[atari4x4]

wouldn't he need a 6 puck clutch before stepping up to an all terrain going by your experiences offroad?

[Sco-tie]

Kumho make the KL71, BFG are KM2...Very different tyre Especially with one being directional.

[atari4x4]

and one being pretty average at best...

[Chop]

GeckoXL7 wrote:

The general grabber is as agresive AT tire you can get

[atari4x4]

[magnat]

The biggest problem is tyre sizes.
The XL-7 comes out with a ridiculous 235/60/R16 which in this size they only make HT tread, and only BFG make an All-terrain but its bleeding expensive.. No mud terrain at all.
The next size up is 215/70/R16 and a few companies make All-terrains in this size.. Which is why I went for them. So once again BFG, Cooper, And Falken as well as Bridgestones dessert dueller which is more of an aggressive HT then an all-terrain...
Still, No one makes a Mud terrain in any size under 29 inch.

If someone made a cheap 235/60/R16 Mud Terrain then you could shod your Early model RAV4 with some decent tread but I still could not find a single maker that made this size.

So yeah its the reason why I had to go all terrain because at the time a Mud terrain was not made in the correct tyre profile..
Which is why I am asking now how BIG can I legally go and still keep the damned thing comprehensively insured.

Oh and you cannot fit a 15 inch rim on the XL-7 due to the front calipers being too large and shimming the brake calipers is not something I want to be messing with.

Oh and if there is a More aggressive AT then the General Grabber AT2 then I would like to see it as so far, its looking like the best All-terrain grip I have seen so far..
The BFG T/A KO doesn't look as aggressive as the Grabber.

[henno]

magnat wrote:

Oh and if there is a More aggressive AT then the General Grabber AT2 then I would like to see it

Duratrac... by a country mile.

[magnat]

henno, They are not made in the correct size sadly..

I just looked them up and the closest they make is a 235/75/R16..

[GeckoXL7]

There needs to be a xl7 only forrum started

I was meaning the gt grabber at2 is prob the most aggressive we can get legally. It only gets more aggressive when go to a 225 75 profile or closer to the 30 inch size. 225 75 is just over at 56mm.

I had bridgestones at the d697 massive improvemen over older ones but are in the mid 200s okiesh on sand but not as good as Pirelli s same with mud. Only place they shined was steep roccky terrain. Good for sa and the flinders ranges but eastern states not that good in the mud.

The Pirelli may not look aggressive but did go pretty well in mud and anywhere else, the tires did not turn in to slicks cleaned them selves well

Apart from General grabbers look at maxxis.

The gts at2 go really well on the bitumen, won't see what there really like off-road untill the trans is in next weekend.

[Gwagensteve]

The #1 way to make any car "a little bit better" offroad is let the tyres down more.

Beyond that it's lockers and gearing, if you're locked into a particular tyre size.

Comparing tiny road tyres for which one will be the best offroad performance is like comparing which tennis racquet will make the best paddle.

[GeckoXL7]

True, but on a 27" letting your tyres down also means getting less clearance, but also means if you will get up that long steep sand dune or not.

Standard size for alot of 4x4s are 29" but a majority are running 31" the difference of going to a 29" for a XL-7 is you will be draging your diff through 1" of mud or sand compared to 3" on a 27" wheel.

I did pretty well on the 27"s but where i had trouble is when a whole heap of 4x4s in front of me made deep ruts.

On rocky tracks the difference was a matter of getting a rock stuck under the car or not, but you can always choose your path and get most places.

A XL-7 deff needs at least 2" suspension increase for its ramp over clearance, but that extra 1" on tire size going to a 235 70 gives that extra little ramp over, keeps the brakes out the mud a bit more and better clearance for the rear axle and diff, so you wont struggle as much if stuck behind other 4x4s with their aggressive rut creating mud tires.

Ive been in deep watery slippery mud half way up the pirelli ATR 235 75 R16 wheels and at times to the bottom door seals with out issues, only issues i had was the brakes kept getting mud in them and squeeled or grinded away. I was supprised how well it went and everyone said i would need recovering alot, but the one that did need recovering was a Datson Patrol with muddies. I stoped in the deep mud and took off pretty easily while others where fish tailing all over the place. Pretty much the day i realised the XL-7 is a decent 4x4 and at the end of the night on way home i was at the front of the group.



