[zookernator]

sweet.. got some good ideas off that link also, tar At this stage im only doing the rear.. the front is nice and soft, and flexes really good. I will coil the front later down the track though, but due to time etc, im only doing the rear at the moment. What control arms are you using? Ive got onto some GQ control arms/panhard rods.. heres the measurements
front panhard = 85cm
rear panhard = 96cm
upper arms = 40cm
lower arms = 67cm

I should be able to use longer control arms.. should i be doing this? Everyone says to keep the control arms as flat, and as long as possible.. so perhaps i should look for longer control arms? Think 80 series are longer arent they?

[Ridge]

i was just going to use the standard bundy radial arms on the front, would be easier to set up then links for me any way. on the rear i was planing on the radial arms but now im thinking of a 4 link As long and as flat as possible seems to be the way to go for the control arms. I have to do some more research on it and play with one of the link calculators, it is new to me too.

[Ridge]

i found this really good "how to" write up on a 4 link. http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/techarticl ... index.html
could be doing this soon

[zookernator]

sweet.. thanks buddy!! Love ya work!!!!!!!! Will have a good read of that later tonight

[zookernator]

joeblow wrote:

Joe: WIth the control arms mounted the way they are in these pics, was there much rear steer? And did they also work well while articulating? It looks like a bloody solid/strong design.. just curious if the end result was as good as it looks in these pics!!

[31zook]

that's a tri four link, and going by joe's rep it would have the least amount of rear steer of any 4link out...

[zookernator]

31zook wrote:

that's a tri four link, and going by joe's rep it would have the least amount of rear steer of any 4link out...

here here!! I definatly wasnt questioning his work!! Just curious as to how it all worked out. Joe: Do you use the 4 link calculator to work out the best mounting points etc for the control arms?

[joeblow]

will post some info tonight.

[zookernator]

Woo hoo!! Just picked up a pair of 180sx coils! Not many more bits left to get now

[joeblow]

sorry ........been busy painting a lathe.


the above pics show a fully triangulated rear end. during cycling there is the same amount of axle movement forward and back as a traditional setup. you will get too much rear steer with lots of travel but too short arms.
the fully triangulated is best suited to a centre style diff, as its easier to work around. it also deletes the panhard rod as the arms all being triangulated keep the diff firmly centred. the reason i occasionaly do ass ends like this is that it lessens bush binding during suspension cycling, meaning bushes will last longer and help with travel, the lower arms will also come into contact less with ground obstacles during cycling too, which means you can generaly place larger obstacles in the path of the tyre.
this setup will do nothing for roll stiffness and that should be tuned into the suspension with springs or a sway bar. using the arms to give you roll stiffness is a cheap nasty way out of it and is generaly not good for chassis components and arms, might be fine in a stocker, but not something designed with travel or harsh conditions in mind.

what rate are the 180 coils? you might find (bet $10) that with a decent load of camping gear the won't handle the load and be a pig to drive. might be ok in a molested rear-chop shorty sierra, but with you're weight they may not cope.


and no, i don't use a calculator. i have been very fortunate to be tought by some awesome suspension engineers over the years and basicaly i setup coils and arms with adequate bush and mount cycling in mind. all the coils systems i do have the diffs welded in place at pre determined ride heights and then everything is made around it. once done its broken free from the chassis.

[zookernator]

Thanks again for the reply mate, it is greatfully appreciated!!

joeblow wrote:

the above pics show a fully triangulated rear end. you will get too much rear steer with lots of travel but too short arms.

the fully triangulated is best suited to a centre style diff, as its easier to work around.

If I went for a fully triangulated rear setup like the one pictured, do you think that the GQ control arms would be long enough to minimise rear steer, and provide adequete flex? Also, if i strengthened my housing (keeping in mind it is a bundy housing), and at the same time make a mounting point for the upper arms, in the centre of the housing.. similar to this high tech picture i made



Do you think this could all work? I hope you say yes, cause its looking very good inside my mind!!!

I can see what your saying about the 180 coils.. at this stage i think i will test them, whilst the vehicle is loaded, and unloaded. I have rancho 9000X shocks, hopefully they will help!! If not, it will be a pain in the arse, but most of the time the vehicle is un loaded anyways

[31zook]

As i have said before im not a link king or have ever done any link's myself, But i would advise you just buying thick wall tube or RHS (if your into booty fab) then making your own control arms. I would read up on all the 4 link information you can find, ask lotsa questions. From what I've seen you have asked lotsa questions and you seem to have read quiet a bit so what's stopping you? go nuts? yeah? If the 180's are not stiff enough try some vit front's or rears....

also yes the arms need to be centered but remember that it's only an axle housing and all steel you weld onto it is a lever and not engineered right might just tear holes in your housing. Read up on these couple of builds
http://www.zukikrawlers.com/showthread.php?t=12568
I only added his build because i like this build..lol
http://www.zukikrawlers.com/showthread.php?t=6628

[Ridge]

What would the effects be if you designed your link system on a 35" tyre and used it as a daily on 31s? Could there be a noticeable difference in how the car handles?

[zookernator]

Ridge wrote:

What would the effects be if you designed your link system on a 35" tyre and used it as a daily on 31s? Could there be a noticeable difference in how the car handles?

hehehe, theres noooo way my zook will ever be a daily driver!!!!

[Gwagensteve]

bron5on wrote:

There's a tassie guy on here who's brother is doing a coil setup. Did you see it? FCsomething. Has "Our shed" in the rigs section. Also saw lada coils in a sierra on hilux axels and 35s in 4wd custom a while back if it helps. Can't have too much information!

I have some Niva coils in the shed and they are nice and soft and have lots of travel in them but they are significantly larger diameter than vitara coil, meaning they are harder to mount.

