[shandy92]

Hey guys,
Well the other week i got a little surprise after trouble shooting for a few months, recently after replacing everything in the cooling system (rad, hoses, viscous clutch) i noticed that my coolant level was rather low, coolant was going from the rad to the over flow bottle but not returning back to the radiator once cooled. first thought was its sucking air in from a hose somewhere....pressure tested system 3-4 times and no leaks. Even had the idea of a head gasket, so started the car with the system under pressure....no spluttering or coolant out the pipe, must be all good. (all this done at NatRad) so i took my car to mate who had one of those testers to see if there is any exhaust gases in the coolant, the liquid starts off blue with fresh air and goes green with CO2. Well it went a nice strong GREEEN! DAMN

my car is still drivable, the head gasket or head damage must be really minor because it doesnt mix oil or coolant and no coolant is getting into the combustion chamber, the cooling system is being pressurized by combustion pressure tho. I just got a compression test done yesterday, the damage is done between 2-3 cylinder tho, compression on #1:150psi, #2:95psi, #3: 135, #4: 150. pressure must be escaping between 2-3 cylinders. when a bit of oil was dropped in #1 it increased to 170PSI which is ok. everyone couple of day i just transfer coolant from the overflow back to the rad.

Now for the hard bit....choices!
Its a 95 vit with a g16b which had done 225thou, it doesnt use much oil (does loose a little tho) and generally runs pretty well except for a little noise when cold (viewtopic.php?f=5&t=33655 ......not tappets)

Option 1)
Pull head off, refit with new gasket, get head skimmed and tested, inspect bores for wear. would be the cheaper option but then im not sure if i want to risk it with the bottom end already done 225 thou. opinions?

option 2)
Pull motor and box out, and rebuild engine from ground up. The actual rebuild bit im not to fussed about as this is what i do everyday at work, the bit that has me a bit iffy is all the other bits like fitting and adjusting the clutch and the suzuki specific stuff etc or more importantly where to source quality parts from (bearings, rings, pistons and a machinist ect) yes this will be expensive but it would be a good personal achievement to build my own motor.

option 3)
hand it over to a shop to deal with....$3.5k drive in and out at suzistore

If i went for number 2 i would pull the box out as well as i have a re-geared transfer here and i have been told that it makes life a 1000 times easier if fitted out of car with box off.

thanks for you help, im a bit stuck as to what to do. so any advice is appreciated.
Mitch

p.s sorry for the essay

[jdk81]

Out of those two options, id probably bite the bullet and reco the whole thing, having said that, have you considered an engine swap?

Put a j18 or j20(with a j18 flywheel)?
Possibly a j24 will fit (with a j18 flywheel), but need to check the bellhousing.

[Lockie666]

Rebuild it mate, pretty easy shit to do... I'm sure you could put a new clutch in too, the engine and boxes are pretty light and easy to handle... Or you could talk to Aliens mates and pay a fortune

[JrZook]

Option 4: Find a cheap written off baleno with low K's and rip the engine out of that and transfer the vitara accessories on to it?

[jono165]

I would pull the head off and have a look before deciding on anything else - cost = zero to this point. This will give you an idea of the condition of the bores and the head, G16b's like to crack heads if the cooling system isnt up to scratch. They typically crack between the valve guide and the welch plug. Theres a reason most of the vitaras at my local wreckers are missing their heads. If thats the problem then you could rebuild/replace the head now, and then get the bottom end done in 12 months or so to spread out the cost, its double handling things but an option to consider.

[DarkHorse]

Having gone through this a few months ago (with the added complication of the car being stranded in Lithgow) I'd say rebuild or transplant. Kills me that I spent as much money and time with the car off-road as I did and still wound up with a 200,000km+ 1600.

Only a matter of time before the rings etc wear out, and you'll be back to square one. Save the effort and do it all while you're at it.

[shandy92]

jdk81 wrote:

Out of those two options, id probably bite the bullet and reco the whole thing, having said that, have you considered an engine swap?

Put a j18 or j20(with a j18 flywheel)?
Possibly a j24 will fit (with a j18 flywheel), but need to check the bellhousing.

Hey mate, im not really looking to increase capacity at all.....or complete a conversion. dont think the j20's fit, they run a different box as well....to much work.

