[magnat]

Well as you know I had an ECB bar fitted..
Well... the Recovery thingo they provided failed... and you can't snatch from the factory one as its covered up by the bar....

They said it was a "Tow Point" only. Fair enough but it should not have bent when the XL-7 was being recovered from a bog that was only 40cm deep rut by a 1.6L Shorty !

So..
My Options are to Weld a Tow hook
directly to the chassis rails... They cannot use the bolts.. Just the hook..


Has anyone else got any suggestions on getting some PROPER recovery points installed !!!

[Zook_Fan]

Do not weld one of those directly to your chassis. You should not be welding anything to your chassis. Why are you opposed to using bolts?

[magnat]

There is no where under the front to use the bolts.. thats the main problem with the XL-7.. I am looking at ALL options..

[Chop]

There is places to bolt it, but they're made useless by a bullbar in the way.And yes welding to chassis is a no no.

[shabz]

Any pics of the failed one?

[atari4x4]

shabz wrote:

Any pics of the failed one?

+1

is this the recovery point that was installed with the front bar?

[magnat]

Yep...

Sorry about the size.. its the best one I have..

Its bent.. the tow loop on the vehicle is OK..
I have also checked on the Welding to the chassis.
I am NOT doing the welding by myself.. it is getting done by an Authorised panel beater.. So I am pretty sure they wouldn't offer something that was illegal as their reputation would be SHOT...

We are looking at all possible options.. Even Looking at making a recovery point that comes down off where the Bullbar bolts in..

ALL possibilities are being considered as it is TOTALLY POINTLESS having a 4x4 that cannot be recovered !

[magnat]

I am also wondering how did they mount nudge bars ??? I mean surely they must have mounted Nudge bars some how and a Plate could be made up to come off from where the nudge bars would be mounted to ??

[Chop]

My nudge bar bolted to brackets that run down in the chassis to a point further back, have a look at the JML winch bar brackets and you'll see a point further back down the chassis and the nudge bar chassis brackets are similar to those.
One of the reasons I jumped on a JML bar straight away when they were announced is the fact its a bar that has recovery points and winch capabilities. No other gv bar has them and to me it makes them useless.
Lucky I got a towbar fitted as the rear is useless for recoveries also.

[magnat]

There has to be some more options some how.. Anyone ever fabricated one ???

[royce]

magnat wrote:

There has to be some more options some how.. Anyone ever fabricated one ???

There is probably 3 people here have that bar and I guess none of them would call that sideways bend damage.

Just hammer it straight and be more careful next time, if you are really worried make a new thicker one.

quality recovery hooks have DO NOT WELD stamped into them, neither you nor you panel beater mate have the knowledge to know why welding something like that to a chassis rail is so bad and will result in a death.

[Zook_Fan]

royce wrote:

Just hammer it straight and be more careful next time, if you are really worried make a new thicker one.

This. A thicker one would be extremely easy to make, two holes for bolts, one large one for a shackle and a 90 degree bend. Throw a gusset into it if you want more strength.

[magnat]

royce wrote:

magnat wrote:

There has to be some more options some how.. Anyone ever fabricated one ???

There is probably 3 people here have that bar and I guess none of them would call that sideways bend damage.

Just hammer it straight and be more careful next time, if you are really worried make a new thicker one.

quality recovery hooks have DO NOT WELD stamped into them, neither you nor you panel beater mate have the knowledge to know why welding something like that to a chassis rail is so bad and will result in a death.

Royce.. It wont be some back yard Weld job... It will be engineered...
If it lets go then it will be the same result if the factory tow point lets go..
Which in the case of the ECB bar WORSE as it has those honking great big metal plates attached to it..

I have already seen one Vit with Landcruiser recovery plates welded to the frame.. As I said I am open to all options.
BUT the fact remains the same.. the Stock hoop is not a recovery point... I want a Proper one.. Something that can take the shock loading of a snatch..

