[Stuey]

I've had a ongoing problem with an intermittant noise coming from the frond of my car when in 4wd (note: there is no noise or associated problems in 2wd). The best way I can describe it is a metallic "chattering" sound or "metal skimming metal" that comes and goes and from what I can tell it seems to be related to the driveline being under load. Most off my offroading is beach work so in these circumstances I have noticed NO Sound when accelerating or cruising, but the sound appears when decelerating or coasting, say down a small sand bank or a dune.

I went for a beach run today and in addition to this "chattering", I was getting the occasional loud "clunk". To be honest it sounded like my hub/s jumping out then re locking.

No noise comes from my CV's on lock to lock turning and nothing suggests that they may be faulty.

I've had my hubs apart before and cleaned them up, re greased them but this problem has always been present. The fact is, I dont know what is considered a "good condition" for a hub, and what I should be looking for to determine if something is faulty. Nothing is obviously stuffed, no chunks of metal, sheared teeth etc. So what would cause a hub to jump in and out like that?

Or could it be something totally different?

I may go for manual hubs one day, but to be honest, I quite like the Autos. And I dont really do anything that hardcore where the manuals would be deemed a must have item.

Anyhow, I dont expect any miracles here, as diagnosing a sound is needle in a haystack stuff, particularly when all I can give you is a description. But any thoughts appreciated.

Cheers.

[skitzlux]

check yours unis for movement and drop a little bit of diff oil and if it is sparkly and metalic best bet is your diff is fucked

[Stuey]

skitzlux wrote:

check yours unis for movement and drop a little bit of diff oil and if it is sparkly and metalic best bet is your diff is fucked

I'll check the unis tomorrow. As for the diff I can guarantee its ok. As stated the noise has been present more or less since getting the car a few years back. Since then I've had the diff out on numerous occasions to change to a GV steel housing and third member, put in new ratios and fit a locker. On all occasions all related components were in A1 condition.

But thanks for offering up a suggestion.

[Scrawny]

Do you have access to free wheeling hubs you could try, just to eliminate them?

[Westie]

Simple test for wheel bearing is to jsaj up front and place on stands make a fist and and hit it with the opposite end of your fist to your thumb hard. (Can use pipe or hammer but you here and feel more with you fist)
You should here a "thump sound" if you here any sort of referb sound at all you will find the the bearing are shot. this also works on the rear. There may be a inner that has broken and the noise you hear is it crunching as it will be under more load when it is in 4WD than free wheeling.

Also you may be worth to remove the front sharft to check the uni's.

[wyt91t]

I think there are two reasons for this happening.

Reason One:
It's your hubs the springs in them arnt set on properly therfore causing them to try to engage every now and then with help from gravity, ie; the level of the road (sloping down to the left) and the tyre spinning at high speeds. But since the tyre is spinning so fast the hub gears cant lock in causing the clicking sound you are hearing this is the hub bouncing back out the into the "FREE" position.

This happens sometimes to me about a two day after going wheeling the hubs grease dries up and get a little rust on them and stick, this causes mine to unspring themselveswhen i try to unlock them i find them a little stiffer,the way i fix it is by cleaning/rebuilding and greasing them up again.

Reason Two:
Also there is is something else you need to look for i dont know how well you know your hubs but once you pull everything apart when you clean them the main cover it still has the (what can i call it "the dial") turning bit that changes from "FREE" to "LOCK" in the middle of the front cover.

So the main cover and the dial if you pull this apart be very carefull as you might not have noticed but this dial has a hole drilled in it that is located where the dot is on the dial ( the metal where you grab to turn.) This holds a spring and a little ball bearing, this is what also keeps you hubs in the "LOCK" position or in your case what isnt keeping it in the "FREE".

Check that it is in good condition and has no rust on the spring and ball bearing and that it slides in and out with out getting stuck.

I would pull the one you think this noise is coming from which to me sounds like the right side (driver's side) hub as this side is the only one that i have had trouble with as i didnt have the bearing in mine proberbly from me not paying attention last time i pulled it apart and lost it i had to replace it with a spring from a clicky pen and the ball from what ever i could find.

regards christian
let me know how you go

[MrRocky]

uni's would be my guess

[Stuey]

Quote:

Do you have access to free wheeling hubs you could try, just to eliminate them?