Difference between the Original Standard not used crappy no traction HT Bridgestone D687 and the General Grabber AT2, would of been good if could compare to the D697 A/T

[murcod]

magnat wrote:

The biggest problem is tyre sizes.
The XL-7 comes out with a ridiculous 235/60/R16 which in this size they only make HT tread, and only BFG make an All-terrain but its bleeding expensive.. No mud terrain at all.

You can get a few different A/T tyres in 235/60R16, you're not limited to just H/T.

Three that come straight to mind are:
http://www.yokohama.com.au/Tyres/Geolan ... .aspx?pg=2
http://www.dunloptyres.com.au/dotCMS/Ty ... code=00574
https://www.bridgestonetyres.com.au/dueler-at-d697

Mud terrain of course is a different matter.

[GeckoXL7]

Had yokos, decent Offroad but didnt last long at all, 20,000ls main issue was major wearing on outer edge's
Bridgestone D697 is about the best you can get in the standard size, it would of lasted around 70,000k went most places but i couldnt attempt some places in the Otways due to size and traction in deep mud. They like colecting stones too and cake up real quick in mud.

More pics of the GT AT2 For tread and clearnaces.

Front Clearance usually where it rubs is on the bottom plastic edge where the front mud gard usually is when turning, but you can push it back for clearance. Second place is on the Chassy rails, no real issue but is noticalbe with the tread. Can correct with castor bushes or if want bump stops on steering arms but that would restrict the turning circle a bit.



rear is fine but had to change mud flaps



They have side biters.



They also have snow stud holes if ever want to head in the snow. These are a Mud and Snow Rated tire.



Fits nicely on the rear.

[atari4x4]

GeckoXL7 wrote:

There needs to be a xl7 only forrum started .

http://www.4wdaction.com.au/forum/viewf ... 8698fea8a5

say hi to grimbo for me.

[GeckoXL7]

Yeah i know about that, more GV owners posting on it than XL-7 Has a few cobwebs on it now as no one goes there.
Mucrod and me are on a few sites, i only know of 6 XL-7s that actualy do some decent offroading. 2 of them in adl are rough bush bashers from what i am told with 31 or 32" muddies and steel wheels where they shimmed the brakes. More are apearing, had a note left on my windy asking about suspension from another XL-7 driver but couldnt read the number as rained. And another with Dual exhast out the back. The others shake there heads when see mine with the snorkel and mud on it. The school runnners, might as well get a tarago.

I got the XL-7 Near new in 2006 with only a few thousand k's on it for work, then play and now more a bus. Most of us have kids so need a good ballance of praticality and been able to have some fun offroad.

[murcod]

GeckoXL7 wrote:

Had yokos, decent Offroad but didnt last long at all, 20,000ls main issue was major wearing on outer edge's

Was that with raised/ modified suspension? I've got them on mine, they've done 28000km and would be under half worn- I'm actually amazed how well they're lasting. They're wearing evenly and it hasn't had an alignment since they were fitted.

The funny bit is they're a lot better on road than most of the H/T tyres we've had - for ride comfort, noise and dry/ wet weather grip. The side walls are a bit softer than the last H/T, but the reduction in road noise and not feeling every little bump on the road is worth it.

[murcod]

GeckoXL7 wrote:

The school runnners, might as well get a tarago.

Well, apparently the XL-7 is more suited to that purpose - hence why you're having to mod and the problems trying to find parts!

[atari4x4]

^^^ this guy... teh old silk purse out of a sow's ear.

[GeckoXL7]

Thats with the Dobinson suspension at the time.

Usually what happens the Toe will be out after every trip and the soft compound on the yokos got chewed up real quick.