I don't have the skills to work with Metal and anything I make would probably result in death anyway..

Ah I see why you went a little heavy... I should have stated that I am getting a Plate welded to the chassis.. Not to the Hook..
Welding a Hook de-rates it making it useless...

[magnat]

What about a Front tow bar hitch ??

[royce]

magnat wrote:

royce wrote:

magnat wrote:

There has to be some more options some how.. Anyone ever fabricated one ???

There is probably 3 people here have that bar and I guess none of them would call that sideways bend damage.

Just hammer it straight and be more careful next time, if you are really worried make a new thicker one.

quality recovery hooks have DO NOT WELD stamped into them, neither you nor you panel beater mate have the knowledge to know why welding something like that to a chassis rail is so bad and will result in a death.

Royce.. It wont be some back yard Weld job... It will be engineered...
If it lets go then it will be the same result if the factory tow point lets go..
Which in the case of the ECB bar WORSE as it has those honking great big metal plates attached to it..

I have already seen one Vit with Landcruiser recovery plates welded to the frame.. As I said I am open to all options.
BUT the fact remains the same.. the Stock hoop is not a recovery point... I want a Proper one.. Something that can take the shock loading of a snatch..

I don't have the skills to work with Metal and anything I make would probably result in death anyway..

Ah I see why you went a little heavy... I should have stated that I am getting a Plate welded to the chassis.. Not to the Hook..
Welding a Hook de-rates it making it useless...

Dont weld anything, just don't.

Anyone that has the skill to make the weld successful wont do it cause they will know how dangerous it is, anyone that thinks it will be ok doesnt understand where the failure points are

The stock hoop (never seen one break) wont fly off, it will deform then let go on one side, so you have lots of warning to ease up or risk death

if you must have a hook make 2 plates to sandwich either side of the chassis and bolt through so its all retained

[magnat]

OK.... lets pretend I have no stock hoop... Now what are the options??

[Zook_Fan]

Get a length of 75x6mm or 75x8mm flat bar or however wide that bent thing is.
Drill two holes in it to mount it.
Drill a bigger hole in it for a shackle at the other end.
Stick in vice and bend it to whatever angle you need.
If still worried get boilermaker friend to weld a gusset in between the bolt holes if there is space or one on each end if there isn't.
Bolt up to bar in same spot as bent one.

[magnat]

Zook_Fan wrote:

Get a length of 75x6mm or 75x8mm flat bar or however wide that bent thing is.
Drill two holes in it to mount it.
Drill a bigger hole in it for a shackle at the other end.
Stick in vice and bend it to whatever angle you need.
If still worried get boilermaker friend to weld a gusset in between the bolt holes if there is space or one on each end if there isn't.
Bolt up to bar in same spot as bent one.

Thanks Zook_Fan I will look into this option !

[fordem]

magnat wrote:

OK.... lets pretend I have no stock hoop... Now what are the options??

Zook_Fan wrote:

Get a length of 75x6mm or 75x8mm flat bar or however wide that bent thing is.
Drill two holes in it to mount it.
Drill a bigger hole in it for a shackle at the other end.
Stick in vice and bend it to whatever angle you need.
If still worried get boilermaker friend to weld a gusset in between the bolt holes if there is space or one on each end if there isn't.
Bolt up to bar in same spot as bent one.

magnat wrote:

Thanks Zook_Fan I will look into this option !

Given the fact that the bent one was bolted to the stock hoop, that you're pretending is not there - where are you planning to bolt it?

[magnat]

ANYWHERE.. I mean I ideally want two recovery points on the front.. I can get the rear covered with a Tow bar and Recovery hitch but the front needs more !

I mean there has to be people out there that have snapped or broken or warped their stock hoop.. I am looking for answers on how to get another one fitted.. I mean I want to know options for worst case scenerio..
If I am going to tour with this thing I don't want to rely on the one point.. If it breaks and I am out the back of nowhere... then how the heck can you get it out when the Maxxtraxx have failed..

