[atari4x4]

i clearly remember your post, on your FB home page, as DH Hart before you deleted that account bitching about the shitty fuel at Norlunga liberty causing your GV/XL-7 in your FB profile pic to run rough, am i ringing any bells? that post of yours sounds identical to what you wrote below...

dhglory wrote:

think it differs from station, I've put in the 100 octane from liberty (ethanol) and it ran crap!! no guts, surging and running on 3-4 cil. (out of 6) in the morning on start up only getting better after 5 minutes or so.. had a good talk to the owner of the petrol station about his fuel being rubbish!. filled up again to see how his fuel went ( free of charge) as he swears by his high octane fuel and it went like rocket that weekend..... maybe just a bad batch...

dhglory wrote:

None in VIC. but I care enough to bring you the good news, liberty old Noarlunga has the magic mushroom blend.

are you suggesting i go to the liberty that sells shit fuel & then go back & complain & get another free tank of shit fuel?

[dhglory]

Btw, been on the phone with the state manager of liberty, seems like he is the only one selling it so I assume it's a blend he gets from elsewhere.

[atari4x4]

[dhglory]

atari4x4 wrote:

i clearly remember your post, on your FB home page, as DH Hart before you deleted that account bitching about the shitty fuel at Norlunga liberty causing your GV/XL-7 in your FB profile pic to run rough, am i ringing any bells? that post of yours sounds identical to what you wrote below...

dhglory wrote:

think it differs from station, I've put in the 100 octane from liberty (ethanol) and it ran crap!! no guts, surging and running on 3-4 cil. (out of 6) in the morning on start up only getting better after 5 minutes or so.. had a good talk to the owner of the petrol station about his fuel being rubbish!. filled up again to see how his fuel went ( free of charge) as he swears by his high octane fuel and it went like rocket that weekend..... maybe just a bad batch...

dhglory wrote:

None in VIC. but I care enough to bring you the good news, liberty old Noarlunga has the magic mushroom blend.

are you suggesting i go to the liberty that sells shit fuel & then go back & complain & get another free tank of shit fuel?

I really don't give a toss if you do or don't and keep ranting about your outback buddy. My lunchtime is over gents, it was my pleasure to entertain you all but duty calls.

[atari4x4]

sweet dreams sjaaak

[kenn]

I've run BP 98 octane almost exclusively in all my cars since not long after it came out. At that time I was a courier in Melbourne, I would use on average 50 to 60lts of fuel a day and filled up from just about every servo around. I tried every type of unleaded fuel available in an effort to maximise my income. I found that BP 98 gave me the best economy and power in my Jimny, where Catex and Mobil were like pulling on the hand brake, that was real world mathematics and yes some servos are worse than others, six years of couriering taught me that.
Now I'm a tiler and tow a tool trailer every day with my 3.2 GV and before that my 2.5 GV, again I've tried a few different 98 octane fuels and even the United 100 octane sugar juice you speak of, my opinion is that the 100 octane made real no difference to 98 other than it seemed to idle smoother, I also tried it in my LJ and the economy went down hill as Steve said, though it did seem to accelerate better.
I've had no cold start or idle problems with BP 98 ever. Maybe your servo has old tanks or something.
Changing the fuel filter wouldn't do any harm, you may face filled up just after a delivery, this churns up all the crap and water in the tanks and can sometimes make it into your tank.

[dhglory]

kenn wrote:

I've run BP 98 octane almost exclusively in all my cars since not long after it came out. At that time I was a courier in Melbourne, I would use on average 50 to 60lts of fuel a day and filled up from just about every servo around. I tried every type of unleaded fuel available in an effort to maximise my income. I found that BP 98 gave me the best economy and power in my Jimny, where Catex and Mobil were like pulling on the hand brake, that was real world mathematics and yes some servos are worse than others, six years of couriering taught me that.
Now I'm a tiler and tow a tool trailer every day with my 3.2 GV and before that my 2.5 GV, again I've tried a few different 98 octane fuels and even the United 100 octane sugar juice you speak of, my opinion is that the 100 octane made real no difference to 98 other than it seemed to idle smoother, I also tried it in my LJ and the economy went down hill as Steve said, though it did seem to accelerate better.
I've had no cold start or idle problems with BP 98 ever. Maybe your servo has old tanks or something.
Changing the fuel filter wouldn't do any harm, you may face filled up just after a delivery, this churns up all the crap and water in the tanks and can sometimes make it into your tank.

