[Che]

I have a mod plate on the firewall (dated 02/1991) that's in regards to the back seat that was in my car, a 08/1990 hardtop.

The back seat is long gone from and I have a gas tank in it's place. But after taking it to QLD transport to get my car details changed, I now have to get a mod for the back seat being removed.

Whats with this? I thought the back seat was a factory install?


Seems freaking stupid that I need a mod plate to nulify the mod plate that is already there...

Why can't I get rid of the original plate and have nothing at all?

[Fatzook]

che_guitarra wrote:

I have a mod plate on the firewall (dated 02/1991) that's in regards to the back seat that was in my car, a 08/1990 hardtop.

The back seat is long gone from and I have a gas tank in it's place. But after taking it to QLD transport to get my car details changed, I now have to get a mod for the back seat being removed.

Whats with this? I thought the back seat was a factory install?


Seems freaking stupid that I need a mod plate to nulify the mod plate that is already there...

Why can't I get rid of the original plate and have nothing at all?

Some of the hard tops were sold as 'Wagons' and did not have a rear seat. They were complied as a 2 seater. The Mod plate is most likely for a 4 seat mod ( its shit that they make you mod plate a seat that literally bolts in....); so now that you have removed the seat, it must be re-tagged as a 2 seater. What a mess

[superduki]

Not sure what the laws are like in QLD mate, but in Tassie, in any car if you remove or add seats, they need to be approved by a registered seat fitter. I recently failed a 7 seater Jackaroo because it only had the 5 seats in it, but the compliance plate stated 7. It had to have a mod plate fitted to state it was now only a 5 seater.

Gay rule, but thats unfortunately how the world works!

[BlueSuzy]

Cant just drill off the mod plate??

Or does it full replace the original compliance plate?

[whincup]

ummm... Question, sorry for hijacking thread. i have a sierra with back seats, however the seats are held in by 2 bolts each at the front, and a clamp at the back that has 2 bolts and both seats share this clamp. seatbelts are one bolt each... total of 8 bolts. i usually pull the seats out and only put them in when i need them... extra space, and is lighter. would this then mean its illegal because its meant to have 4 seats? seems like theyre supposed to be removable...

btw, i only explained how it worked because i dont know if its something the old owners did or if its stock...

[BlueSuzy]

Complianced for 4 seats MEANS 4 seats at all times.

If you have 2 seats in the car and 2 removed. You can be defected. (you would need a cop with a pole up his arse though) I have ran 2 seats for 2 yrs..non plated.. nsw..

Just the same as a car complianced with 2 seats, and putting 6 in..

Anything in a sierra is removable easy! So you can't use that excuse

[alien]

yup - when i engineered mine i had no back seats in (dont use them) and that was part of the inspection that i've changed to 2 seats.

They said if i wanted to put the rears back in i'd bolt them in and then bring it back over the pits again to get it added to my papers.

$80 for the inspection and about 5 mins of their time.

nice.

[just_cruizin]

Same with my cruiser and you don't even have to undo a bolt, they clip in.

[Fatzook]

BlueSuzy wrote:

Cant just drill off the mod plate??

Or does it full replace the original compliance plate?

No. Because DOT have a record of the mod plate and its serial number marked against your VIN in their database. So if you remove that mod plate and just fit another, their system will tell them that you have 2 different mod plate when you only have one fitted.

I'm sure that the mod plate can be 'un-done' with another, but exactly how would be up to DOT.

Pete

[royce]

Yeah I looked at this for mine, getting it changed to a 2 seater now and then removing it later when I sell it and put the seats back in and yes you need another plate to undo it

wouldnt surprise me one bit if you pulled the plate off and toodled in one day and said I noticed that the rego says its a 4 seater when you can clearly see in the car and from the compliance plate its a 2 seater and you lot have stuffed up

[ball]

royce wrote:

Yeah I looked at this for mine, getting it changed to a 2 seater now and then removing it later when I sell it and put the seats back in and yes you need another plate to undo it

wouldnt surprise me one bit if you pulled the plate off and toodled in one day and said I noticed that the rego says its a 4 seater when you can clearly see in the car and from the compliance plate its a 2 seater and you lot have stuffed up

My bike was registered like that in QLD. It should have had a mod plate for the single seat rego (which is much cheaper) but it didn't.