They where a great tire, esp on the beach, couldnt fault them but just didnt last for me maybe they changed the compound over the years i had them back in 2007 when i almost lost control on the crap bridgestones h/t's on wet road, only done around 16,000 ks on them still looked kinda new. Then got the pirellis they lasted 90,000 and still prob could of scraped 10,000 more i can see why they won 4x4 tire of the year for a long time. Had to go back standard cause of the dumb rules so got bridgestones which where decent done around 65,000ks on them sitll had tread left before needing to replace but just wernt good offroad anymore so, did stacks of research in tire sizes and whats available along with rims etc, was going to get maxxis as thought Generals would be expensive but was told there actually cheaper so ended up with them. Got something like a 80,000 k warranty on them ment to last 100,000k's.

[Marko_SJ]

I bought my sierra with 126, 000 on the clock. Put a set of cheng shins on immediately after.

They look like they'll do that distance again easy.

[murcod]

GeckoXL7 wrote:

...when i almost lost control on the crap bridgestones h/t's on wet road, only done around 16,000 ks on them still looked kinda new.

D687's..... Weren't they shocking tyres? Lethal in the wet, hard riding and they didn't like the idea of anything but driving in a straight line. They got sent to an early grave here too.

My Yoko's are from Tire Rack, I don't know if that makes any difference?

[GeckoXL7]

Not sure but tire compounds have changed and advanced over the years, eg Silica, small cuts and groves in the treed etc etc.

Because of the D687 i didnt want the D697 but they ended up being pretty good on wet roads.

What i remember about the D687s most is in winter clouds of smoke at the trafic lights on corner of taplys hill road and warren avenue trying to gain traction when the lights turned green. Pure embarressment while i gather some p platers would of been proud going around round abouts was scarry too.

[Abraxix]

i'm not here to yay or nay say - cuz i'm out for this info and exp my self.
Stella only has ODA underbody bash plates, roof racks with an Awning and a SCA numberplate bar with LED bar fitted to it.

i recently purchased some Spring Spacers for my XL-7 hopefully this will bring my stock suspenssion to a standard height again (after suspension sagging) of 10 years lol it's a 10 year old rig "standard" yay...
so i will be looking for some 27"s again my plan was buy the 2" lift and then fit some 29's but now my rear two tires that do get rotated every service are wearing out (some cheap no name brand i've never heard of)
i'll be looking at 27's again darn it...

otherwise if it all went my way i'd really like the idea of going the hancock M/T's on her cuz i think they look like a really long wearing style of MT tread seems "close" together enough to be considered more like an A/T than a Mud.. that's my thoughts. and Gecko... did you fit that 29" on the barn door with no other modifications ??

[GeckoXL7]

Yep fitted nicely with still room to spare. I had 235 75 R16's and fitted but thats pretty close to the limit of just a liffted XL-7.

We could go larger if could find rims with a negative offset. They are available just expensive.

[Abraxix]

2" lift got you the 29.9"s in a 235/75-16 ?

[GeckoXL7]

Yep, Rubed though on the Chassy rails a fair bit and they where not agressive so when did rub it wasnt to bad.

Its also very close to rubbing the wheel arch while turning, my GTS hit it now but thats because its been pushed forward on the drivers side for some reason, i have to unclip it and push it back.

[henno]

That is why 225/75 is a more popular size. Mine actually measure at pretty much 30" anyway but don't rub anywhere (after bending that little tab for the front bumper bit of course).

No chassis scrub whatsoever, stock mudflaps are fine.... just.

[magnat]

But isn't a 225/75 a Higher profile then a 235/70 ?
All I am after is getting a decent set of tyres under it that wont break the bank but still give that added diff lift.

[Joe]

Abraxix wrote:

and Gecko... did you fit that 29" on the barn door with no other modifications ??

You can fit a 255/70r16 or a 245/75r16 on a stock rim on the rear door with no mods

[henno]

magnat wrote:

But isn't a 225/75 a Higher profile then a 235/70.

Both of them were referring to 235/75 ⇩⇩⇩

GeckoXL7 wrote:

I had 235 75 R16's and fitted

Abraxix wrote:

2" lift got you the 29.9"s in a 235/75-16 ?

GeckoXL7 wrote:

Yep, Rubed though on the Chassy rails a fair bit