[phantom snail]

Hey guys ... just wanted some feedback or experiences regarding this topic ...

So I dropped my off last week to D&R Differentials. They are THE diff experts in Sydney. If ARB have any issues with fitting diffs into ANY 4wd, they go straight to these guys. They have been dealing with each other for yonks.
Anyways, long story short ... front air locker was a mission to fit, my diff housing had to be shaved to fit the locker .. and the rear .. well, it's NOT possible
Cosmo the rep for ARB came down and had discussions with Glen at D&R - they both stood there scratching their heads ... apparently the housing was 5mm too small to fit the air locker, and its not possible to shave it like the front as the air locker casing itself is larger by about 2-3mm.
Cosmo rang up ARB melbourne to see what the go was - and apparently the geniuses at ARB engineering decided to "redesign" the existing air locker (front and rear) for "improvements" about 6 months ago, and then popped these babies out into production without applying / trial fitting it to the jimny diff. The problem here is, Cosmo thinks they have done 3 out of 4 measurements correctly, but the last 4th measurement is incorrect, hence it wont fit. The distance between the carrier bearings inside the jimny housing is just not enough to fit the "new revised" arb air locker ...
ARB have asked Glen to make drawings and measurements of how the diff should be, and from that, they will see what they can do ... so apparently, they will possibly redesign the diff to suite ... meaning mass recall?

I am not too sure wtf to think about this ... because surely within the past few months, at least ONE jimny owner has purchased an ARB air locker for the rear to find out that it doesn't fit???

Apparently, ARB currently also have the same issue with one other air locker for one particular 4wd

Does anyone or has anyone heard of this or know anything about it?

Has anyone or does anyone know someone who has purchased an ARB rear air locker kit and had it fitted successfully without any issues?

[hooki]

there was a thread not to long ago about having to modify the sierra diff to fit the ARB RD208...even though the rd208 is designed to fit straight into the sierra rear end.

I just bought a 208 recently so hopefully I don't run into any issues fitting it.

[zooky08]

What needed to be shaved. I have the new style locker in the front of my Jimmy
Only problem I had was clearing the seal housing tube.

I have the old style Rd88(208) in the rear so can't help you there.

[jimny_timmy]

I purchased and installed an RD208 into the rear of my jimny about 2-3 months ago :s

Edit: I had a workshop fit the locker into the centre and then I fitted the centre into the housing so there was no mods to get it in, and I know that for a fact.

Are you sure they're fitting the right locker?

And shaving the front is part of the fitting process according to 31zook

[sideways]

This seems to be a recurring problem......

ARB are a bunch of cunce.

[joel]

A Ripoff Business.

[phantom snail]

hooki wrote:

there was a thread not to long ago about having to modify the sierra diff to fit the ARB RD208...even though the rd208 is designed to fit straight into the sierra rear end.

I just bought a 208 recently so hopefully I don't run into any issues fitting it.

I'm not too keen on having to buy a complete sierra rear end to have it modified to fit the jimny and also modified for the locker to fit

zooky08 wrote:

What needed to be shaved. I have the new style locker in the front of my Jimmy
Only problem I had was clearing the seal housing tube.

I have the old style Rd88(208) in the rear so can't help you there.

I didn't inquire what needed to be shaved ... but I was told when the complete diff housing was placed back into the housing, it wouldn't fit so the inside of my front housing had to be shaved .. not too sure what part ..

jimny_timmy wrote:

I purchased and installed an RD208 into the rear of my jimny about 2-3 months ago :s

Edit: I had a workshop fit the locker into the centre and then I fitted the centre into the housing so there was no mods to get it in, and I know that for a fact.

Are you sure they're fitting the right locker?

And shaving the front is part of the fitting process according to 31zook

The locker fits into the centre no problems .. its just the centre doesnt clear the housing on my one for some reason? the distance between the carrier bearings is 5mm too small ...
RD208 came out in 3 options ... 2 10 bolt options, and 1 12 bolt option. They tried to fit both the 2 10 bolt options and it still didn't clear the housing .. and unfortunately they cant shave the inside of the housing 5mm because it's too much ..
Perhaps you were lucky and got one of the last RD208 batches before the new "redesigned" one came out?
ARB will be confirming with me this week what the go will be regarding the locker and its design / application - but preliminary research shows that they are aware there are measurement issues, so they may be going back to the drawing board for us Jimny owners

sideways wrote:

This seems to be a recurring problem......

ARB are a bunch of cunce.

ARB are helpful and make good quality gear ... its just unfortunate the engineers who drafted the "improved" diff for the jimny must have had a bit too much to drink prior putting pen to paper

joel wrote:

A Ripoff Business.

