[Gwagensteve]

Mark, Perth isn't at all like Victoria. Generally, cars don't need as much gearing over there.

Steve.

[monley]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Mark, Perth isn't at all like Victoria. Generally, cars don't need as much gearing over there.

Steve.

Defiantly don't need gearing in WA...it's not like we don't have any rock setups or anything http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcTqJtym ... re=related

[atari4x4]

monkey wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote:

Mark, Perth isn't at all like Victoria. Generally, cars don't need as much gearing over there.

Steve.

Defiantly don't need gearing in WA...it's not like we don't have any rock setups or anything http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcTqJtym ... re=related

x2 i've seen plenty of pic from perth wheeling spots that would require a decent crawl ratio

it's more like most Perth suzuki owners are too jewish to do something about regearing.

[monley]

atari4x4 wrote:

monkey wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote:

Mark, Perth isn't at all like Victoria. Generally, cars don't need as much gearing over there.

Steve.

Defiantly don't need gearing in WA...it's not like we don't have any rock setups or anything http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcTqJtym ... re=related

x2 i've seen plenty of pic from perth wheeling spots that would require a decent crawl ratio

it's more like most Perth suzuki owners are too jewish to do something about regearing.

Or they all just live at PL which only need's a little bit of gearing

[Gwagensteve]

I was waiting for something like this.

Can everyone just calm down about assuming everyone has the hardcoreest extremestly hectik tracks in their own state? What works in Perth, it appears, doesn't necessarily work in Victoria. That's not a dig at Perth, it's a comment, from my personal experience, on what works in Victoria.

The OP appeared to be drawing some conclusions that it is possible to drive a vitara off road acceptably on 31's and stock gearing, based on the experience of a Perth based contributor.

This might be true in Perth, but I can speak from experience it's not the case in Victoria.

Different states favour different setups.

That's the beginning and end of it.

Steve.

[monley]

Gwagensteve wrote:

I was waiting for something like this.

Can everyone just calm down about assuming everyone has the hardcoreest extremestly hectik tracks in their own state? What works in Perth, it appears, doesn't necessarily work in Victoria. That's not a dig at Perth, it's a comment, from my personal experience, on what works in Victoria.

The OP appeared to be drawing some conclusions that it is possible to drive a vitara off road acceptably on 31's and stock gearing, based on the experience of a Perth based contributor.

This might be true in Perth, but I can speak from experience it's not the case in Victoria.

Different states favour different setups.

That's the beginning and end of it.

Steve.

And what works in VIC might not won't work here

[alien]

atari4x4 wrote:

it's more like most Perth suzuki owners are too jewish to do something about regearing.

lol so true =) and anyone that says "i dont need gearing" very quickly changes their mind once they ride in something similar with gearing.

[got_bar_work]

I drove my vit with 235 on it when I got it and with out my crawlers it sucked big time
U could not get the thing to go slow enough
Even with crawlers now coming down off ledges with 31 is a bit fast still
I think it would be better with a auto

[Gwagensteve]

monkey wrote:

And what works in VIC might not won't work here

Maybe not. I'm sure most of our cars would suck at sand if they couldn't hold high range -low range would be far too low.

I'm pretty confident from what I have seen of the power lines we would have a good time, but might not find it all that challenging. Likewise, the guys driving the creek bed stuff in QLD like 11_evl would laugh at the stuff we get a kick out of.

Steve.

[shandy92]

ms1991 wrote:

shandy92 wrote:

mate as Alien said above, ive had my swb vit on both 235 (29") and 31's. the gearing on 31's is not to bad as everyone says but it is definitely noticable.

fuel economy....i get on average 370km to a tank that is about 35-38L. i dont know the exact size as its dented, started as a 42L tank. i have slightly advanced the ignition timing which has given me a slight increase in torque and an addition 30km to a tank on 95oct fuel.

i have 2" sus and 2" body lift, they are a easy and cheap car to mod for big gains. suspension lift cost me about $600 in springs and struts and shocks, currently running nissan 180sx rear springs and commodore shock and the front is dobinson springs/struts.

dont worry about cvs untill you break one, i have been driving vits for 3yrs and havnt had one go pop. but a locker helps. i daily drive mine and do a lot of km's and cant complain.

oh and dont let the IFS stop you from buying one, if set up correctly it wont limit you at all!

