[tanshi]

im hoping to wire mine up and get it movable in the not too distant future. but im assuming you need a running g16 and auto to see what signals are being sent between the two units?

[JrZook]

tanshi wrote:

a running g16 and auto to see what signals are being sent between the two units?

This would be the easiest way. If you can track one or if there are any members on here with a running G16 with AW4 that I can probe out for an hour or so give me a yell.

[shep]

i have one, want a road trip?

[JrZook]

shep wrote:

i have one, want a road trip?

Shout a poor uni student the fuel coin and I'm up there!!!

[tanshi]

i'll chip in $50

[JrZook]

Bringing this back up!! Can any brizzy peps help out?

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=32598

[oozuk]

JrZook wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

JrZook wrote:

Is there any demand for such a project to be accomplished?

Dan

I'm pretty sure Tanshi is going to attemp this. Perhaps a meeting of the minds? Could benifit a few people, as I know wherte there are 2 of the autos just sitting collecting dust

Sounds good

Jr Zook, did you make any developments with making the aw4 to run stand alone or with just a normal TPS signal ?

[JrZook]

oozuk wrote:

JrZook wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

JrZook wrote:

Is there any demand for such a project to be accomplished?

Dan

I'm pretty sure Tanshi is going to attemp this. Perhaps a meeting of the minds? Could benifit a few people, as I know wherte there are 2 of the autos just sitting collecting dust

Sounds good

Jr Zook, did you make any developments with making the aw4 to run stand alone or with just a normal TPS signal ?

Will be probing out the auto vit Tanshi is parting out this week and should be able to figure out a solution to this puzzle

[303zuke]

The AW4 is an AISIN design box that has been used by other vehicle manufacturers besides Suzuki, most commonly Toyota (as the A340) and Jeep (still called AW4), but also Nissan and Isuzu. Now as soon as you say Jeep and Toyota, you just know the the Americans have looked into it before. The Pirate 4x4 Forum has a good thread on tech shift setups for the AW4/A340.

Stand alone shift controllers are available from several suppliers such as RAdesigns.

[303zuke]

JrZook wrote:

[quote="oozuk]Jr Zook, did you make any developments with making the aw4 to run stand alone or with just a normal TPS signal ?[/quote]

Will be probing out the auto vit Tanshi is parting out this week and should be able to figure out a solution to this puzzle [/quote]

Does Any of this S***t make sense to you?

[JrZook]

303zuke wrote:

The AW4 is an AISIN design box that has been used by other vehicle manufacturers besides Suzuki, most commonly Toyota (as the A340) and Jeep (still called AW4), but also Nissan and Isuzu. Now as soon as you say Jeep and Toyota, you just know the the Americans have looked into it before. The Pirate 4x4 Forum has a good thread on tech shift setups for the AW4/A340.

Stand alone shift controllers are available from several suppliers such as RAdesigns.

303 what you have said there is true! The AW4 box has been used behind toys and jeeps, its a very common box. The issue that I have come across that got me unstuck previously is that the TCM for the AW4 used by different manufacturers requires quite different inputs from the ECU.

Suzuki for instance have kept a nice blanket over how the TPS input is scaled from the ECU. Info seems non existent for it, hence the need for a working AU auto vit to work out what the TCM actually required. Once this is sorted then a standalone unit can be made to run the TCM off any engine with the requirement of just having a tps and temp sensor for inputs.

[oozuk]

JrZook wrote:

303zuke wrote:

The AW4 is an AISIN design box that has been used by other vehicle manufacturers besides Suzuki, most commonly Toyota (as the A340) and Jeep (still called AW4), but also Nissan and Isuzu. Now as soon as you say Jeep and Toyota, you just know the the Americans have looked into it before. The Pirate 4x4 Forum has a good thread on tech shift setups for the AW4/A340.

Stand alone shift controllers are available from several suppliers such as RAdesigns.

303 what you have said there is true! The AW4 box has been used behind toys and jeeps, its a very common box. The issue that I have come across that got me unstuck previously is that the TCM for the AW4 used by different manufacturers requires quite different inputs from the ECU.

Suzuki for instance have kept a nice blanket over how the TPS input is scaled from the ECU. Info seems non existent for it, hence the need for a working AU auto vit to work out what the TCM actually required. Once this is sorted then a standalone unit can be made to run the TCM off any engine with the requirement of just having a tps and temp sensor for inputs.

That offer still stands for you to probe around on that X-90 running a G16b and AW4 that me and 16ZUK own if you want to it's a complete running car just unregistered and at jimboomba qld.

where keeping it to put the drivetrain into 16ZUK's sierra so all std gear for him but i want to fit the AW4 behind my modified G16b with A/Market ecu, so any thing i can do to help you out to figure a solution will be beneficial to both of us

[Rhinoman]

JrZook wrote:

303zuke wrote:

Suzuki for instance have kept a nice blanket over how the TPS input is scaled from the ECU. Info seems non existent for it, hence the need for a working AU auto vit to work out what the TCM actually required. Once this is sorted then a standalone unit can be made to run the TCM off any engine with the requirement of just having a tps and temp sensor for inputs.

The signal is a simple 5V logic signal, the operating spec. should be in the FSM in the TCC disgnostics section, it'll be around 5-65 degrees. The ECU section should give the ECU pin voltage at idle which will give the polarity. You should be able to replicate that with a window comparator off the TPS signal.