JrZook wrote:

Option 4: Find a cheap written off baleno with low K's and rip the engine out of that and transfer the vitara accessories on to it?

i thought of this after i wrote it, would it require me doing anything with the RTA/DPI?? if so, dont really wanna go over the pits or doing anything thats going to give the cops a reason to flash there lights at me.

jono165 wrote:

I would pull the head off and have a look before deciding on anything else - cost = zero to this point. This will give you an idea of the condition of the bores and the head, G16b's like to crack heads if the cooling system isnt up to scratch. They typically crack between the valve guide and the welch plug. Theres a reason most of the vitaras at my local wreckers are missing their heads. If thats the problem then you could rebuild/replace the head now, and then get the bottom end done in 12 months or so to spread out the cost, its double handling things but an option to consider.

so this is pretty much my option 1. as much as this sounds good, i dont really wanna have to pull it off the road twice and do half the job again.

darky, thanks for your opinion. will prob end up doing this, still deciding tho.

For those that have sourced new parts like oil pumps, rings ect. where did you get ur parts from? online? worth getting genuine parts like bearings ect???

cheers

[MacDaddy]

I think complete engine rebuild is your best option... and personally, i would do drive in, and drive out, i like that if anything goes wrong, they have to fix it at no charge, if you do it, and something goes wrong, it will just cost you more time, effort, and money...

[Lockie666]

MacDaddy wrote:

I think complete engine rebuild is your best option... and personally, i would do drive in, and drive out, i like that if anything goes wrong, they have to fix it at no charge, if you do it, and something goes wrong, it will just cost you more time, effort, and money...

I'm pretty sure the experience doing it yourself is much more than any amount of money could buy.

[shandy92]

Lockie666 wrote:

MacDaddy wrote:

I think complete engine rebuild is your best option... and personally, i would do drive in, and drive out, i like that if anything goes wrong, they have to fix it at no charge, if you do it, and something goes wrong, it will just cost you more time, effort, and money...

I'm pretty sure the experience doing it yourself is much more than any amount of money could buy.

pretty much on the money Chris, Mark i can understand were you coming from in the term of the warranty but in this case i think i would be rather dissapointed if i didnt at least try. other mechanical stuff (transfer cases) yeah no worries ill hand it over so i have the warranty.

just having a read through the FSM about bearings.....oh my god! suzuki have 5 different size's for STD size and then another 5 for oversize! which one do you use.......who knows ahah.

[ninjamoses]

I'm going with either find a low km motor you can drop in or rebuild it yourself Mitch - which one you goes for probably largely depends on how long you can afford to have it off the road (it is your daily isn't it)?

Least with a motor swap you can have it all done in a weekend easy.

[shandy92]

ninjamoses wrote:

I'm going with either find a low km motor you can drop in or rebuild it yourself Mitch - which one you goes for probably largely depends on how long you can afford to have it off the road (it is your daily isn't it)?

Least with a motor swap you can have it all done in a weekend easy.

Yeah it is my daily but i have a motorbike which i bought with the idea of having my car off the road at some point in time. If i bought a low km motor would i have to do anything with the DPI?? pits inspection? or is it just a phone call/paper signing to let them know the engine number has changed?

[Lockie666]

Don't you have a motorbike now Mitch? You have all the time in the world to rebuild you engine if so

[shandy92]

Lockie666 wrote:

Don't you have a motorbike now Mitch? You have all the time in the world to rebuild you engine if so

^^^^^^^

[Jester]

when i rebuilt mine, i got the machine shop to supply correctly sized pistons, rings and bearings, but yeah id definately suggest you take it out and do the whole thing, going by the g16's propensity to crack blocks (i did the headgasket on mine looked all good from up top) 12 months later took the whole motor out cracked from one of the crank journals. so got a baleno block now, though i was supplied with a cracked baleno block originally too (bought a short motor once i pulled the crank out found the crack) cos that was the only short motor i could get in adelaide at the time (there was coilpack motors available but for stupid money then would have needed everything to convert from carby on top) i ended up getting just a bare block frieghted from sydney.

[shandy92]

Hey Jester,

thanks for that, is there going to be any advantage using genuine components over aftermarket? (bearings/rings ect). its hard because you dont know if you can trust the brand that the machinist give you. Did you have to do much with your head?

so at this stage its looking like ill be pulling it out, im really hoping that the block isnt cracked and head is ok.

[alien]

Mitch you're a mechanic... lol rebuild it yourself or drop in a transplant (IMO full rebuild would be better as you know everything about this engine).