Shandy, thanks for the insight mate.
Sounds good, If i buy the car I'll see how it goes with the 31's on and offroad before i make the decision to sell the 31's and go down to 235/75s (roughly 29" ??)... or is that small difference not worth it?

the car already has 2" suspension lift, from pedders...not sure if its any good however? I wouldnt mind putting in a 2" body lift aswell.

mate i cant really answer that question without driving ur terrain. some places require the diff clearance over chassis or sill clearance. for me it got me that little bit more front crossmember clearance and approach angle that i needed to get me that little bit further.


p.s steve- i may be coming to Vic later in the yr can i come for a ride with ur club?

[ms1991]

Lets all go for a trip to the vic high country.. with no reduction gears LOL.

well since this is a money saving thing for me, im just gonna take the cheapest way out to get the car to where it should be in terms of correct ratios and stuff, so if that means running smaller wheels then so be it...

idk why i lie to myself..ill end up running the 31's and spending a fortune regearing. fml

[Gwagensteve]

http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/index.ph ... gears.html

$749+shipping isn't chickenfeed. But it's cheaper than regearing 2 diffs, considering it's not hard to fit transfer gears yourself but it is quite difficult to do 2X diff setups at home.

If you really want the cheapest option, a carby auto vitara and a 5.12 diff gear swap is the cheap option. Not a great outcome though without compared to an efi vitara with gears though.

Steve.

[ZookFan]

atari4x4 wrote:

ZookFan wrote:

Because TJ's are comfy as with those beautiful coils.. not to mention a tad better off road than a IFS vit .. live axles all the way!

Hey Indy, heard of the 4x4 Race in the US call King of the Hammers? It's probably the tuffest 4x4 even in the world.

Guess what... the winning car ran IFS & a heap more off the Ultra4 class are going that way.

Your blind narrow mindedness towards IFS cars on a whole is quite comical.

They can be made to work & work quite well, just because your IFS 4runner couldn't handle your driving style doesn't make all IFS junk.

Yeah.... but just one thing.. they are all custom built... made using much stronger CV's and everything else than a factory 4wd...which a Vit is

Jeese Vit was not going that hard on little red at Glasshouse and the CV snapped inside the hub... a sierra with the same size tyres and was giving it heaps! [that's how he rolled it]..no broken CV's

[Gwagensteve]

The "problem" with Vitara IFS is that it doesn't have any rebound rubbers and the steering stops are on the pitman arm, not the knuckle. This means that the owners can add longer struts and strut drop brackets until the CV's fall apart.

This isn't possible with most other IFS designs - Droop is limited by the rebound rubbers.

I'd wager that breaking a CV with the wheels straight ahead and stock length struts is almost unheard of.

It's kind of like running shocks so long that the springs fall out and blaming the springs, or putting 33's on and having them hit the guards and blaming the guards.

Just my thoughts. The Vitara CV's I've seen break have been in reverse, at full droop and full lock, and always in cars with long struts and/or spacers.

Steve.

[atari4x4]

ZookFan wrote:

atari4x4 wrote:

ZookFan wrote:

Because TJ's are comfy as with those beautiful coils.. not to mention a tad better off road than a IFS vit .. live axles all the way!

Hey Indy, heard of the 4x4 Race in the US call King of the Hammers? It's probably the tuffest 4x4 even in the world.

Guess what... the winning car ran IFS & a heap more off the Ultra4 class are going that way.

Your blind narrow mindedness towards IFS cars on a whole is quite comical.

They can be made to work & work quite well, just because your IFS 4runner couldn't handle your driving style doesn't make all IFS junk.