cheers Kenn !!! almost starting to think I am a ranting know it all but to the non believers and welcome to this an of worms mate.
STEVE: read, "seems to accelerate better", "idle smoother". sorry, im not judging your intelligence here let that be clear, but now there are 2 yesses in this can of worms.
coming from a courier hat drives just about 8 hours a day 5 days a week keeping log books and knowing every cent that goes into that tank is a pretty reliable source of the real life facts. I don't think I've mentioned anywhere that I fill up all the time with 100 oc, only when I happen to go past it which is ones a month. V-power 98 is is what I fill up with 99ty% of the time.
again Kenn, you just made my day

[Marko_SJ]

atari4x4 wrote:

something

interchangeable user over the days/weeks/months/years wrote:

^^^ X 9@boostjuice.com

There's always someone that will take on Gus and make suzuki talk more interesting

[Chop]

dhglory wrote:

V-power 98 is is what I fill up with 99ty% of the time.

From Mclaren vale, on the way back to the funny farm?

[atari4x4]

Kind of a coincidence that old mate jack used to sign off with the old lunchtime is over I've got better things to do & here is old mate doing the same thing... You keep revealing more & more every time you postt, keep it up old man!!

[karlmarkiewicz]

Now come to think of it. I don't think I have filled up with BP 98 yet. I have only done 3 tanks of 98 in my car since owning it. First 2 were catlex and i am currently on my third which is Coles Shell. All three tanks have the struggle on start up. I actually have to accelerate a bit when starting just so it doesn't stall. I will try BP after this tank. Although remember, I am getting good economy even though it struggles.

[kenn]

Just a suggestion, The first tank you got may have been contaminated which could carry through to the other fuel you're putting in but that wouldn't explain why it's getting worse, could be a poor spark thing. Try it on regular unleaded even just $20 worth but put it in from empty and let us know.
From what Steve says the fuel shouldn't make any difference.

[karlmarkiewicz]

kenn wrote:

Just a suggestion, The first tank you got may have been contaminated which could carry through to the other fuel you're putting in but that wouldn't explain why it's getting worse, could be a poor spark thing. Try it on regular unleaded even just $20 worth but put it in from empty and let us know.
From what Steve says the fuel shouldn't make any difference.

I have heard a few people, including atari say that certain fuel makes the car run rough and struggle on start. I think what steve is saying that fuel can't make your car go faster. I have no idea whether that is right or wrong though.
I don't drive often so it will be a few weeks before I am empty again, but I will try 95 again once I run dry. cheers.

[JrZook]

How many k's and when were the injectors cleaned? How old is the fuel pump?

[karlmarkiewicz]

JrZook wrote:

How many k's and when were the injectors cleaned? How old is the fuel pump?

Haven't physically cleaned the injectors since owning (apart from about 4 tanks of injector cleaner) , and the fuel pump, I assume has never been changed. But nothing is wrong with my car. It purrs when running on 95, just the 98 it struggles. I am yet to try BP, which I hear is pretty good.

[atari4x4]

you tried the dickhead glory special potato blend yet or do we still have to wait for gwagen to shut the refinery down & pump out a special batch?

[frysie]

get your injectors ultrasonically cleaned.
check fuel filter
check the sock on your fuel pump

[Reubs]

karlmarkiewicz wrote:

But nothing is wrong with my car. It purrs when running on 95, just the 98 it struggles. I am yet to try BP, which I hear is pretty good.

Something would have to be wrong for you to notice so much...

I have run my Vitara with 91, 95, 98, from BP, Shell, Caltex, 7-11, independents etc, from small servos in 1 pub towns as well as big servos in capital cities and never had a noticeable performance drop from any of those fuels. I normally run 98RON when I can get it but the Vitara has never had a problem with any fuel I have fed it although I've yet to try Opal! Ditto for my Sierras and the Carby Vit I drove for a while.