Only had to get them to look out the window and they could see it only had 1 seat. Just told them that it was standard.

[lukes_89]

also if i get my car plated for 2 seats and decide going camping throw in the rear seats can i then be defected for having 4 as the 2 badges in the car will state 4 on the original badge and 2 on the mod?

[2stroker]

che_guitarra wrote:

I have a mod plate on the firewall (dated 02/1991) that's in regards to the back seat that was in my car, a 08/1990 hardtop.

The back seat is long gone from and I have a gas tank in it's place. But after taking it to QLD transport to get my car details changed, I now have to get a mod for the back seat being removed.

Whats with this? I thought the back seat was a factory install?


Seems freaking stupid that I need a mod plate to nulify the mod plate that is already there...

Why can't I get rid of the original plate and have nothing at all?

So what does it say on your factory plate 2 or 4

This is interesting reading.............

Discussion

When the original vehicle is certified under the DoTaRS system, the manufacturer specifies mass and seating capacity. This information determines the vehicle classification and the appropriate test masses for conducting the relevant dynamic crash testing (where needed). In some vehicles the seats can be removed without needing any tools and in some others only a spanner is needed.

Rule 32 of the AVSRs states that "any seat in a vehicle must be securely attached". There is no requirement that a seat must be permanently attached where removal would require more than simple hand tools. It is presumed the intent of this AVSR is to mandate that seats are fixed or secured adequately to allow safe operation and carriage of occupants. It is silent in regard to allowing the removal of seats.

Generally following VSB5, removal of seats does not change the actual seating 'capacity' in those types of vehicles where the seats can be reinstated readily.

Providing no anchorages for seat, seat belt or child restraint are removed or modified, no modification has been made to the seating capacity. However if the seat cannot be returned to its original position and comply with all requirements, e.g. due to the removal of an anchorage point, then a permanent change in seating capacity has occurred. To formalise this change in seating capacity, an inspection will be required and following inspection a certificate of exemption issued for the permanent removal of the (rear) seat. A modification plate would also be attached to the vehicle recording the change in seating capacity.

Recommendation

Removing seats, where no tools or only simple tools are needed, where no structural modifications are involved; no change in vehicle category and no commercial gain is sought; does not need approval and so is not committing an offence. No AVSR is affected nor are any ADRs breached.

No approval is needed and no seating change plate is issued where temporary changes are made. An example of a temporary change includes removing the rear seat(s) from a hatchback to make available additional load space, providing there was no expectation of the vehicle being classified from a sedan to a commercial vehicle.

Where the seats are removed to change a vehicle registration category, or to skirt established arrangements such as ADR certification, or to make a substantial structural change relevant authority approval is needed. If any change in classification is sought, an inspection is required and a label attached accordingly.

The Vehicle Standards Instruction L 5.0 has been provided by Queensland Transport and is reproduced in part:

For vehicles fitted with quick release seating attachments as original equipment, temporary removal of the seats is acceptable. A Modification Plate does not need to be fitted. This is commonly the case for four wheel drives and people movers.

For vehicles fitted with bolt in seating structures, no approval by an Approved Person is necessary for the temporary removal of seats, provided the category of the vehicle does not change as a result of the seating reduction.

Vehicles with the permanent removal of seating structures must be approved by an Approved Person and a Modification Plate must be fitted for the reduction in seating capacity. In this circumstance, any change in vehicle category must also be taken into consideration prior to the fitting of the Modification Plate. The vehicle operator's insurance company and Queensland Transport should be advised of relative changes to the vehicle.

NOTE: For the purposes of this policy, "permanent" means the seats are removed for an indefinite period or not expected to be refitted.

Queensland Transport will mutually recognise interstate drivers travelling in Queensland who comply with their own jurisdiction's requirements. These drivers are advised to carry some proof of this compliance.

At the time of a Safety Certificate inspection, the vehicle must be returned to the manufacturer's original condition or have a Modification Plate fitted for the seating configuration as presented.

