[Xtreme]

Just wondering if it was possible to, or if anyone has, built a hand throttle in a Jimny? It would be easy enough to make the throttle itself but what would the attachment be at the other end? would it just piggy back onto the motor end of the throttle cable? Does that mean your foot throttle would depress when you pull on the hand throttle?

[want33s]

I've seen a few hand throttles that used an old Victa lawnmower cable and chrome handle or a gear selector cable off a push bike.
You need to attach the cable to the carby linkage in a slot so the accelerator can still work independently.

The pics below are Toyotas but doesn't matter.


See how the small pushbike cable isn't clamped to the linkage, it can slide through easily (just like the cruise cable) allowing the throttle to still work as normal.



I think the easiest way to do this with the best possible result would be to look at a GQ patrol setup and then buy the GQ cable, mount it in your dash and modify your pedal to attach extra cable.
Should be cheap as chips as every GQ has one and I've never seen one worn out.

[Xtreme]

So the GQ set up you just push in your accelerator pedal then lock it off at that position with the dash mounted knob? pretty neat way of doing it if that is how it works - thanks for the suggestion I will look into it.

[joel]

great idea.

[sideways]

The GQ one you pull the knob out and then twist it to lock it in place. It pulls the pedal down.

Victas haven't had that sort of throttle since the 60s!

[Gwagensteve]

I struggle to understand the relevance of a hand throttle as a driving aid. I understand the idea for winching or operating an engine driven compressor, but a twig under the throttle stop will achieve the same result.

I think I understand the point back in the days of torquey but fairly tall geared cars that liked to surge like F engined cruisers, but I've never felt like I needed one in a suzuki (that was working properly)

Steve.

[SierraDan]

I shove a screwdriver in a spot on the pedal for a cold morning idle up, sits at 1500 nicely.

[Gwagensteve]

I'll add that if a car is otherwise working well, there should be no reason to use a hand throttle under normal driving circumstances. As in, if the choke works, it doesn't stall out, idles at the right revs etc.

Not stirring the pot, just sayin.

For the purposes of manual transmission drivability, I'd rate a line lock as 1000% more useful than a hand throttle.

Steve.

[shep]

I reckon sticking the idle up solenoid on a switch would be the go. Adjust the solenoid to what ever revs ya want and just flic the switch when needed. Simple and the bits are already there

[joel]

dont do it, gwagen says it says its not needed

[want33s]

sideways wrote:

The GQ one you pull the knob out and then twist it to lock it in place. It pulls the pedal down.

Victas haven't had that sort of throttle since the 60s!

Easier to push pedal down then pull the hand throttle and lock it.
Victas have a cool chrome steel handle that is still available.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Victa-18-oth ... 997wt_1400

Gwagensteve wrote:

I'll add that if a car is otherwise working well, there should be no reason to use a hand throttle under normal driving circumstances.

Couldn't agree more.. I've never needed it but I could see it being handy with a PTO winch.

[sideways]

want33s wrote:

sideways wrote:

The GQ one you pull the knob out and then twist it to lock it in place. It pulls the pedal down.

Victas haven't had that sort of throttle since the 60s!

Easier to push pedal down then pull the hand throttle and lock it.
Victas have a cool chrome steel handle that is still available.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Victa-18-oth ... 997wt_1400

Gwagensteve wrote:

I'll add that if a car is otherwise working well, there should be no reason to use a hand throttle under normal driving circumstances.

Couldn't agree more.. I've never needed it but I could see it being handy with a PTO winch.

Victa phased out those throttles in the mid to late 60s when everything went to the snorkel setup. Victa cylinder mowers and industrial engines had them in the 70s though. As you say, pretty cool items. I've got a few of them, all pitted though.

I've had a few times when I've really wanted a hand throttle in the LJ81, if it had lockers (hand throttle would be handy when you're left foot braking sometimes), it wasn't completely gutless and didn't have suspension made out of rock I'd have little use for one though.

