[christover1]

ajsr wrote:

the brass fitting should be the same temp as the fluid flowing through it , or very close to it

I stuck my pinky on it to test, yes it was hot

[TheOtherLeft]

christover1 wrote:

Hi Chris,

Would it be wise to put a cable tie or something else below the sender to hold it against the other hose? It appears with the weight of the sender it may vibrate quite a lot and hence could weaken the trans hose/fitting.

[christover1]

TheOtherLeft wrote:

[Would it be wise to put a cable tie or something else below the sender to hold it against the other hose? It appears with the weight of the sender it may vibrate quite a lot and hence could weaken the trans hose/fitting.

Could be, will keep an eye on that.
Not clear in the photo is a twin pipe support bracket,
fairly close to the t-piece.
But will be checkin things as I go.

[dhula]

fordem wrote:

christover1 wrote:

It'd be interesting to know how effective that sensor setup is - it looks like there is a tee with the fluid flowing through it, and the sensor mounted in an adapter off of the stem of the tee - the sensor is not actually in contact with the fluid flowing through the tee.

You WILL get a reading, but how close the reading is to the actual temperature of the fluid is questionable.

Sender will be in oil the same as if it was stuck right in the middle of the hose. Auto is pumping oil around the place under pressure, pressure will be equal through out the system so oil will be in all the little nooks and crannies

[christover1]

dank wrote:

I used a honeycomb style rather than flat fin style as they are stronger and will cop a whack without damage. Found it on a vp commodore at the wreckers.

Is honeycomb same thing as a stacked plate type?

[fordem]

dhula wrote:

christover1 wrote:

Sender will be in oil the same as if it was stuck right in the middle of the hose. Auto is pumping oil around the place under pressure, pressure will be equal through out the system so oil will be in all the little nooks and crannies

Please don't confuse pressure with flow.
----------------------------------------------------
If you will permit me to go off on a slight tangent ...

Have you ever installed a mechanical oil pressure gauge?
When you started the engine for the first time and the gauge showed the pressure, did you check the connection to the gauge to make sure there were no leaks?
Was there actually oil in the nylon line at the back of the gauge?

The answer to the third question is almost always no - the oil will enter the nylon line at the engine end and compress the air in the line and as you stated, the pressure in the system will be the same throughout the system, so it will register on the gauge, but the oil does not flow through the line and is definitely not in all the "nooks & crannies"
-----------------------------------------------------

There is going to be NO flow of fluid whatsoever through the adapter that houses the sensor - fluid will flow past through the "cross" of the tee, but not into the "stem" because there is no outlet.

Depending on the internal dimensions of the tee and the adapter you can even create a situation - especially if the tee is mounted "stem upwards" where there is an air bubble surrounding the sensor - this is commonly done is residential plumbing to create an airchamber to reduce the effects of water hammer.

Assuming that the opening in the bottom of the adapter is not overly restrictive and that there is fluid in the space surrounding the sensor, whatever fluid surrounds the sensor will not be moving and any increase in it's temperature will occur due to thermal transfer from the fluid flowing through the tee.

The further the sensor is from the cross of the tee, the longer it will take for the temperature change to register, and the more restrictive the opening, again the longer it will take for any change in temperature to take effect.

At some point the brass fittings will reach the temperature of the fluid and the gauge will accurately indicate this temperature, but any change in fluid temperature will not be indicated until the entire assembly either cools or warms.

My original post does not actually state that it was this delay that I was concerned about, and only Dank picked up on that.

[TheOtherLeft]

Good points raised there.

[fordem]

Dank feels my concerns are perhaps unnecessary - the delay in indicating a change will apparently not have a significant effect - I bow to greater experience.

Automatic transmissions and their care is a subject that I am new to - although I have been driving cars with automatic transmissions for decades, I have never owned one until recently - it does have some sort of temperature sensing fitted as standard and will flash the neutral light rapidly to indicate an overtemp, I have been wondering about fitting a gauge and maybe a cooler, but there are other more essential things to be taken care of - like suspension.

