[Zook_Fan]

In a few competitions that are popping up the rule books state that original manufactured seats will not be acceptable for use in competition. We know most Suzuki seats are less than ideal anyway but which seat do you choose?

I've been doing fairly extensive reading on the subject and it mostly comes down to two different options for me, either the Mastercraft suspension seat or a Sparco/Cobra/Recaro fixed back tub seat. Mastercraft is the only company producing suspension seats that seems to be actively testing their seats and complying with FIA approvals, so to me they are a more developed company than PRP, Twisted Stitch, etc.

The point of this discussion is which is more suited to what we do here in Australia. There's a lot of debate in US forums saying that the suspension seats are not as safe as a fixed seat as during an impact the seat absorbs the occupant but this causes the harnesses to be loose and you lose the optimal spine position you were set in. There is extensive history of back problems while being in a suspension seat and not much at all in a proper "high end" tub seat.

The back problems are normally caused from G outs, from hitting the frame on the ground or bottoming your suspension hard. The tub seats hold your spine and body firmly, and you're not moving as much in an accident. Of course they are generally harder to get in and out of than a suspension seat that has a fairly flat base.

I figure that Australian 4x4 comps at the moment are closer to a rough rally event, in which everyone runs tub seats but perhaps I'm missing perspective? What's everyone's opinion on this?

A straight rockcrawling event I think I'd choose suspension but I noticed from TT photo's even there some people choose an aluminium seat.

I don't really want budget to be a part of this discussion, after a significant roll over walking away unscathed is worth the difference from a $300 seat to a $1000 seat. If you think it's not have a look at what a broken back will cost you.

[tanshi]

after the weekend i can happily say our SAAS fixed back seats are awesome.

Some BIG hits, near roll overs, jumps with no rear shocks at 110km/h +
We paid $300 for the pair second hand and couldnt fault them.

For rock crawling your not in a seat long enough to justify suspension seats. nice snug fixed ones that dont alloy you to move far are best

[Zook_Fan]

If the comp was different and your navi had to get out regularly and strap back in would it still be a good seat? It's good to hear that it holds you well but is getting in and out and strapping in time quick?

Don't know if you've read this before but it would stop me using a plastic or alloy seat: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general- ... -them.html

Not that yours are, I'm interested that you find the tubular framed SAAS seats good. I was told by a Sparco rep that the steel framed seats would not last in this application, regardless of who made them.

[tanshi]

As we are running in aust4 we will probably find outselves getting out to winch at some point.

we are racing on the weekend and both having a turn at driving thus we were having quick driver changes.

We were taking less time to change over than another tean in a sierra with GTI seats.

I dont know how they will last but they seem to be up to the task at the moment

[SierraDan]

I couldn't go back from a suspension seat. Super comfy and cant say I've encountered harness issues.
We drive socially more than competitively so comfort is a factor.

I would say most not all alloy/plastic seats that were at TT are used as a result of space than preference. I know of a few that are chosen this way.

[Zook_Fan]

From what I've seen you guys do a lot of crawling, do you venture into speed at all socially?

The issue with harnesses seems to be isolated to high speed driving.

Yeah I guessed that the alloy seats particularly were chosen because of packaging.

[SierraDan]

We hit jumps and dirt tracks at speed yeah. Hence a fair bit of up travel on a few rigs.

[Zook_Fan]

Any particular seat stand out from the rest? PRP, Twisted Stitch, Mastercraft, etc?

[SierraDan]

The car i ride in has Beard seats, I've sat in Twisted Stitch and Corbeau. They all seem pretty well same same.

[SierraDan]

Those plastic seats are by far the worst thing since the Proclaimer.

[Zook_Fan]

Thanks for that Dan. When you say a suspension seat is more comfortable how do you mean? Moveability, softness, space, other?

I honestly have never sat in one but I've sat in plenty of decent tub seats. I always felt comfortable in a reasonably constrictive seat but that's not as good when your offroad.