Might be an option though, depending on setup.

Steve.

[Ridge]

zookernator wrote:

Ridge wrote:

What would the effects be if you designed your link system on a 35" tyre and used it as a daily on 31s? Could there be a noticeable difference in how the car handles?

hehehe, theres noooo way my zook will ever be a daily driver!!!!

was thinking more for me. i can get my ute engineered on 31s

[Fatzook]

31zook wrote:

As i have said before im not a link king or have ever done any link's myself, But i would advise you just buying thick wall tube or RHS (if your into booty fab) then making your own control arms.

And I would advise the complete opposite!

Telling people to make their own arms is a terrible idea. Most people won't have the knowlege and know-how to manufacture their own trailing arms. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for people 'having a go', but things like trailing arms and panhards should be left to the joes of the world, or other suitably qualified persons.

My advise... If you cannot find an OEM trailing arm thats suits your needs, either make a compromise and use shorter arms along with their inherent floors, or get some professionally made.

JMO
Pete

[zookernator]

Gwagen: thanks mate, will keep it in mind.
Fatzook: I've gotta agree with you to, im definatly not keen on "giving it a go".. not when there is sooo much pressure on them (and the mounts etc). Will be using GQ uppers, and not sure about the lowers yet.. i am going to the wreckers t'row with a measuring tape and a grinder hehe

[Fatzook]

zookernator wrote:

Gwagen: thanks mate, will keep it in mind.
Fatzook: I've gotta agree with you to, im definatly not keen on "giving it a go".. not when there is sooo much pressure on them (and the mounts etc). Will be using GQ uppers, and not sure about the lowers yet.. i am going to the wreckers t'row with a measuring tape and a grinder hehe

I used toyota surf rear lowers and GQ uppers on mine. The surf lowers locate in the fixed spring hanger and depending on how you mount it at the diff, you can keep stock position if you like. I moved my rear back 40mm. I found that the arms sat alot flatter when the diff was moved back 40mm.

And the arms being a similar length does alow for a quite controllable rear end.

I have not done the front end yet, but I have measured up with the same GQ uppers, Surf lowers combo and it look like it should work. I will be running a panhard in the front ( 80 series), a single upper arm (GQ) and two lowers ofcoarse (surf).

Pete

[Ridge]

what do the surf lower arms measure to Fatzook?

OL was helpful and i have been told 80 series
lowers are 700
uppers are 400

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/sutra1787017.php#1787017

[Fatzook]

GQ uppers 395-400
Surf Lowers 460-465

They are fitted to car so kind of hard to get an accurate measurement.

[zookernator]

Whilst we're talking about control arm lengths, why cant you extend a pre excisting arm? For eg, if you had an arm that only measured 200mm, but you wanted one say 320mm, to save the mucking around trying to find the "perfect" control arm, why couldnt you chop the 200mm arm in half, and lenghten it using some tonka tough piping or something?

[Fatzook]

zookernator wrote:

Whilst we're talking about control arm lengths, why cant you extend a pre excisting arm? For eg, if you had an arm that only measured 200mm, but you wanted one say 320mm, to save the mucking around trying to find the "perfect" control arm, why couldnt you chop the 200mm arm in half, and lenghten it using some tonka tough piping or something?

You can.

But it then becomes a custom arm, and IF your engineer will accept it, he will first need X-rays and destruction tests done at the very least, to prove his finding that they are suitable for onroad use. This will cost many thousands of dollars, and will require a certain number of sample arms for destuction testing.

Because of all this, if you can stick to an OEM arm, you will be more likely to find an engineer to sign off on your mods.

And the upside is that spares become much easier to find.

Peter

[zookernator]

uh huh.. i see. Unfortunatly an engineer wont be looking at this project Thanks for the feedback

[Ridge]

You can get adjustable arms from snake racing and superior engineering they can increase 100-150mm from the stock length.
At the moment i am looking at using 80 series lower arms 700mm with adjustable uppers and set them at 500mm.
From some of what i have read so far, having the uppers 70% of the length of the lowers is ideal?? Some other people have all the arms at similar lengths

[TASSIETOYUKI]

zookernator wrote:

uh huh.. i see. Unfortunatly an engineer wont look at this vehicle

Fixed for ya

[zookernator]

TASSIETOYUKI wrote:

zookernator wrote:

uh huh.. i see. Unfortunatly an engineer wont look at this vehicle

Fixed for ya

oh now thats harsh!!

[zookernator]

Ridge wrote:

You can get adjustable arms from snake racing and superior engineering they can increase 100-150mm from the stock length.
At the moment i am looking at using 80 series lower arms 700mm with adjustable uppers and set them at 500mm.
From some of what i have read so far, having the uppers 70% of the length of the lowers is ideal?? Some other people have all the arms at similar lengths

Sounds like the 80 series lower arms are near the same as GQ's.. their 670mm. Having the uppers as adjustables do seems like a top idea hey, especially so you adjust it all to suit the correct anti-squat etc. As for the arm lenghts, i have heard different versions to.. but the 70% one (or there abouts) seems like the most common way to go!

[Ridge]

I have heard that holden jackaroo links are meant to be the longest. Not sure on their size but there is a wrecker near me that has a few. ill be heading out there later this week to have a look

[TASSIETOYUKI]

zookernator wrote:

TASSIETOYUKI wrote:

zookernator wrote:

uh huh.. i see. Unfortunatly an engineer wont look at this vehicle

Fixed for ya

oh now thats harsh!!

Its all in good fun buddy
But i have a blue plate and you dont, na na
Gunna "try" and get round today or tommorow
maybe tonight would be best?