When moving animals on the farm with the Sierra I'd put it in first low and pull the choke a little to bring the revs up. It'd crawl along at walking pace and I could walk along keeping the cows moving without having to get in and out all the time or walk back to the car. That was pretty handy. Without the choke bringing the revs up it'd stall if it hit a bump or some mud.

[Scales]

My understanding is they are more for tackling undulating style tracks where you need a nice consistent throttle rather than bouncing on the pedal, not for idle up when cold etc (but obviously can).

not for us to decide whether he "needs" it or not, if he wants one go for it! We dont all have the same driving style. And I wouldnt mind seeing the results personally!
haters gonna hate, and theres plenty of them on here lol

[Xtreme]

The reason I was looking at doing one was I just seem to have trouble keeping the throttle steady when going up steep and very rutted (as in lots of drop down into ruts - not just rough ruts that you can follow easily) hills as every time I drop in fairly hard into a hole (although Im trying to keep a low to moderate momentum) I inadvertently find my foot pushes the accelerator. I try wedging it against the side wall but I have enough trouble fitting my feet down there as is and its just not working for me.
So the only thing I was going to use it for was those climbs when I want to set revs, pick a gear and try let it go up something at a slow steady pace.
It is something that I am going to do and just see if it suits what I think it will do and if not it will take 2 minutes to pull back out.
I don't get offended with peoples opinions for or against aspects of my build I usually find both views informative and help me to make my decisions so thanks for the input everyone I will put it into my build thread "Camp Crawler Build" in the Rigs section and let you all know how it goes.

[tanshi]

i will be putting one in the LJ50 but its more for keeping the revs up when in tight spots and the Powersteer is killing the motor.

for a jimny which should have powersteer idle up etc it shouldnt be needed.
maybe try a heavyer return spring on the throttle, for the issue you havving

[droverdave]

I would be worried about having the throttle held on by something other than my foot in an emergency type situation.

If you did it you i think you would want to make it very easy to release it very quickly.

[royce]

I put one in my old Sierra, was a pushbike shift lever and cable, it just pulled on teh accelerator pedal.

looked cool and everyone went wow when I said what it was, it was however the most useless thing ive ever done to a car.

If the track is rough enough to make it hard to sit still, you wont be doing it with a fixed throttle.

Sideways has about the good use for it I can think of, they sure are useless off road

[Chop]

Xtreme wrote:

The reason I was looking at doing one was I just seem to have trouble keeping the throttle steady when going up steep and very rutted (as in lots of drop down into ruts - not just rough ruts that you can follow easily) hills as every time I drop in fairly hard into a hole (although Im trying to keep a low to moderate momentum) I inadvertently find my foot pushes the accelerator. I try wedging it against the side wall but I have enough trouble fitting my feet down there as is and its just not working for me.
So the only thing I was going to use it for was those climbs when I want to set revs, pick a gear and try let it go up something at a slow steady pace.
It is something that I am going to do and just see if it suits what I think it will do and if not it will take 2 minutes to pull back out.
I don't get offended with peoples opinions for or against aspects of my build I usually find both views informative and help me to make my decisions so thanks for the input everyone I will put it into my build thread "Camp Crawler Build" in the Rigs section and let you all know how it goes.

You've been watching Roothy to much in his old diesel?

[joel]

wen used with an auto, i have found them to be most pleasurable, especially when shooting pigs otr foxes, each to their own.

[got_bar_work]

Sierra cruise control
I had a bike gear shift lever on the coily it stuck on one day and got riped back out agin

[Gwagensteve]

Chop wrote:

You've been watching Roothy to much in his old diesel?

There is some truth in this. Diesels will drive steep/undulating terrain with a hand throttle quite well because they respond to throttle quite differently to a petrol. I went through this back in the early 90's when I did driver training with the land cruiser club. Small petrol cars need lots of throttle adjustment to maintain steady progress under the same circumstances, unless they have crazy low gearing.

Just my 2c.

Steve.

[headwerkn]

Personally I think hand throttles are one of the most useful features you can have on a 4WD.

Thinking back, pretty much every offroader my family has owned (bar my parents' recently acquired Prado) has had a hand throttle, and they've all been used regularly in the bush.