[christover1]

My main concern is hoping I have not restricted air flow to the main radiator.
There will be air in the ATF lines for a while,
as a lot of fluid leaked out during cooler instal.
And was not able to mount cooler vertical, so air could be in there, too.
I think it could take time to bleed out.
Due for a fluid change, too, which will help cooling.

I'm not suggesting what I do is correct or accurate,
but I do the best I can with limited tools, and a limited income.
And I learn a lot in the process.

My set up is a guide for how auto temp is going, not an exact reading.
So I can alter my driving, or stop, before an expensive problem occurs.

Bypassing radiator cooler is for protection
from coolant getting into ATF if a crack occurs.
It may not be right solution for everyone.

I do appreciate negative and positive comments,
this is how I/we all learn.

keep it coming
christover

[royce]

I think the cooler will be fine there, however I would consider unbolting it from the position and letting it hang down so the hoses are at the top and hopefully lower than the pan and letting it idle for a while, that will help bleed any air out pretty quickly

[TheOtherLeft]

I suppose the lesson here is that the temp gauge is a RELATIVE measure not a specific one, i,e, you know there's a problem when there is a big increase in temperature not necessarily what the actual temperature is.

[christover1]

royce wrote:

I think the cooler will be fine there, however I would consider unbolting it from the position and letting it hang down so the hoses are at the top and haopefully lower thatn the pan and letting it bleed idle for a while, that will help bleed any air out pretty quickly

Thanks, good idea.
Will do that as part of fluid change,
run it for a while hanging down.

Had to do similar with my Sierras rear disc conversionm , to bleed them.

[christover1]

TheOtherLeft wrote:

I suppose the lesson here is that the temp gauge is a RELATIVE measure not a specific one, i,e, you know there's a problem when there is a big increase in temperature not necessarily what the actual temperature is.

Thats my thoughts, too.
Numbers on gauges can cause people a lot of stress
More so if you don't know whgat they are telling you.
Or even what they mean.

[christover1]

Biggerer cooler seems to work well.
Trans gauge sat roughly 10*C lower than engine temp mostly.
Peaked at 89 on a long hill in arvo heat,
but returned to 80 pretty soon after.
Sat on 65 till I got to the hills, then 75 mostly.
Coming home in cooler weather never went over 75
Need more testing, of course, any excuse for driving

Could be onto a winner.

Now to chase up a new converter inspection hole plug,
mines in Warby Forest somewhere

[dank]

fordem wrote:

Dank feels my concerns are perhaps unnecessary - the delay in indicating a change will apparently not have a significant effect - I bow to greater experience.

Automatic transmissions and their care is a subject that I am new to - although I have been driving cars with automatic transmissions for decades, I have never owned one until recently - it does have some sort of temperature sensing fitted as standard and will flash the neutral light rapidly to indicate an overtemp, I have been wondering about fitting a gauge and maybe a cooler, but there are other more essential things to be taken care of - like suspension.

I wouldn't say uneccessary, more just that in Chris's application the actual exact temp isn't as important as the change in temp when the auto is working hard.

If I was doing any serious towing with a modern vehicle the first thing I would doing is install the biggest cooler I can fit and possibly a gauge as well. Like gwagen was saying every time the fluid gets hot it becomes less effective and this causes wear on the friction material in the clutch packs. I Cooked my auto once and that was enough to start the beginning of the end of that box. $1500 later and it's a totally different box after being rebuilt. I use a synthetic ATF which seems to work well.

... And yes Chris mine looks like that as well...stacked plate cooler... Forgot what they were called.

[christover1]

Was thinking about using a synthetic ATF.
But most people (pros and not)
seem to think its a bad idea in a unit thats has run mineral oils for 19 years.
Unless a full flush, service and reco of auto is done.
I'll stick to a good quality mineral ATF,
but maybe add a conditioner.
Been using Nulon multi vehicle ATF, for every top up,
(added 2L total, with each spillage, cooler change and temp sender addition)
it is supposed to be compatible with whatever fluid is in there now.

New cooler added a fair bit of volume to the ATF.
Can only be a good thing.

[TheOtherLeft]

[quote="christover1"]but maybe add a conditioner.[quote]

Do you notice any difference with the conditioner? Or is just draining/refilling the fluid a bit more frequently enough?