[Jester]

shandy92 wrote:

Hey Jester,

thanks for that, is there going to be any advantage using genuine components over aftermarket? (bearings/rings ect). its hard because you dont know if you can trust the brand that the machinist give you. Did you have to do much with your head?

so at this stage its looking like ill be pulling it out, im really hoping that the block isnt cracked and head is ok.

well we trust our machinist, they do excellent quality work, they target their business to performance builds, so mine was simple, one of the blokes at work (now retired) had been using the owner for 20 years plus.

with my head, i had the whole lot done, valve guides, grind. I just told them to go over it and anything that was required to do it, I just wanted my motor all sorted

[shandy92]

alien wrote:

Mitch you're a mechanic... lol rebuild it yourself or drop in a transplant (IMO full rebuild would be better as you know everything about this engine).

yeah i know, but there are little things that are different with these engine compared to bigger diesels, which ill prob be asking help with.

Jester wrote:

well we trust our machinist, they do excellent quality work, they target their business to performance builds, so mine was simple, one of the blokes at work (now retired) had been using the owner for 20 years plus.

with my head, i had the whole lot done, valve guides, grind. I just told them to go over it and anything that was required to do it, I just wanted my motor all sorted

yeah fair enough, im going to ask work and see if i can get our machinist to do mine.
cheers

[shandy92]

Hey all,

well the time is getting nearer to when ill be taking action on this, just went out to the car and had a little gander and the thought accrued to me that i might be biting off more than what i can chew! like i have said b4 its not the rebuild that is the concern but the steps getting there.

how much work does involve in removing an EFI engine and gearbox as one? ill prob pull part of the front clip off to assist in removal. im prob just over thinking things as i do, but dont want to get half way through and be like SHIT i dont no how to do this. ahah

cheers
Mitch

[christover1]

I'm not a mechanic.
I managed to do a Baleno import donk into my Vitara.
The EFI, pipes, tubes, wires etc scared me shitless.
I took heaps of photos, so it was easier to work out how to reassemble it.
Had AZ on speed dial, too

Getting started is the hard bit.
Once started, you have to keep going

My suggestion is rebuild a block and head that you know is good,
then fit it once its done.
Less risk that way.

I very happy with the Baleno engine,
but it would be good for you to build an engine for experience

[shandy92]

christover1 wrote:

I'm not a mechanic.
I managed to do a Baleno import donk into my Vitara.
The EFI, pipes, tubes, wires etc scared me shitless.
I took heaps of photos, so it was easier to work out how to reassemble it.
Had AZ on speed dial, too

Getting started is the hard bit.
Once started, you have to keep going

My suggestion is rebuild a block and head that you know is good,
then fit it once its done.
Less risk that way.

I very happy with the Baleno engine,
but it would be good for you to build an engine for experience

do you mean, find a running motor and rebuild that b4 pulling mine out? mine still runs, but just pressurizes the cooling system so either head gasket or cracked head. ill more than likely buy a new head instead of testing my one, testing them still has a risk of showing good when they are bad. i dont want to buy another motor as im fairly confident that this block is servicable, if not i will buy one then.

ill hopefully have some helpers on the day, but yeah i think i just need to get into it

[christover1]

Yeah thats what I meant.
But if you not in a big hurry, your way is just as good.

[reeceh]

I'm roughly in the same boat. Suspicious head on my g16b in my Sierra. What's this talk of using a baleno engine and vitara accessories? Can I please get some more info?

[christover1]

reeceh wrote:

I'm roughly in the same boat. Suspicious head on my g16b in my Sierra. What's this talk of using a baleno engine and vitara accessories? Can I please get some more info?

Have to re use vitara cam shaft and dizzy, and manifolds, sump,oil pick up and normal vit ac etc
Baleno/swift engines are often cheaper, and some tell be better than a vit donk.
Plenty off info on AZ.

[shandy92]

christover1 wrote:

Yeah thats what I meant.
But if you not in a big hurry, your way is just as good.

did you have to do anything in regards to notifying road transport about the change in engine number? might have a look into that actually

[atari4x4]

same block & cc size so it should just be a phone call to notify them of the replacement engine.

[sideways]

atari4x4 wrote:

same block & cc size so it should just be a phone call to notify them of the replacement engine.

Pretty sure in W.A an engine number change requires you to go over the pits. Not sure though.

[shandy92]

sideways wrote:

atari4x4 wrote:

same block & cc size so it should just be a phone call to notify them of the replacement engine.

Pretty sure in W.A an engine number change requires you to go over the pits. Not sure though.

if thats the case then its a no go for me, thats what im worried about!

[atari4x4]

WA = gay, even when it's a direct replacement? i'd understand if it was G13a to G16a in a sierra.

just hold onto your original engine block so no one can reuse it