[jonga]

definitely keen

[v.w.dave]

zookernator wrote:

lump_a_charcoal wrote:

Group buy?

x2

X3 I am keen if the price is right....

[Rockhopper]

SSS in Giraween lump???

[Brett]

superchargers are great down low.. but if its sized wrong( to small) it will run out of puff very quick. they (roots or screw) pump out a set amount of air for each turn so going a small won wont be any good. it also takes power to turn a supercharger about 10,20% of your engine power.

get the right size one and you will be happy as a pig in mud

[SuziBlu]

Brett wrote:

superchargers are great down low.. but if its sized wrong( to small) it will run out of puff very quick. they (roots or screw) pump out a set amount of air for each turn so going a small won wont be any good. it also takes power to turn a supercharger about 10,20% of your engine power.

get the right size one and you will be happy as a pig in mud

This applies to turbos as well, sizing is important.

You nothing for nothing, turbos are spoken about as being free power, that is a perpetual motion machine. Does not happen.

With todays advances in friction reduction, and quality, superchargers get well down in the single digit power drain, 5%

When you consider the immense torque gains, basically from ignition, a supercharger is eminatly suited to 4wds, .

[want33s]

v.w.dave wrote:

zookernator wrote:

lump_a_charcoal wrote:

Group buy?

x2

X3 I am keen if the price is right....

X4.. Would like to mount a little blower between the two halves of the 16V plenum.

[303zuke]

Camden no longer make the kit for the Sierra and Vit. Camden is still in business, but their S/c's are now belt or gear driven "Turbo" housings like Paxton or Vortech. This style of S/c is not a positive displacement and only really works at higher rpm. At lower revs, air can leak past the vanes in the impeller and they don't make much boost. Really for theFalcon and Commo crowd, not 4wd's.

B&M have gone out of business and were bought out by Holley. Their range of S/c's are now sold as Holley Procharger, but they have deleted the small 72 cubic inch one I pictured before. The smallest available is a 144, which is good for a V8 of about 4.0lt upwards. Your only hope of finding a 72ci B&M now is 2nd hand through E-bay, etc. The one I showed sold on US e-bay last year, I was outbid and it sold for US$450.

As the Nose, front plate and rear plate are identical to the 144 B&M aka Procharger), I wonder if we could persuade Holley to make a small run of centre housings and rotors in the 72 ci size? While the Dollar's hot? I'll send them an e-mail and see.

[31zook]

have they gotten back yet?

[303zuke]

Nothing yet from Holley on the B&M.

But Camden's Home Page says they are putting the finishing touches to the "New" Suzuki Samurai kit which is priced at US$2495. Who's still interested? Who's still concious and breathing?

[Damo]

My Eaton M45 cost me $300.

I wonder what else is in the B&M kit?

[Ben_Sierra]

303zuke wrote:

Nothing yet from Holley on the B&M.

But Camden's Home Page says they are putting the finishing touches to the "New" Suzuki Samurai kit which is priced at US$2495. Who's still interested? Who's still concious and breathing?

It mentions Samurai once, but everything else is all RX-7... its very strange...

[lordviper556]

i have been thinking about putting an sc12 supercharger off a corolla on my jimny. havent looked into enough specs and stuff as yet tho. should be pretty straight forward if they spec right, just need some piping and a bracket. hardest part i can see is mounting it and getting a belt off the crank. will do more reserch when i got some $$

[losfer]

i have some parts laying around to supercharge a f10a if anyone is interested.

most people look at supercharging as just a bolt on mod , i assure you it isnt . if you are willing to spend a few grand (and then a bit more) you can setup a nice reliable system , otherwise stop reading this thread now.

i have and can make custom supercharger crank pulleys from machine grade aluminium (2011) , but you looking up near the $500 mark by the time they are finished...

[bogfrog]

losfer wrote:

i have some parts laying around to supercharge a f10a if anyone is interested.

How much you chasing for this and is it a complete set up? Cheers Robb.

[303zuke]

31zook wrote:

have they gotten back yet?

Holley's website says they try to answer most queries within 48 hours. I was encouraged by the amount of time they took to reply, because I thought they were seriously looking the practicalities of my question.

Here is my Q:
"Your question was:
I am inquiring as to the availbility of a supercharger made by B&M. I understand that Holley have bought the line of B&M superchargers and now sell them under the Procharger line. The smallest model you list is the 144, but B&M made a smaller one for 4cyl Import applications, I think it was a 68 ci or 72ci model. It shared the same rear plate, front plate and nose of the 144, but had a shorter length body and rotor vanes. Is this model available through Holley? There are several members of our 4wd club who are interested in purchasing this model, and if it is no longer a catalog item, can it be produced as a special run order? I have photos of the original B&M unit, but no measurements.
Thank you"

And the response that took them over a week to formulate is:
"Sorry, This item was obsolete before Holley purchased the B&M SC line. Do not have any parts.