[dhglory]

karlmarkiewicz wrote:

JrZook wrote:

How many k's and when were the injectors cleaned? How old is the fuel pump?

Haven't physically cleaned the injectors since owning (apart from about 4 tanks of injector cleaner) , and the fuel pump, I assume has never been changed. But nothing is wrong with my car. It purrs when running on 95, just the 98 it struggles. I am yet to try BP, which I hear is pretty good.

it's not a diesel, if your injectors were clogged up they wouldn't squirt at all and a fuel pump doesn't gradually wears out, it stops working instantly. so you can rule those 2 factors out. it might be the fuel, it might be the IAC valve hose split, it can be a few things. check your timing and set it on 6 degr.btdc. that's the sweet spot on mine running 98. now let the funny comments roooooll in again.

[dhglory]

atari4x4 wrote:

you tried the dickhead glory special potato blend yet or do we still have to wait for gwagen to shut the refinery down & pump out a special batch?

had a look at a few pics on that robe trip, nice cap your wearing, suits you. have you tried wearing it in bed?, you might be able to fuck yourself.

[vit1990]

Haha, this is a good read.
I've tried running my car on 95 and 98 and can't tell the difference in performance. I'm not even sure the fuel economy is any better on 98.

[JrZook]

dhglory wrote:

it's not a diesel, if your injectors were clogged up they wouldn't squirt at all and a fuel pump doesn't gradually wears out, it stops working instantly. so you can rule those 2 factors out.

Fuel injectors can gum up and cause poor spray patterns which will not help in starting. The fuel pump is most likely a gerotor positive displacement pump with a brushed motor and will wear as time goes by causing a reduction in pressure especially on initial power up. The one-way valve built in to the pump could also be worn and cause the fuel pressure to drop while standing causing a longer start time.

I'm in the same mind frame as reubs on this one. Regardless of the fuel type its all volatile! Provided it sprays in at the right amount and you have a correctly timed spark I don't see an issue with the fuel alone. All seems rather odd..

[tanshi]

JrZook wrote:

dhglory wrote:

it's not a diesel, if your injectors were clogged up they wouldn't squirt at all and a fuel pump doesn't gradually wears out, it stops working instantly. so you can rule those 2 factors out.

Fuel injectors can gum up and cause poor spray patterns which will not help in starting. The fuel pump is most likely a gerotor positive displacement pump with a brushed motor and will wear as time goes by causing a reduction in pressure especially on initial power up. The one-way valve built in to the pump could also be worn and cause the fuel pressure to drop while standing causing a longer start time.

I'm in the same mind frame as reubs on this one. Regardless of the fuel type its all volatile! Provided it sprays in at the right amount and you have a correctly timed spark I don't see an issue with the fuel alone. All seems rather odd..

come on JR your not a doctor yet, dont bring logic and facts into this clearly inteligent conversation

[Marko_SJ]

Intelligent or not I can't wait for the next dhgloryhole post.

[dhglory]

vit1990 wrote:

Haha, this is a good read.
I've tried running my car on 95 and 98 and can't tell the difference in performance. I'm not even sure the fuel economy is any better on 98.

there would be bugger all in it vit1990, this whole debate started when I mentioned the premium max 100. and for some reason the facts don't match up with the real life experiences some had on here. mate , even ch.7 kochy couldn't convince me it's crap !
coming down from Horsham tomorrow again on 98 shell, will try to empty the tank and fill up with the "magic gogo juice" again. maybe this time I should try not to be stoned.

[karlmarkiewicz]

So many things to reply to, I couldn't be bothered quoting.

Basically, car ran perfectly on 95, just pretty poor fuel economy, since going to 98 I have tried ONLY two brands of fuel, catlex and shell, both give me the struggling problem, BUT the economy is MUCH BETTER.

Now Reubs, you say you have tried pretty much all the fuels and you have had no performance differences, I am not doubting this, although I have witnessed bad fuel and what it can do to my mates cars. A particular pump at a shell servo literally stuffed his engine, and he was up for nearly $1000 to get it fixed. He then got a jerry can of the stuff from the same pump, put it in his lawn mower, and it too carked it. So I know for a fact there can be bad fuel batches out there, but then again, I must pretty unlucky to get bad fuel three times in a row right?