The vehicle modifier/operator is responsible for ensuring that the safety of the vehicle is maintained and that all seats, when being re-installed, are re-installed in accordance with relevant standards and recognised automotive practice.

Summary

By inter-government agreement vehicle standards are common throughout Australia, although the implementation of rules and policies is up to the individual State jurisdiction. This means that the above advice applies in the States as noted (Qld, Vic, SA) and all other states and territories have no formal policy.

[2stroker]

Just found this...........

TEMPORARY REMOVAL OF SEATS:

Modifications to vehicles are regulated in Queensland to ensure those vehicles remain in a safe condition. The Transport Operations (Road Use Management - Vehicle Standards and Safety) Regulation 1999 requires modifications to be approved. Seating capacity changes are approved though the Approved Person scheme.

The main principal that needs to be addressed in scenarios that have arisen in relation to the removal of seats is whether the vehicle is actually modified or has just been reconfigured in accordance with the manufacturers various options. If seats are reconfigured, no modification occurs and approval is not required. The other factor is the length of time the seats will be removed.

Queensland Transport's policy in relation to this matter is as follows:

For vehicles fitted with quick release seating attachments as original equipment, temporary removal of the seats is acceptable. A Modification Plate does not need to be fitted. This is commonly the case for four wheel drives and people movers.

For vehicles fitted with bolt in seating structures, no approval by an Approved Person is necessary for the temporary removal of seats, provided the category of the vehicle does not change as a result of the seating reduction.

Vehicles with the permanent removal of seating structures must be approved by an Approved Person and a Modification Plate must be fitted for the reduction in seating capacity. In this circumstance, any change in vehicle category must also be taken into consideration prior to the
fitting of the Modification Plate. The vehicle operator's insurance company and Queensland Transport should be advised of relative changes to the vehicle.

NOTE: For the purposes of this policy, "permanent" means the seats are removed for an
indefinite period or not expected to be refitted.

Queensland Transport will mutually recognise interstate drivers traveling in Queensland who comply with their own jurisdiction's requirements. These drivers are advised to carry some proof of this compliance.

At the time of a Safety Certificate inspection, the vehicle must be returned to the manufacturer's original condition or have a Modification Plate fitted for the seating configuration as presented.

The vehicle modifier/operator is responsible for ensuring that the safety of the vehicle is maintained and that all seats, when being re-installed, are re-installed in accordance with relevant standards and recognised automotive practice.

Please note that modifying a vehicle that adversely affects its safety, or driving or parking an unsafe vehicle on a road are breaches of the Transport Operations (Road Use Management - Vehicle Standards and Safety) Regulation 1999.


Ana Halesworth
A/Asst Policy Officer
Policy Advice
Ph: 3253 4851

[zukenutter]

Interesting reading. I think that all sounds fair.

EDIT:
So because che_guitarra has a gas tank fitted it would be deemed as a permanent mod.

[royce]

We need another document defining Category, I remember a thread by 2stroker about CTP and sierras being dearer for 2 seat ones as they become classified as a commercial vehicle so while the document is going in the right direction I dont think its our answer in full

However its the line and document I will refer to should I ever get pulled up for it, even though I have drawers bolted in there they are faster to remove than the seats

[zukenutter]

royce wrote:

We need another document defining Category, I remember a thread by 2stroker about CTP and sierras being dearer for 2 seat ones as they become classified as a commercial vehicle so while the document is going in the right direction I dont think its our answer in full

However its the line and document I will refer to should I ever get pulled up for it, even though I have drawers bolted in there they are faster to remove than the seats

Me too

[Che]

Factory plate actually defines my wheels as a two seater wagon


I actually called up QT again this morning and got the same 'no can do' attitude. Was switched through to the mods dept, they agreed it's silly bureaucracy, but plates are plates and once they're on they can't come off.

[2stroker]

Ok boys I have found the form, it is a PFD file and I can't seem to get it to copy to here so search this in google and you will find it -

Qld Transport L 5.0

Print it out and keep it in your glove box.