WW"

I really don't think they read my question. F*****rs!

[Spool]

I know this isn't the newest thread kicking around, but I'm suprised more hasn't been said about the SC12 and SC14 superchargers like lordviper mentioned earlier - Sc12 off the 4AGZE's and the Sc14 off the 1GGZE. Much closer in original engine capacity then a K-car charger and the same price from SSS (well it used to be, not sure these days) which makes it well cheaper then any aftermarket options. Replacement bearings are well documented in case you ever need to rebuild it and conversions on many motors (including twin SC14's on a 250 crossflow) have been done before. If I was going to go for low rpm response on a G13 an SC12 would be the first place I'd look, and a SC14 on a G16 or larger.

Just my 2c.

[Hybrid]

I've got a sc12 ready for my g16a sitting on the bench at home. At this rate damo aint going to get my custom efi manifold sorted though so it probably wont happen at this rate. From the calcs I did though the sc12 flows spot on for the 1.6l to get 7-9psi with the stock SC pulley. As a result i think the sc14 would be to big. I've got the full excell calcs in the office if anyone is interested. The best thing is the g16a 8 valve runs low compression so theres no need for head mods, gasket spacers or intercooling to minimize detonation.

[SuziBlu]

Please pm me the spread sheet.

[Damo]

Hybrid wrote:

I've got a sc12 ready for my g16a sitting on the bench at home. At this rate damo aint going to get my custom efi manifold sorted though so it probably wont happen at this rate. From the calcs I did though the sc12 flows spot on for the 1.6l to get 7-9psi with the stock SC pulley. As a result i think the sc14 would be to big. I've got the full excell calcs in the office if anyone is interested. The best thing is the g16a 8 valve runs low compression so theres no need for head mods, gasket spacers or intercooling to minimize detonation.

Have you figured out how to mount it yet?

[JrZook]

Damo wrote:

Hybrid wrote:

I've got a sc12 ready for my g16a sitting on the bench at home. At this rate damo aint going to get my custom efi manifold sorted though so it probably wont happen at this rate. From the calcs I did though the sc12 flows spot on for the 1.6l to get 7-9psi with the stock SC pulley. As a result i think the sc14 would be to big. I've got the full excell calcs in the office if anyone is interested. The best thing is the g16a 8 valve runs low compression so theres no need for head mods, gasket spacers or intercooling to minimize detonation.

Have you figured out how to mount it yet?

Just weld it

[Hybrid]

SuziBlu wrote:

Please pm me the spread sheet.

PM Sent mate.

[Hybrid]

Damo wrote:

Hybrid wrote:

I've got a sc12 ready for my g16a sitting on the bench at home. At this rate damo aint going to get my custom efi manifold sorted though so it probably wont happen at this rate. From the calcs I did though the sc12 flows spot on for the 1.6l to get 7-9psi with the stock SC pulley. As a result i think the sc14 would be to big. I've got the full excell calcs in the office if anyone is interested. The best thing is the g16a 8 valve runs low compression so theres no need for head mods, gasket spacers or intercooling to minimize detonation.

Have you figured out how to mount it yet?

I replied but no post so heres the sumarised version
-Mount above the extractors on a bracket
-Run it off the crank pulley that is currently running the powersteering
-Concerned about pulley contact so going to probably incorporate a tensioner pulley on the mount bracket
- Tossing up whether to hollow out the old TBI throttle body or run a remote throttle body and use your fancy tig to make up an inlet to the MPFI manifold.

[Damo]

Hybrid wrote:

Damo wrote:

Hybrid wrote:

I've got a sc12 ready for my g16a sitting on the bench at home. At this rate damo aint going to get my custom efi manifold sorted though so it probably wont happen at this rate. From the calcs I did though the sc12 flows spot on for the 1.6l to get 7-9psi with the stock SC pulley. As a result i think the sc14 would be to big. I've got the full excell calcs in the office if anyone is interested. The best thing is the g16a 8 valve runs low compression so theres no need for head mods, gasket spacers or intercooling to minimize detonation.

Have you figured out how to mount it yet?

I replied but no post so heres the sumarised version
-Mount above the extractors on a bracket
-Run it off the crank pulley that is currently running the powersteering
-Concerned about pulley contact so going to probably incorporate a tensioner pulley on the mount bracket
- Tossing up whether to hollow out the old TBI throttle body or run a remote throttle body and use your fancy tig to make up an inlet to the MPFI manifold.

Keep it simple for starters I reckon. Get the charger mounted and use the old throttle body to get it working. If you want to get fancy later leave it til after you get it running.