Well they have offered a full refund on the rear diff I purchased.
I inquired about compensation for the labor involved in messing around with the rear diff and finding out that it doesn't fit .. they said they will get back to me this coming week as they have to confirm the measurements etc with their engineers ... if indeed it is their fault, more than likely I will be compensated for the labor too ....
If not, lucky I work for a law firm .. or better yet, I'll just get the ombudsman involved

[jimny_timmy]

phantom snail wrote:

The locker fits into the centre no problems .. its just the centre doesnt clear the housing on my one for some reason? the distance between the carrier bearings is 5mm too small ...
RD208 came out in 3 options ... 2 10 bolt options, and 1 12 bolt option. They tried to fit both the 2 10 bolt options and it still didn't clear the housing .. and unfortunately they cant shave the inside of the housing 5mm because it's too much ..
Perhaps you were lucky and got one of the last RD208 batches before the new "redesigned" one came out?
ARB will be confirming with me this week what the go will be regarding the locker and its design / application - but preliminary research shows that they are aware there are measurement issues, so they may be going back to the drawing board for us Jimny owners

Where did this info come from?

There would be 3 different locker numbers if they're different.

Something doesn't add up here buddy. I reckon there's a cover up happening for something they've stuffed up

[phantom snail]

jimny_timmy wrote:

phantom snail wrote:

The locker fits into the centre no problems .. its just the centre doesnt clear the housing on my one for some reason? the distance between the carrier bearings is 5mm too small ...
RD208 came out in 3 options ... 2 10 bolt options, and 1 12 bolt option. They tried to fit both the 2 10 bolt options and it still didn't clear the housing .. and unfortunately they cant shave the inside of the housing 5mm because it's too much ..
Perhaps you were lucky and got one of the last RD208 batches before the new "redesigned" one came out?
ARB will be confirming with me this week what the go will be regarding the locker and its design / application - but preliminary research shows that they are aware there are measurement issues, so they may be going back to the drawing board for us Jimny owners

Where did this info come from?

There would be 3 different locker numbers if they're different.

Something doesn't add up here buddy. I reckon there's a cover up happening for something they've stuffed up

Info came from Cosmo rep of ARB in Sydney who ordered the 2 different RD208 diffs for me from Melbourne and hand delivered them to D&R to see how they installed it and the clearance issues

I understand where you are coming from with the 3 different locker numbers .. but alas, still didn't fit my application

Haha indeed they stuffed up, he admitted that the engineers at ARB most likely fcuked up something that was perfectly good for years ....

I guess this is something not too uncommon ... I guess I'm just gonna have to wait this week and see what happens

[jimny_timmy]

http://www.arb.com.au/media/products/ai ... _chart.pdf

The revision date at the bottom is less than a week old... No mention of 3 different 208's

[phantom snail]

jimny_timmy wrote:

http://www.arb.com.au/media/products/air-lockers/application_chart.pdf

The revision date at the bottom is less than a week old... No mention of 3 different 208's

fuuaarrrkkkkkk ... not happy at all!!!!

You'd think a company this big would make sure everything is 110% before mass production ... soo blardy unhappy right now

[jimny_timmy]

phantom snail wrote:

jimny_timmy wrote:

http://www.arb.com.au/media/products/air-lockers/application_chart.pdf

The revision date at the bottom is less than a week old... No mention of 3 different 208's

fuuaarrrkkkkkk ... not happy at all!!!!

You'd think a company this big would make sure everything is 110% before mass production ... soo blardy unhappy right now

Like I said mate, I don't think they're being completely honest with you.

My bet is they've ordered the wrong locker for you (or maybe it was even packaged in the wrong box etc) and their "investigations" will be re-ordering the proper one.

[zooky08]

i think some thing is wrong, i no a few jimny drivers that have the new style locker in the rear and have no problem.
every one complains about arb but i seem to have no problem with my local arb store.
ive havd 4 lockers install from arb and not once hard a problem accept one time they routed the copper tube in the wrong spot.

i no my front was a prick to fit because theres not much room between the carrier and housing. but theres slots in the housing that the crown wheel has to line up with.
do you not if its the carrier bearing lock nut or the seal housing that comes in contact with the housing.
theres only two designs 10 bolt and 12 bolt. 10 bolt is for the vvt model jimny i think.

[jimny_timmy]

Rear diff housings have been the same from sierras through to jimnys... I'm 99% sure that the rd88 change to the 208, was some redesigning of small components, not size of the locker itself.

[bohuler]

phantom snail wrote:

ARB are helpful and make good quality gear ... its just unfortunate the engineers who drafted the "improved" diff for the jimny must have had a bit too much to drink prior putting pen to paper

One of those engineers who works at Melbourne headoffice just happens to be a suzuki driver who also happens to own a Jimny.

Like I said in your build thread mate, PM JoeBlow with all the details including the part numbers they ordered and had delivered and he will go out of his way to help if you ask nicely. He is away this weekend but will be back early next week.

Dave

[31zook]

I have an RD208 in the rear, and a RD207 in the front of my jimny, not without problems tho.

Front: the pinion was machined down to fit the Airlocker, rang ARB, and the manager (a mate of mine) said that that's normal practice, most grind them down with a grinder so they don't have to rest the pinion bearings. The edge of the axle housing had to be ground down as the (sorry for my non descript wording (that the copper line goes to to lock it in and out)) sits out further on the Airlocker then factory. Literally 40seconds with a grinder and it doesn't effect anything. (been running it for about 8000kms) and for jokes, the shop that fitted it all tapped the wrong side of the housing...