[christover1]

TheOtherLeft wrote:

christover1 wrote:

but maybe add a conditioner.

Quote:

Do you notice any difference with the conditioner? Or is just draining/refilling the fluid a bit more frequently enough?

Have not added any conditioner yet,
will think about doing that after I drain and refil ATF.
New fluid with built in conditioner (nulon?)
may help with my tiny leak in bell housing area.
(not noticed till I lost the rubber bung from inspection hole)
Has to wait till next cash injection day

Going to make a temporary bung for now.

[christover1]

With the refitting of air con condenser, and fitting of new cooler,
it became evident that the engine fan was not having much cooling effect,
on the new cooler.
Cooler was too far from it to get much air pulled through.
It was running hot at slow speeds/idling. Not good for crawling.
So until I can afford a dedicated fan for the trans cooler,
I have replumbed the original radiator cooler, in series with new cooler.

Running extremely better temps now.
May keep it that way if it runs nice temps in all situations.
Time will tell.

[christover1]

Running the radiator trans cooler didn't last long.
I wasn't happy with engine temps.
Trans was heating up radiator a bit sometimes.
Trans temps were fine, but no dramatic improvements.
Not enough to warrant running radiator trans cooler.

So it has been bypassed again,
and I plumbed in my old auxillary cooler,
as well as the new bigger one.

In todays very hot heat, temps of trans and engine were all good.

Now I need new hoses, too much cuttings and movings,
hoses too short now, and hose clamps all stripped.

Will get better quality hose clips/clamps this time.


Have run with and without stock cooler in line,
with small aux cooler inline and by itself,
larger aux cooler inline and bu itself,
and stock cooler by itself.

Have settled on huge aux cooler by itself.
Have rigged condensor fan to run with a switch,
when no air con on, for added cooling off road.

Now to see how it all goes towing..

[atari4x4]

can anyone help me... i'm slightly confused/having a brain fart, what line is the hot line on a AW4 vit auto

top or bottom on the side of the bellhousing?

[christover1]

atari4x4 wrote:

can anyone help me... i'm slightly confused/having a brain fart, what line is the hot line on a AW4 vit auto

top or bottom on the side of the bellhousing?

Closest to the front.

I had to search hard for that answer.

AAYou can feel which gets hottest first

[christover1]

On mine it is the bottom one

[christover1]

or number 3 and 6

[atari4x4]

thanks chris, trans cooler is done

i was sure the bottom one was the hot line as the top line had a fair old flow coming back to the trans with it running... but after looking in the FSM i got confused with their silly wording.

[christover1]

atari4x4 wrote:

after looking in the FSM i got confused with their silly wording.

Happens to me a lot.

I found the info on a Jeep forum when doing mine , they use AW4's too
(But don't tell anyone I was on a Jeep forum)

[fordem]

An AW4 is an AW4 (not quite - there are actually differences), regardless of if it's on a Suzuki, a Jeep, a Toyota - or in my case a Mitsubishi - and I found a lot more information about the care & feeding of the AW4, whether right or wrong, on the Jeep forums - now I have to go tear my AW4 harness apart and look for a broken wire, it's not selecting top gear - the nice thing about the Mitsubishi controller is it gives you nice clear error codes - "output shaft speed sensor open circuit"

[christover1]

Can't remember if I mentioned this.

I fitted a fan to the extra cooler,
after fitting air con back on,
as it was no longer fitted in front of radiator fan.
The radiator fan sucked enough air to cool the auto, too.
It lost that ability once air con fan was in the way.

If you mount yours up against radiator, it may not need an extra fan.

If I ever fit a winch, I will need to remote mount the auto cooler,
and a separate fan is then mandatory.

Think that all makes sense, I need a holiday

[mudboy]

This is something I am planning to do on my zook, was going to mount in the drain plug, so I get the actual temp at the box

[christover1]

mudboy wrote:

This is something I am planning to do on my zook, was going to mount in the drain plug, so I get the actual temp at the box

I did consider putting the temp sender in the drain plug.
But decided against it,
as it was too prone to off road damage.
Now I run a skid plate, so wouldn't matter as much.

You will find varying opinions on the best place to mount the sender.
Listen to all, and decide whats best for you.