What I will do, is when i run out of this tank, I will try a bit, maybe half a tank of 95 and see how she runs, if it runs poorly, obviously the 98 did something to my car that I will have to investigate. If it runs good, then I will have to investigate it still hahah

I do have a question though. Say I didn't get bad fuel, what would the 98 do to my car to make it struggle on start, that the 95 wouldn't do?
Does 95 flow through the injectors better or something? Strange that I am getting good economy but it struggles on start :/

[dhglory]

could as simple as your IAC stuck/clogged up. pretty common apparently

[karlmarkiewicz]

dhglory wrote:

could as simple as your IAC stuck/clogged up. pretty common apparently

Would that make it run bad on 95 though?

[karlmarkiewicz]

Unless the 98 maybe cleaned out the filer and lines and then the gunk it cleaned off got clogged somewhere, meaning if I go to 95 it will still struggle?

[Gwagensteve]

I've done some research on cold starting with "high octane" fuel, following a hunch I had.

Effectively, the higher the octane the fuel has, the harder it is to start under adverse conditions (i.e when the engine is cold) Octane is a measure of knock resistance, or effectively the resistance of the fuel to self ignite.... ergo, it's actually harder to get lit. This is a simplification, but nonetheless, it is what's happening.

It turns out hard cold starting is one of the primary reasons it's not recommended to run higher octane fuel than the manufacturer recommends.

if you experience a measurable improvement in economy* using a higher octane fuel, then you can choose whether the cold starting hassles justify the use of the higher octane brew.

*Note I said economy here, not performance. In any pre-M or J series motor, there isn't going to be any detectable improvement in performance. In order to detect a performance improvement, a "seat of the pants" test requires around a 10% increase in Kw for the driver to detect the change. That's not possible without a specific calibration for 98 octane fuel. (in fact, it's unlikely to be possible at all)

However, it just might be possible for a "basic" efi car like a G16 or H20 to improve economy on higher octane fuel, if the car was running a bit rich at cruise, the higher octane fuel might have the effect of leaning it out a bit, due to what the O2 sensor is seeing. This is only at cruise though, and I'm not at all convinced. Basically, IMHO, dyno time and manual advancement of static timing would be required to see a noticeable improvement in a car that lacks a knock sensor.

In relation to dhglory, This isn't for his trolling benefit, it's here for the information of those who are actually interested.

I'm not claiming that his car can't run "differently" swapping between, say, 91 octane (which Mr glory either has or hasn't tried, depending on his mood) the issue I have is that

dhglory wrote:

I usually stay well away from ethanol but I just had to try it and you surely feel that extra kick !!.

Because that's bollocks. 100% ethanol has an octane of 108.6, and is being used to up some blend of fossil fuel base stock up to 100 RON. However, to liberate any extra power, it has be injected in larger quantities, because Ethanol isn't as thermally efficient as petrol.

Here's the data:

Stoich for petrol: 14.7:1
Stoich for 100% ethanol: 9:1

So, to achieve peak efficiency with an ethanol blend fuel, you have to burn more of it. Cars running E85 generally consume about 20% more fuel under the same conditions than cars running petrol.

Here's the catch though.

The car has to know what you've put in it. Modern EFI computers use the knock sensor and very detailed information from wideband O2 sensors to work out exactly what blend of fuel is in the car, so in the case of a new commodore, you can throw 100% fossil fuel in one tank and E85 in the next and it sorts it out. A vitara doesn't know that. It can only tune the fuelling based on air temperature under anyhting except cruise, where it will look at the O2 sensor to (slightly) adjust fuelling, at under 80% throttle, when the engine is up to temperature, etcetc.

However, because the vitara only looks for an air fuel ratio target based on petrol, not an ethanol blend, the target number is too lean for an ethanol blend.

So, the message is always the same - use of a higher than recommended octane fuel is a waste and will not result in an improvement in your cars performance or economy.

In any car I've owned that could detect the octane and blend of the fuel that as in it, my economy data bears this out - the car was cheaper to run on 98 fuel due to improved economy. Switching to 100 octane with ethanol saw the economy measurably eroded.

Steve.