[SierraDan]

They hold you in, but don't restrict like the SAAS style seats. They are nice and deep. Soft padding. I guess the suspension in a landing helps with the lack of sore arse/back. Easy to climb in and out of. And if you need to stick your head out of the car for a look, unclip the sternum buckle on the harness and its no hassle to move around in it.

Entirely my own findings though and based on TT style rigs and sensible seat angle. IM going to have one in my crawler soon, which may have a different angle on the seat which might change my opinion and upset me

[Zook_Fan]

Off topic but there is a build thread for that crawler coming?

What height are you and how is the harness angle over your shoulders to the holes in the seat? Tanshi, could you give an indication of this too? Most seats seem to be way too short for me going by the measurements on the manufacturers sites.

[SierraDan]

IM 6'5". Harnesses are level with my shoulders and don't go through the seat.

[tanshi]

im 6'4, my sparco pro 2000s are4 way too short. harness holes sit about 4 inches below my shoulders

my saas buckets are up level with my shoulders, its one of the reasons i bought them

[Zook_Fan]

I was looking at the pro 2000's because of the seat height so that's good information. Thanks to both of you.

[tanshi]

No prob. I may not even be able to use my pro2000s cos they are so low so if I can save some one some money all good

[dank]

there was a recent accident at an event in Victoria where a guy in an 80 series V8 huge power mud racer hit a big jump and topped out on tabletop landing on his front diff totalling the front end. Aanyway the point is. he was sitting in a hard plastic race seat and he broke his back from the impact. he was ok, he can walk now i saw him on saturday, but it was a big wake up call for him he is now looking into better seat options.

[Zook_Fan]

It's those stories that prompted all the research in the first place. I don't think it matters what kind of a budget you're on, if you're going to race you should be prepared to spend the money on safety equipment. Helmet, harness, neck brace, seat and cage. They all go together.

What do you run in the XJ Dan?

[Parry]

After going in a few different seats in crawlers I made the choise of a beard suspension seats, a day in a rig with plastic seats I was sore, you feel every little bump n bang through the whole body, after tt in my beards I wa fine and they are so comfy, can't comment on how they would be at high speed crashes, maybe look on off road racing forums as they use them a lot more for high speeds.

[Zook_Fan]

Yeah I've done that. Rally use a tub seat. Going over relatively smooth terrain but they do bottom out their suspension hard through washouts that they miss. I've never been sore after a day in a rally car with a nice contained seat.

The majority of trophy trucks use a tub seat and some Class 1 cars. The drivers say it is more comfortable and you drive better. There is a lot of broken back stories in suspension seats in TT's.

Lower class offroad racing cars are mostly in suspension seats. They are going a lot faster than I ever will but they claim it helps due to the lack of suspension travel due to class regs.

Either or don't really seem to be extremely relevant to the type of racing in Queensland. In fact I think we are closer to rally than desert racing, most of the time we are working within the constraints of the suspension system of the car, when we bottom out it is because the suspension has bottomed out. For rock crawling I agree a suspension seat is definitely the answer, and can understand that limited suspension offroad classes would feel the same.

The difference is the speed and fashion that the car bottoms out. When you drop onto a rock and it hits the chassis you will feel all of the force. If you are driving and your chassis bottoms out, you will feel all of the force. But if you are driving, hit a washout and your suspension bottoms out, including 4 tuned dampeners and 4 additional air dampeners for compression (air bump stops), then the acceleration is already significantly reduced before the driver experiences the opposing force through their body. Adding an extra spring and dampener will extend the duration your body is experiencing a force but it will lower the actual force felt. In the case of offroad racing we don't just feel one force, there is a chance of hitting another bump while the seat is still compressed from the first. In this case you will feel all the force just like a tub seat however you are no longer held in place correctly because your harness will be loose due to the displacement of your body through the seat spring compression.

If you follow all that, I'd like to know if my theories are correct or not.