This would be ideal, but unfortunately no, I have none available to me. I might have to grab the set Stekky had up for offer if he still has them.

Quote:

Simple test for wheel bearing is to jsaj up front and place on stands make a fist and and hit it with the opposite end of your fist to your thumb hard. (Can use pipe or hammer but you here and feel more with you fist)
You should here a "thump sound" if you here any sort of referb sound at all you will find the the bearing are shot. this also works on the rear. There may be a inner that has broken and the noise you hear is it crunching as it will be under more load when it is in 4WD than free wheeling.

Also you may be worth to remove the front sharft to check the uni's.

I'll give the bearing your home mechanic test and I'll get back to you on it. But what part am I hitting in your description? The hub itself with the wheel on?

Quote:

Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:54 am Post subject: Re: Metallic "chattering" and front end clunk in 4

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think there are two reasons for this happening.

Reason One:
It's your hubs the springs in them arnt set on properly therfore causing them to try to engage every now and then with help from gravity, ie; the level of the road (sloping down to the left) and the tyre spinning at high speeds. But since the tyre is spinning so fast the hub gears cant lock in causing the clicking sound you are hearing this is the hub bouncing back out the into the "FREE" position.

This happens sometimes to me about a two day after going wheeling the hubs grease dries up and get a little rust on them and stick, this causes mine to unspring themselveswhen i try to unlock them i find them a little stiffer,the way i fix it is by cleaning/rebuilding and greasing them up again.

Reason Two:
Also there is is something else you need to look for i dont know how well you know your hubs but once you pull everything apart when you clean them the main cover it still has the (what can i call it "the dial") turning bit that changes from "FREE" to "LOCK" in the middle of the front cover.

So the main cover and the dial if you pull this apart be very carefull as you might not have noticed but this dial has a hole drilled in it that is located where the dot is on the dial ( the metal where you grab to turn.) This holds a spring and a little ball bearing, this is what also keeps you hubs in the "LOCK" position or in your case what isnt keeping it in the "FREE".

Check that it is in good condition and has no rust on the spring and ball bearing and that it slides in and out with out getting stuck.

I would pull the one you think this noise is coming from which to me sounds like the right side (driver's side) hub as this side is the only one that i have had trouble with as i didnt have the bearing in mine proberbly from me not paying attention last time i pulled it apart and lost it i had to replace it with a spring from a clicky pen and the ball from what ever i could find.

regards christian
let me know how you go

Christian, thanks for taking the time to write such a thorough reply, but I'm not sure you were aware that my hubs are "Auto" hubs and not manual ones. I might tear my hubs down again and try and figure out what does what, and if it seems to be working properly.


Looks like a day under the car again. I'll get back on how I go.

[ninjadaniel]

why not take the hubs off completely? put it in 4wd and see if it makes the noise- if it still did it, would point fingers at the unis and pinion bearing.

[Joe]

Stuey it sounds like your car is fucked mate and it might be time to do a straight swap for my car
But seeing as more then likely you wont fall for that one you can pinch the hubs off my car for a few hours if ya like

Ill give ya a call later on

[Stuey]

Well, over the weekend I pulled the hubs apart and cleaned them all up. Checked over them for signs of abnormal wear but all seemed in order. Re greased them and put them back in and they seem to function 100%. In fact after cleaning them up the engaging and disengaging seems more defined. The occasional clunk sound I had (which I put down to a faulty hub not locking in properly) has gone. However the metallic chattering/skimming sound remains.

Crawled underneath and all uni joints are good from what i can tell. No excess play or slop, all free moving and no visual signs of wear.

I tried Westies "bearing check" idea (at least I think I did it the way he suggested) and bearings seem good.

So faark knows what it is. I hate diagnosing stuff like this. You almost need to be strapped under the car while someones driving along to find these noises. PITA.

Next on the list is Hubs off like Ninjadaniel suggests and see if the noise remains. Now just to check, by taking the hubs off I can safely drive on a non slip surface (ie bitumen) without the risk of transfer case wind up yes? Because the wheels are still independent and despite the cvs turning the wheels wont correct?

BTW, nice try Joe. If all else fails I'll take you up on the offer of the loan hubs just to eliminate possible causes. Thanks mate.