I should have a clamp kit and some end mills being delivered today (or in the next few days at the latest). I should be able to get a start on it this week.

[Spool]

Hybrid wrote:

I've got a sc12 ready for my g16a sitting on the bench at home. At this rate damo aint going to get my custom efi manifold sorted though so it probably wont happen at this rate. From the calcs I did though the sc12 flows spot on for the 1.6l to get 7-9psi with the stock SC pulley. As a result i think the sc14 would be to big. I've got the full excell calcs in the office if anyone is interested. The best thing is the g16a 8 valve runs low compression so theres no need for head mods, gasket spacers or intercooling to minimize detonation.

Hehe, just me being a cheap boost junky I think - you know you want a BIG pulley and a SC14........and maybe 2 headgaskets and a monster spacer plate!

X2 with the old TB setup, just get it going - too many things to change means too many things to track down when it all goes to poo.


Oh, another thing with superchargers, you prob know but pulley position in relation the the crank is a kinda big thing otherwise you'll throw belts every few k down the road. Maybe see if you can make some longitudinal as well as lateral adjustment when mounting. (Like part of an old PS bracket or something longways in the engine bay.)

[31zook]

damo, i skim read what you wrote, but in short your sticking a charger on your 1600?

[Damo]

31zook wrote:

damo, i skim read what you wrote, but in short your sticking a charger on your 1600?

Nah I am helping Hybird strap one to the side of his

I do have one for mine but it's different and a long term project for a different motor.

[BUZOOKA]

i always thought that superchargers and turbos were designed to give u better top end



if true why do u want to do that to a car that u want better bottom end in ???

im just curious is all so i dont really need a comment back calling me stupid

cheerz zooka

[Fatzook]

BUZOOKA wrote:

i always thought that superchargers and turbos were designed to give u better top end



if true why do u want to do that to a car that u want better bottom end in ???

im just curious is all so i dont really need a comment back calling me stupid

cheerz zooka

You can get both turbo and supercharger to improve bottom end. Its all in the turbo/ charger sizing.

Ie. A small turbo will spool very early giving boost off idle. But it will run out of puff as the rpm get higher. Same with s-charger.

Peter

[Hybrid]

Damo wrote:

31zook wrote:

damo, i skim read what you wrote, but in short your sticking a charger on your 1600?

Nah I am helping Hybird strap one to the side of his

I do have one for mine but it's different and a long term project for a different motor.

Someone's keeping their cards close to their chest! I know what Damo's plans are.....whatever will keep his zook in the shed until the government says he's too old to drive

For the sake of discussion I've done the calcs on the sc12 and sc14 on a g13 and g16. for simplicity I'm just working off 1300cc and 1600 cc for the engines though I know thats not exact. Also I've allowed the following.
SC12 flows 1200cc per rev
SC14 flows 1400cc per rev
SC pulley diameter of 125mm for both (only diff being early SC12s ran a 120mm)
Aimed for 8PSI
Base atmospheric pressure at 14.7psi

G16
SC12 requires a pulley ratio of 1.03 = crank pulley approx 130mm
SC14 requires a pulley ratio of 0.84 = crank pulley approx 105mm

G13
SC12 requires a pulley ratio of 0.79 = crank pulley approx 100mm
SC14 requires a pulley ratio of 0.68 = crank pulley approx 85mm

I'm not sure what the stock crank for a g13 is but I think the g16 is around 120mm. The GTI I've been told is a 125mm which is what I will try to source for mine.

As there isn't much option for changes to crank pulley sizes it comes down to charger pulleys. But since aftermarket charger pulley sizes are made to overdrive not underdrive sc14's aren't really feasible. Even with the SC12 on a g13 running a stock crank at 120mm you'd be getting 11.5psi. No way would I put that through a stock G13. Does anyone know what the little AMR chargers flow. I could put that into my spread sheet and see what comes up.

DISCLAIMER: THESE RESULTS ARE ALL BASED ON BASIC CALCS BASED ON ENGINE CAPACITY AIR DRAW AT CERTAIN RPM ETC. I PICKED THESE UP FROM RESEARCH I DID WHEN I NEEDED A BASELINE STARTING POINT FOR CHARGER AND PULLEY SIZES. THEY DON'T INCLUDE FOR AIR FLOW EFFICIENCIES, TEMPERATURE BLAH BLAH BLAH. BASICALLY DONT FULLY RELY ON THEM.

[royce]

what do these things start doing to the air temps once you start spinning them fast?

its alsways been my understanding (based on info from people that know stuff) that its not always the pressure that kills but the airtemp, IE 12psi going in at 40deg is going to be a lot softer than 12psi at 100deg, likewise decent tuning and fuel supply of course are going to help it all live longer