Xtreme's got the idea: for making smooth, steady progress along heavily rutted, rocky and/or undulating tracks where maintaining steady throttle input could be a challenge - simply because you're being bounced around so much - it is great to set the hand throttle to 1500-2000rpm (or thereabouts, you'd maybe need a bit more in a Zook), select low range, 1st gear, ease out the clutch and let the car work its way along the track while you concentrate fully on picking the best line. Gives a much more comfortable ride for your passenger(s) and saves your drivetrain and clutch from "pulsing" your way forward.

For some reason there are a lot of tracks like this around the Tasmanian Central Highlands... I know last summer getting in and around Bronte Lagoon with a Ford Courier, we were using the hand throttle a good deal of the time.

The other scenario where we use them a lot is when winching. My father uses the winch on the said Ford Courier to drag fallen logs up closer the truck when wood cutting; the hand throttle makes it very easy to dial in 1500-1800rpm to keep the power up to the winch while it does its thing. Saves having to maintain steady revs with your foot while the left foot is on the brake stopping the car from shifting).

Clearly it is a personal preference and some people may never find a genuine use for one.... but I wouldn't call them without merit. It'll be one of the first mods to be done to my Vitara - especially as it is cheap and pretty easy to do too.

Keep Zookin'...

Ben.

[Bazuka]

I am not much of a fan of auto lockers and thought a hand throttle would be great on rough sections of track. I could use the hand throttle and I could brake with my right foot to keep traction when a wheel is slipping with less risk of stalling the engine... I could left foot break but this would keep my left foot free to use the clutch for changing gear or stopping if I need to. Shifting from right foot breaking to left foot breaking is to much of a mind trick for me on a rough track when I am picking lines.

I want one and think if you did not have lockers and learnt to use it properly it could be very useful.

[atari4x4]

automatic transmission

[Bazuka]

atari4x4 wrote:

Automatic transmission

Where is the fun in that... Love to hear the little 1.3 climb to the red line!

[atari4x4]

been there done that

hate to break it to you, but auto's rule off road... end of story & yeah i can't get my v6 to bounce off the limiter like tut tut tut tut tut for maximum respect + i hear it makes the bitches moist.

way off topic but it's food for thought...

Gwagensteve wrote:

suzpect90 wrote:

what makes the auto better then a manual box ? are there things that make having a auto better apart from the having to change gears?

And I'll weigh in with the more technical reason.

Because an auto is like hydraulic drive- by using left foot braking, you can separate torque at the wheels from wheel speed. That's really valuable- it means you can crawl over obstacles very slowly but in perfect control. Never roll back when pulling away regardless of how steep the hill is. Stop the car with absolute precision- like anything else with hydro drive, like a Bobcat.


Steve.

[Bazuka]

atari4x4 wrote:

been there done that

hate to break it to you, but auto's rule off road... end of story & yeah i can't get my v6 to bounce off the limiter like tut tut tut tut tut for maximum respect + i hear it makes the bitches moist.

way off topic but it's food for thought...

That's the reason we all own the smallest 4x4's you can get... To get maximum respect and make the bitches moist.

I know auto's are the shiz nut... And I can't think of anything credible to ague otherwise...

[atari4x4]

i've always thought a grip shifter would make a good hand throttle on the transfer lever at least then you wont be grabbing at it every time you change gears.

could almost trim it down & still get a shift nob back on it.

[Marko_SJ]

With 6.5's theres a gear for everything Don't really see the need for a hand throttle, with the tiny tires I've got I actually have to be careful how I release the clutch.

[Gwagensteve]

I reckon we really need someone who fits a hand throttle to give us some proper before and after driving impressions.

Please note, I'm not telling anyone much less "stopping" anyone from building whatever they like, but in the interests of a discussion about the worth of a hand throttle in our application, there's a couple more things I'd like to raise.