[303zuke]

Rhinoman wrote:

JrZook wrote:

303zuke wrote:

Suzuki for instance have kept a nice blanket over how the TPS input is scaled from the ECU. Info seems non existent for it, hence the need for a working AU auto vit to work out what the TCM actually required. Once this is sorted then a standalone unit can be made to run the TCM off any engine with the requirement of just having a tps and temp sensor for inputs.

The signal is a simple 5V logic signal, the operating spec. should be in the FSM in the TCC disgnostics section, it'll be around 5-65 degrees. The ECU section should give the ECU pin voltage at idle which will give the polarity. You should be able to replicate that with a window comparator off the TPS signal.

I don't understand a single word you guys have said, but does the link (Any of this s***) help, JrZook?

I realise the ECU will be Suzuki specific, and even the TCM to an extent, but the AW4 will be common to other makes. If the Suzuki tech for the TCM is hard to find, then could you not run the AW4 in a Suzuki using a simple Toyota TCM (with well-known inputs and aftermarket Shift Controllers), and do away with the Suzuki controls altogether? Even finding a used Toyota TCM will be much easier in wreckers.

[fordem]

If it's any help I have the wiring diagrams and connector pin-out for a Mitsubishi/AW4 setup - as used on the Pajero iO - as well as the vehicle and access to a digital scopemeter with screen capture software, etc.

[JrZook]

Managed to have a successful probe today and get a few measurements. Did a few calculations and I'm pretty sure the transfer function comes out to be Vout = (-1.5*Vin)+10

[oozuk]

JrZook wrote:

Managed to have a successful probe today and get a few measurements. Did a few calculations and I'm pretty sure the transfer function comes out to be Vout = (-1.5*Vin)+10

I have no idea what that means but i guess it means progress !!
I'm excited

[mnemonix]

That's a pretty straight forward conversion if that's the case. But I wonder why Suzuki saw fit to use it rather than a direct reading from the sensor.

[Rhinoman]

I'm rather surprised by that because the TCM doesn't appear to have an ADC to measure that and also the ECU would need to PWM a signal to get an analogue output and I haven't seen any sign of that either. Was this measured on the X90? do you know what the numbers are of the ECU and TCM? I have a fairly complete set of schematics for an OBD1 X90.

[JrZook]

The ECU/TCM combo measured was out of an early 88 import 16v vit. I also connected up the TCM from mnemonix and that seemed to work also. Didn't have my CRO out at the time (silly me) so can't confirm weather it was a PWM or DC analogue signal. In saying that and from what you have above, how does the thing work then?

I had a look back through your partial schematics on the TCM and can confirm what you have put down so far in regards to the TPS input. Basically is a 2.2k pullup feed from the battery through 2 diodes in series. The ECU side must just be open collector. Knowing this I'll see it the auto signals are present in my ECU and have a closer look at them with a pull up resistor connected.

Ps mnemonix do you know what your TCM came out of?

[mnemonix]

Dan: 1995 Aussie vitara lwb.

[Rhinoman]

mnemonix wrote:

Dan: 1995 Aussie vitara lwb.

That should be the same as the one that I have. I take it the ECU is from a 98, not an 88? I believe they are the same for autos and manuals. The X90 and 16V Vits from that era use the same ECU but with slightly different software.

[JrZook]

ECU tested was from an early 88 import (not 98)

Just hacked into my ECU to get at the TPS TCM output. Managed to get the signal out so I can use my car and a test bed now wooooo! Chucked the CRO onto it and turns out its a 64Hz PWM waveform not a nice simple analogue voltage. No biggie, still doable, just a bit more work

[Rhinoman]

OK, we didn't get any Vits until 89 and neither did the US, I think I have heard that were JDM 88s. I didn't know there were 4-sp autos back then though, all the ECUs that I've seen were for 3-sp autos and didn't do much more than manage the TCC lock up.
Have you got a part number for the TCM? The schematic for the 57B40 shows that signal going to pin P17 on the processor. Last week I was looking at a couple of ECUs with the 68-pin processor and I was able to determine that that pin can be set up as an (undocumented) timer input. On those ECUs it is configured as a pulse accumulator for the VSS, maybe it can be reconfigured to become an input capture channel.

[JrZook]

Yea this vit is a JDM. Has electric everything! Even has a sunroof! What interests me the most is that it came out MPFI 16v 1600 with the 4 speed auto pre 90's

[JrZook]

I'm tracking down the TCM model for ya. Sounds like there must be a input capture pin on this processor otherwise I haven't got a clue how it would read the changing duty cycle.

[Rhinoman]

Can you also get a pic of the circuit board of the ECU? I have a JDM ECU here, it has yet another undocumented processor which I have been working on over the last few weeks for a Mazda application. Its the only processor that I haven't been able to read but I do have a plan. I'm away for a couple of weeks from this weekend so I won't be able to make any progress on that for a while.

[Rhinoman]

The timer channel appears t be at address L0025 with the control register at address L0024. On the Vit ECU L0024 is set to 10h which implements a pulse accumulator - on the TCM its set to 30h. I'll need to write some test code to try a few experiments but it could well be an input capture channel.

[shep]

Does the vss having a 30% error in reading actual road speed effect how the auto works?

[Gwagensteve]

No. My ECU is throwing a check engine light for a VSS error at the moment and the auto is working perfectly. I believe the auto reads "road speed" speed from the output shaft, which is why in a vitara the low range dash light is used to lock out overdrive in low range - that's the only way the TCM knows the car is in low range.

Steve.