I have been told the lower suspension arm can be used... but I don't really want to get recovered off a Suspension component.. as thats just going to lead to more trouble..

[droverdave]

I dont think people realise the strength in bolts. get some 12.9 grade in an m12 or m14 and you wont snap them thats for sure.

Why dont you getsome proper photos up of the front end of your car so we can suggest some places to bolt the thing?

[jdk81]

More often that not, its not so much the strength in the bolts, more so the strength in the chassis the things bolt too.

I wouldn't have a problem with fish plates welded to the chassis, then drilled with crush tubes inserted, then the recovery hook bolted to that assembly.
But you would probably need to get engineers approval to do that.
You may get away with it, if its deemed to be repairing damage done to a suitable standard etc... but id advise you speak with an engineer.

BUT Id really need to see one, preferably in person with a good deal of thinking time etc before I would do anything.

[magnat]

droverdave.. I will definitely get some pics up of the front end..
For now, I am getting another tie down extension made... It will just take them some time to do it..

[atari4x4]

magnat wrote:

OK.... lets pretend I have no stock hoop... Now what are the options??

where did the stock hoop go?

[Built4thrashing]

This is the current aftermarket recovery point.




The front bar bolts on using a plate with nuts welded to it that slides into the chasis and is bolted on using the existing holes on the inside of the chasis. It is also bolted on using the top hole in the chasis. You can also make up a bar that picks up the 2 bolts under the cross member and is bent up to attach to the plate in side the chasis. (similar to the ones in the pic that fix to the winch plate.)

There are not alot of options . You just need to be creative in your thinking or dont get stuck.

[DAB]

i still think if you get two approx 10mm plates either side of your standard recovery point and then get two big arse bolts
and bolt your after market hook to it that should do it??????

[royce]

droverdave wrote:

I dont think people realise the strength in bolts. get some 12.9 grade in an m12 or m14 and you wont snap them thats for sure.

Why dont you getsome proper photos up of the front end of your car so we can suggest some places to bolt the thing?

Go do the sums, 2x M12 8.8 will shear at about 5 'ton' of load
We have already worked out before thanks to a lot of patience from Moph that we can generate 8 'ton' of force in a snatch recovery.

so we have just added a great missle to the front.

[magnat]

The ECB one Royce is already a Missile.. I am just looking to get a BETTER one made../fitted so two recovery points can share the snatch load as opposed to just one..
Mine was fitted exactly the same as built4thrashings but it couldn't take the strain of a recovery... The top triangle bit slide down past the Chassis rails and the lower section bent..

[jdk81]

We are not being haters etc... we are not calling you an idiot etc
perhaps we all dealing with the frustration of the complexities of proper recovery points.

I assume from the bent plate and the "can opener" going to the side, it was a recovery with quite of a deal of side force on it.
Side snatches are really not great either, but in some situations, what do you do?

As discussed in an earlier thread, the top section is like a can opener.

As discussed earlier, equaliser straps arent too great on a suzuki chassis, places a lot of compression load on not overly strong cross members. bettrt having one point thats strong.

We have often use rope and snatch blocks etc to get the recovery as straight as possible.
Some times we need to use a shovel etc.

If you plated your can opener, and kept recoveries as straight as possible and as gentle as possible it should be ok. if in doubt, grab a shovel.

[droverdave]

royce wrote:

droverdave wrote:

I dont think people realise the strength in bolts. get some 12.9 grade in an m12 or m14 and you wont snap them thats for sure.

Why dont you getsome proper photos up of the front end of your car so we can suggest some places to bolt the thing?

Go do the sums, 2x M12 8.8 will shear at about 5 'ton' of load
We have already worked out before thanks to a lot of patience from Moph that we can generate 8 'ton' of force in a snatch recovery.

so we have just added a great missle to the front.

What safety factor is the 5 tons based on?