Royce I see what you are getting at but the catagory in fact does not change because there is the ability to put the seats back in and you intend to put them back in (of course you do) so it still has a "maximum seating capacity of 4"

In the post about the ctp the LWB was already mod plated as a two seater, Qld transport said because it was plated as a two seater it was (according to their computer) a sports car, a van or a ute, because it was a soft top it could not be a van, and because it had an open cargo area it could not be a sports car, so it had to be a rego'd as a ute which was a commercial vehicle. I think this is the trouble that che_guitarra has come up against because his is also mod plated as a two seater.

[atari4x4]

pdf attached.

[royce]

Quote:

provided the category of the vehicle does not change as a
result of the seating reduction

I read that as while the seats are out it cannot change, IE if going from 4 seats to 2 seats changes the category, then they cant be temporarily removed, not that I know what a category is

[2stroker]

No no no no Royce....you are looking at it too logically, we are dealing with a Government department.

I have rang that number this morning 32534851 and spoke to Shane at Qld Transport Policy Advice, he says it is a common query and says the following is correct.

Providing no anchorages for seat, seat belt or child restraint are removed or modified, no modification has been made to the seating capacity. However if the seat cannot be returned to its original position and comply with all requirements, e.g. due to the removal or modification of an anchorage point or due to the "permanent fitment" of something that negates the ability to immediately refit the seating then a permanent change in seating capacity has occurred. Only if they deem it permanent does it change the catagory of vehicle

So I asked what would have them deem it permanent, he says where people have come unstuck is -

1. Bolting in a secure box or stucture to hold gear (he says think smart and use over latches on the secure box to hold it safely in place but still facilitate a quick release, some of these laches can be locked with a small padlock)

2. Fitting a roll cage that interferes with refitting the rear seat, the cage has to be complied and blue plated so it makes the removal of the seat "permanent"

He also says that their definition of "temporary" is "lasting for only a short term" and went on to say that if you "intended" to have it out for a week long camping trip that would be acceptable.

So if you get pulled over you took it out yesterday and its going back in tommorrow.........

[royce]

/must remember to look for the box of toggle latches in Bruces shed

the bolted in box thing is a bit dumb, my drawers are bolted to the floor using the seat mount holes so take no time to get out, I think I will be forever 'going on a camping trip though'

[Scrawny]

In answer to the earlier question, you cannot remove mod plates, you just add more. We have cars at work with 3+ plates on them

[2stroker]

royce wrote:

/must remember to look for the box of toggle latches in Bruces shed

the bolted in box thing is a bit dumb, my drawers are bolted to the floor using the seat mount holes so take no time to get out, I think I will be forever 'going on a camping trip though'

you are right, it is dumb as, but that is bureaucracy, how are they going to prove that the seats were not in two days ago, even if it was for 15 minutes

[steve-0]

My '96 coily is a factory 4 seater. It's got a modplate for changing it to a 2 seater and a modplate (at a later date) to change it back to a 4 seater.

I have no idea why they would of done the 2 seat mod, seems like a waste of time according to this statement from above:

"For vehicles fitted with bolt in seating structures, no approval by an Approved Person is necessary for the temporary removal of seats, provided the category of the vehicle does not change as a result of the seating reduction."

From what i can see, if you can't go home and put the seats back in at any given time (i.e. permanent) it'd need to be mod plated.

[jonno_racing]

i wonder how mine works... as it has a tourno cover etc made to cover over where the seats would bolt....

i am not that fussed i am looking at getting full mod plating for car soon so i will ge it all 100% lergit.

[ZookiMonsta]

jonno_racing wrote:

i wonder how mine works... as it has a tourno cover etc made to cover over where the seats would bolt....

i am not that fussed i am looking at getting full mod plating for car soon so i will ge it all 100% lergit.

I think they (DOT) would see that as a permanent alteration of the seating
capacity. But remember, this is mostly Qld we're talking about. I'm sure the
rules would be different in Tassy.

[BUZOOKA]

yer well ive had the rear seats out of my zook for over 12 months and never had a problem but hell Ive never been pulled over by the cops yet

think they would have more to worrie about with the the cruisers and trolls sitting on 38s and above