Firstly, a point on safety. I'm going to suggest there's two types of hand throttle - one for stationary use, and one as a driving aid. I reckon that the hand throttles fitted to older Japanese 4WD's were there for stationary use - warm up, winching, pto operation etc. I don't think they are effective as a driving aid as they are fiddly to set and you have to take you hands well away from the important controls (gearstick/steering) to actuate them. I don't think that's an accident, I really think that's because they aren't intended for use whilst the car is in motion. I tried quite a bit when I had Hiluxes in the 90's and I reckoned they were a huge hassle.

The other type - the "driving aid" in my opinion, is best setup as a lever on the (manual) transmission lever. I reckon they should always be set up with a return spring. In the event of an emergency/rollover etc, as soon as you take your finger off the lever the car drops to idle. This sort of lever might be useful to aid in launching the car on greasy climbs etc, as the driver can simultaneously have a foot on the brake and clutch. I'll get to that in a minute though, because I think that hand throttles of this type are a bit counterintuitive.

I was always taught to put the side of my right foot against the kick panel to eliminate surging or bouncing on the throttle. I haven't really thought about it, but I guess I must do that as second nature now, however, I've only ever driven well geared cars (and/or autos) for the last 15 years or so. I do remember this being a big help in Hiluxes with poor gearing though.


All of this said though, I really, really think that hand throttles are less useful than they might appear, and the reason is due to the nature of our engines. we don't really want a constant pressure on the throttle - small changes in load (due to angle, rocks, tree roots, even steering) will cause revs to fluctuate*see my note below if you're a nerd, the driver is always making small changes to throttle to correct changes in load. A hand throttle can't do that (unless it's the sprung, fingertip style) The surging isn't really cancelled out at all - it's still happening, but now you feel like you're less in control because if you set the throttle against a certain load, a reduction in load will see revs rise surprisingly. All up it ends up in a whole lot of jiggling and fiddling to end up with little real advantage. By all means have a go, but it's not going to make the car drive like it's properly geared, or like it has an auto in it.

Now to my 2C worth about what's far, far better than a hand throttle - A line lock.

Bazuka mentioned braking the car to modulate speed against (increased) engine revs with a hand throttle. I have tried this, and it's freakin' near impossible because it's really counterintuitive - like using the accelerator as a brake in an automatic 4WD. However, if you use a line lock, you can do this and still drive the car completely normally - engage the line lock, tap the brakes to where you want them, then drive the car. when that gets old, just release the button and you're back to normal.

If it's launching the car that's an issue, a line lock with a momentary switch on the gear lever has it ALL over a hand throttle. Stop the car normally, hit the line lock, build revs as required, slightly load the clutch, then release the line lock - perfect starts with no rolling back, at any revs.

I prefer to drive an auto offroad, but I can vouch that a line lock in a well geared manual is absolutely awesome - especially with a momentary AND rocker switch - that way you can swap between the two - stop the car, lock it on the rocker switch, get out - whatever - get back in, hold the momentary switch down, release the rocker switch (the car is still held on the line lock) and then launch at will.

The biggest reason why I think a line lock is superior is you don't need to relearn to drive. The brake is still the brake and the throttle is still the throttle - it's just like adding the best handbrake in the world. Hand throttles make me nervous because you have to learn to modulate a "new" control, and I don't think that's necessary, or a good idea.

Just some thoughts. I'd love to see some video of a car with a hand throttle on and off on the same bit of track. I reckon they are more useful in theory than in practice.

Steve.

* A little nerdy note on this. Lots of guys in the US are sourcing 4BT and 6BT Cummins Diesels to put into, well, everything really. There are lots of variants of these, and some are intended as stationary or hydraulic drive engines. These have a totally different kind of fuel pump to an automotive diesel - they are load reactive, not throttle reactive. An automotive throttle leaves load compensation up to the driver - start going up a hill and you have to press the accelerator harder. A stationary engine is set up so the operator sets the revs they desire and then the engine keeps feeding in fuel/boost to maintain those revs. This sort of engine would work perfectly with a hand throttle, but they are pretty weird to drive on the road, according to the US guys that have tried it. Think about your lawn mower - it works the same way - you set revs and then the carby feeds in more fuel to maintain those revs regardless of load (until the engine runs out of torque, and then revs fall)