Yeah.... but just one thing.. they are all custom built... made using much stronger CV's and everything else than a factory 4wd...which a Vit is

Jeese Vit was not going that hard on little red at Glasshouse and the CV snapped inside the hub... a sierra with the same size tyres and was giving it heaps! [that's how he rolled it]..no broken CV's

KOH was just an example that live axle suspension, isn't the be all & end all of 4wding.

Has Jesse's Vit got any sort of gear reduction?

I'm guessing he's still having to hit stuff with a fair bit of speed, rather than crawling it, same story with swifty_ano & his Vit & I'd bet that both are using 2nd hand CV's to start with. Not sure if either have done anything like diff drop brackets or the bolt in CV swap?

I could quite possibly break a CV at will on call with the front locker on, personally I think it's all about knowing how to drive around the limitations of IFS & when to get off the power, picking better lines & generally having to "drive" it a bit more rather than the point & shoot hold it flat style that you seem to have.

EDIT: Steve, that is exactly how I broke the first CV. Loaded up with the air locker, at full lock & a bit of droop.... In reverse. I wasn't going to get recovered by a Toyota.

The 2nd one got taken out when I snapped a Tie Rod off road & I got nearly 90* of steering lock on the LHS while on the gas trying to climb a 2" muddy tree root step up.

[ZookFan]

Do i drive like that

[ZookFan]

atari4x4 wrote:

KOH was just an example that live axle suspension, isn't the be all & end all of 4wding.

Has Jesse's Vit got any sort of gear reduction?

I'm guessing he's still having to hit stuff with a fair bit of speed, rather than crawling it, same story with swifty_ano & his Vit & I'd bet that both are using 2nd hand CV's to start with. Not sure if either have done anything like diff drop brackets or the bolt in CV swap?

I could quite possibly break a CV at will on call with the front locker on, personally I think it's all about knowing how to drive around the limitations of IFS & when to get off the power, picking better lines & generally having to "drive" it a bit more rather than the point & shoot hold it flat style that you seem to have.

Yeah both did not have gears... ...

[ms1991]

Im in two minds about this whole cv thing, really dont want to spend the money repairing broken cvs all the time.. or on reduction gears, diff drop brackets etc..

id buy a jimny purely because my personal preferance is live axle, but theyre out of my budget and my house is the priority.

but then again, others say the vitara is extremely capable offroad and its not often that youd pop a cv. and to be honest, I rekon they look like the ducks nuts when theyre lifted a little and running some 31's. but its come as a shock to me that so much needs to be done to make them a bit more trail worthy in the front end, well thats what i gather from all the searches i've done about broken cvs.. I really dont know what to do

[Gwagensteve]

Jimny's can be had for the same money as a vitara, but they have their own range of problems. I think a vitara is better at everything than a Jimny. If you think upgrading the front end of a Vitara is expensive, do some research on upgraded driveline parts for a Jimny and you'll come to realise the live front axle of a jimmy is far from an advantage. IMHO jimny's are made of glass compared to a sierra or Vitara and engineering your way around the problem is a nightmare compared to a vitara.

I'll just reiterate that the CV's are rarely the problem - it's generally excessive droop that wipes them out. Avoid full droop/full lock abuse with a locker and the CV's will be quite reliable.

The alloy diff is a problem with a locker. It is possible to use a Sierra front or rear third member though with the alloy axle housing as a compromise solution that might never give you any further trouble.

Steve.

[ms1991]

well there you go..my mate with the jimny wont be happy to hear that. lol.

anyway, If the jeep sells and i get the vitara, I'll let you all know how i go with it.

cheers guys.

[bcgal0004]

ms1991 wrote:

well there you go..my mate with the jimny wont be happy to hear that. lol.

anyway, If the jeep sells and i get the vitara, I'll let you all know how i go with it.

cheers guys.

I couldn't give a rats ass what they say. lol.

[ms1991]

dont pretend you have mates

[ms1991]

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/deta ... 2&__N=1216 1246 1247 1252 1282 4294962891 4294962890 903&distance=25&silo=Stock&Range=Price:Min,7500~1&sort=default

can anyone give me some insight on the sv620 2 litre 6cyl with the 4speed auto? is this a good base to start from?

