1]

I wanted to avoid sender sticking into the flow, thought it may impede fluid flow???

[ajsr]

the brass fitting should be the same temp as the fluid flowing through it , or very close to it

[dank]

christover1 wrote:

I wanted to avoid sender sticking into the flow, thought it may impede fluid flow???

As far as I can tell the tip of mine is just in the flow. It hasn't had any adverse effects mainly because the brass t piece Inside diameter is larger than that of the 5/16th line it's attached to, there shouldnt be any real restriction.

[christover1]

dank wrote:

I used a honeycomb style rather than flat fin style as they are stronger and will cop a whack without damage. Found it on a vp commodore at the wreckers.

Sometimes ya win.
Went to a newly advertised wrecker in Heatherdale, near Ringwood.
First car I looked at was a Berlina V6.
It had an aux stacked plate cooler twice the size of mine.
Pretty sure it will suffice alone,
but can plumb in both my coolers later if needed.
Thanks for pointing me at the Holden section,
I was hanging round the Jap sections.

[christover1]

dank wrote:

christover1 wrote:

I wanted to avoid sender sticking into the flow, thought it may impede fluid flow???

As far as I can tell the tip of mine is just in the flow. It hasn't had any adverse effects mainly because the brass t piece Inside diameter is larger than that of the 5/16th line it's attached to, there shouldnt be any real restriction.

I can't see any problem with that.