Rear: from what I can remember the rear just bolted together, it leaks a fair bit, but im lead to believe that thats due to the carrier bearing preload lock, hits on the seal ring and pushes it to one side, making it leak. Unless Suzuki have changed the design of their rear carrier (has been the same since NT 1.3-jimny) it should all fit together.

My idea is, either the shop fitted them has missed a washer or something like that or the new design is faulty.

Josh.

[phantom snail]

Having the reputation that both ARB and D&R have, I don't think they'd go as far as admitting there is a possibility with design fault unless they were pretty sure of it?
It'd be a lot easier to admit ordering or having the wrong part number .. And the chances of having 3 incorrectly ordered diffs would be pretty slim? (My original diff I purchased and the 2 diffs they had shipped up from Melbourne and trial fitted)

It's great to hear that there have been a few guys who have fitted the new style diff, it gives me hope! But it's just frustrating that mine one won't fit?
Unless it has something to do with newer model jimny's having a different rear diff housing?
I guess a better question I can ask is, has anyone with a 2005+ Jimny fitted the rd208 diff besides Jimny Timmy?

Can anyone conclusively confirm whether or not there would be a difference in an automatic and manual diff housing internal sizing? I tried running this idea past ARB and D&R but they are both adamant and say the physical internal sizing of the diff housing would be the same, the only difference lies in the internals of the diff casing, i.e gearing.. So diff housing and diff casing for both auto and manual are the same .. Does this sound about right?

Zooky08 - what model Jimny's are the ones you know that have successfully fitted the rd208?

31zook - thanks for the input Josh. What year model is your Jimny? Wow so you had dramas with fitting the rear locker too? Clearly there must be an issue with the design of the rd208 if its causing leaks which it shouldn't be?

[zooky08]

There must be three models then 206, 207, and 208, i have 206 in the front of my jimny no problem accept arb rounted the tube wrong.
Josh just said he has 207 in the front of his. Monley's jimny had the 208 in his jimny im pretty sure.

[31zook]

Nah, 208 is a 26 spline Aaron.

And mine is a 99.5 model

[jimny_timmy]

Yeah I thought 206 was for the front... Ill check when I get home this arvo to see what's on the box in my shed.

[31zook]

^ do you have a front airlocker now tim?

[zooky08]

Yes I no Rd208 is 26 spline
I checked on my box and my front is a rd206

[jimny_timmy]

31zook wrote:

^ do you have a front airlocker now tim?

I bought it at the same time as the rear... I'm waiting for your next order of chromos

[31zook]

If there is enough people I can do another run of CVs...

[phantom snail]

So had a chat with Cosmo from ARB and I've confirmed the following
- rd208 was the correct diff supplied and in the box, does not fit my diff housing
- rd204 and rd209 were both sent up from melbourne to see if they'd fit my diff housing, no go either

Issue? Distance between carrier bearing is okay, problem lies at the bottom of the diff housing where the diff casing will not fit the space at the bottom of the diff housing ... can not shave away at the housing or casing as they are both too thin already, strength and usability will be compromised and just not feasible to do

ARB melbourne have said that they think suzuki may have revised their Jimny diff housing design in 06/07 models. Manual or auto makes no difference. Either way, they are looking at the measurements sent by Glen over at D&R, and they will probably redesign a new one to suite the jimny diff housing better. How long it will take or when it will be done is a question no one knows the answer to



Perhaps time to buy a pre 05 diff housing and give it a shot? LOL .. no1 seems to know the real answer of whether or not the diff housing design is different between series 1 and series 2

[tanshi]

the difference is how thick the crown wheel is, so i would say its down to the different gear sets for jims.

we had issues with fitting them into a sierra 3.9 centre. 3.7 sierra diffs work fine.

[phantom snail]

tanshi wrote:

the difference is how thick the crown wheel is, so i would say its down to the different gear sets for jims.

we had issues with fitting them into a sierra 3.9 centre. 3.7 sierra diffs work fine.

ARB and D&R say they are aware the gear sets / ratio are different between auto and manual, but the centre/casing itself does not physically change in size itself? Just right now, it is the diff casing that does not fit into the bottom of the diff housing?
Unless the crown wheel effects clearance of casing and housing?

Excuse my noobness

[tanshi]

the crown wheel thickness of different gear sets will change how far sideways the actual locking centre moves to take up the back lash etc. this can cause interferance with the housing

[zooky08]

Im confused here. Is it the locker center that comes in contact with the housing or is it the casting of the third member the the center bolts into. If its the casting then why would you have a problem when your third member came out of your diff in the first place.
Your just replacing the original center with a airlocker center.

[tanshi]

the one i have seen was a sierra 3.9 rear centre and it was the crown wheel side of the diff hits on the bearing cap and the bearing cap needed to be machined

i dont know the why of it, i just know it happens