[SierraDan]

bcgal0004 wrote:

ms1991 wrote:

well there you go..my mate with the jimny wont be happy to hear that. lol.

anyway, If the jeep sells and i get the vitara, I'll let you all know how i go with it.

cheers guys.

I couldn't give a rats ass what they say. lol.

You're tough.

[DarkHorse]

the 2L V6 is a good motor - not as much of a power advantage over the 2L 4-cyl as you'd hope, and a bit thirstier, but those I've driven with go pretty well. They sound great with a 2 1/4 " pipe and a boot up 'em...

That one looks like a good base from here, clean, straight, relatively low mileage... but I'm not the one buying it...

[ms1991]

thanks DarkHorse.

Does anyone know what would the fuel consumption comparison between the 2L 4cyl and 2L 6cyl may be? Does the 6 drink a considerable amount more than the 4? afterall good fuel economy is something that everyone wants, Im no different.

Also, in terms of lift kits etc with sv620... I have read something about them having wider chassis rails to compensat for the v6 engine, so does this mean the SWB vitara kist wont fir or??

thanks a heap for the help guys, appreciate it.

[Gwagensteve]

I don't think the decision is really between a 2.0 4cyl and a 2.0 6cyl, it's really between SWB and LWB. If you want a LWB, then the 2.0V6 is the most powerful/best equipped model, if you want a SWB, then the 2.0 4cyl is the most powerful/best equipped.

Personally, I'm no great fan of the 2.0 V6. They eat chain tensioners, and if these haven't been replaced (an expensive job) they will need to be. Tensioner failure is quite destructive. IMHO by the time you are looking at something as large/fuel inefficient as a 2.0V6 LWB vitara you might want to compare it to a small diesel like a Pajero or 3.0 diesel surf - all together heavier duty vehicles with lower fuel costs and better range. That's just my opinion though. I'm not sure you need that much car though?

All the 2.0 vitaras have the wider chassis. All suspension parts are the same except the diff drop brackets.

Steve.

[ms1991]

Thats not very encouraging to hear, Last thing i want is to be spending another ~$1000 bux on getting the chain tensioners done.

I really dont need a whole lot of car, two seats and some room in the back for my swag and camping qupiment, so i guess the swb would suit me fine with a 1.6 in it. Only problem is that i need to find the sv420? so i can re gear it for 31's.

[Gwagensteve]

I think you are making this too complicated.

Find the best auto SWB you can. If it's a 420 great, if not... Meh.... whatever.

A 420 with 5.12 gears in it just ends up with the same gearing as a 416 stock so it's kind a moot point. The added power of the 2.0 is nice, but I bet you can find a 1.6, and lock and gear it for the price of a 420. If you can find a 420 at the right price, that's cool, but really it's just a more expensive option because you are always a diff ratio swap away from the same gearing as the 1.6, on top of the higher purchase price.

You also need to know that 420's can't run 15" rims - the brakes are too big. You will be limited to 16" rims, which adds to the cost of tyres. (and rims)

Don't bother with trying to run 31's on road. It will drive OK, but will drive heaps better with stock tyres on it.

Swap to 31's (or my preference, 7.50 16's on SV420 wheels) for trips and put crawler gears in the transfer. That way you only have to put up with less-than-optimal gearing to and from a trip, the rest of the time gearing will be standard.

With a lock-wrong or similar in the rear, you will have a cheap, capable car that will drive fine on the road. With gears in the transfer and luggy 7.50's, it will be very well suited to victorian conditions. On road other than the occasional clunk from the locker it will drive and look as per stock. You won't be killing you economy with tall tyres around town.

You won't break CV's unless you are super abusive. If you like the way the car is behaving but want a bit more capability then you can add a steel front diff and a locker in the front when it suits you.

Steve.

[ms1991]

hm, okay cool. Just wanna get things right the first time, not buy something and be dissapointed with it, theres no point in that. Hence why I'm trying to find out as much as I can and suit it to my needs.

thanks all.