[atari4x4]

weird, is it not something jammed in the caliper or backing plate?

i had something very similar happen on the weekend in the dunes...

limped it back to camp, pulled the wheel & free wheeling hub & couldn't see anything smashed it all back & it was fine for the rest of the weekend.

[Stuey]

atari4x4 wrote:

weird, is it not something jammed in the caliper or backing plate?
i had something very similar happen on the weekend in the dunes...

limped it back to camp, pulled the wheel & free wheeling hub & couldn't see anything smashed it all back & it was fine for the rest of the weekend.

Nah, but it does almost sound like that I guess. As it only happens in 4wd I can only assume it has nothing to do with the calipers or backing plate as you'd expect that to be an issue in 2wd as well.

Is there any part of a cv that could cause a metallic rattle? I'm just clutching at straws now. Declines seem to be when the noise is most obvious.

[atari4x4]

is it coming from the left or right side?

cv's are pretty cheap & the old ones could be used as spares...

while you're still awake & it appears joseph is asleep go & grab some free-free wheeling hubs & see if that helps

[Stuey]

atari4x4 wrote:

is it coming from the left or right side?

cv's are pretty cheap & the old ones could be used as spares...

while you're still awake & it appears joseph is asleep go & grab some free-free wheeling hubs & see if that helps

Ha ha. Try explaining that one. Sorry Joe..... but Gus said I could. Dont look at me, take it up with him!

Sounds like Front RHS but you know how sounds can throw themselves.

[atari4x4]

haha, send him my way if he kicks up a stink... it would be a couple of days before he notices.

it could be sand or something in the wheel bearing, how close is the RHS inner CV to the calmini diff drop bracket? can you seen any scrapes on the outer.

[Westie]

Just a thought is it possible to have a sm rock caught along side the outer CV on the inner side of the hub. Get some INOX and spray it in along side the CV and take it for a drive and see if you can get it to do it. Can you make it do this noise when you want to or is it intermittent.
Or the clip holding the CV Boot on scraping against the side of the inner hub.

The only other thing is if you can get it to make this noise. it might be time to take it to a workshop and get a mehcanic to look at it

[Joe]

If my hubs go missing i know where to go..............ill take the ones off Tasbrads car

[Stuey]

Westie wrote:

Just a thought is it possible to have a sm rock caught along side the outer CV on the inner side of the hub. Get some INOX and spray it in along side the CV and take it for a drive and see if you can get it to do it. Can you make it do this noise when you want to or is it intermittent.
Or the clip holding the CV Boot on scraping against the side of the inner hub.

The only other thing is if you can get it to make this noise. it might be time to take it to a workshop and get a mehcanic to look at it

Completely intermittent. As I say, I've only ever noticed it when off road and rolling down a bank or something similar. Its not there all the time so that rules out something being stuck in the cv or sand in a bearing.

I have no other way to describe it. I think the closest sound I have ever heard to it is when the clutch on my a/c compressor failed one year. It made a horrible metalic rattle until i turned it off. Similar sound but obviously not my a/c. I'm trying to somehow link the sound to being nose down in the car and off power (coasting). Its got me stuffed.

I asked Suzistore about it before but they cant replicate it since they have nowhere to take the car and put it in 4wd.

[jabba]

Stuey wrote:

I've had a ongoing problem with an intermittant noise coming from the frond of my car when in 4wd (note: there is no noise or associated problems in 2wd). The best way I can describe it is a metallic "chattering" sound or "metal skimming metal" that comes and goes and from what I can tell it seems to be related to the driveline being under load.

G'day

I'd be interested to know what the fix is for this too. Although I do like Christians 1st possible cause as this sounds the most probable in my case.

Yesterday I went out to Poverty Point on Bribie Island for a spot of fishing and noticed a similar sound, a sort of metallic ticking from the front.

Although mine did it in 4WD in both high and low range, it also did it with the hubs engaged and in 2WD (I have manual hubs). When I disengaged the hubs (in 2WD) the noise was not present. I wonder if it only shows up in 4WD on Stueys because of the auto engage.

I might add I know squat about 4WD's as this is my first so this is just a guess.

BTW: At around mid day I saw a guy with a Sierra out at the emporium getting a beach permit at the same time as me. Wonder if he is on this list too?