[lordfury007]

I know the legalities, I also know how to turn the safety switch off at the powerboard to isolate the house before starting, and also to test the wires before touching them even after isolating them.

I've got a powerpoint in my bathroom that doesnt work. I traced the wiring and it goes directly to a powerpoint in the roof, that the exhaust fan plugs into.

The exhaust fan has always worked perfectly fine, so the fault must lie between the exhaust fan powerpoint and the bathroom powerpoint. Today i just replaced the electrical wiring between the two powerpoints completely, but the fault remains the same... I'm lost as to what the cause could be, except that the new cable is broken also (which i think is highly unlikely)

I've checked behind the bathroom powerpoint and there isn't any power there, so the actual powerpoint can't be the problem.

Anyone able to throw a few ideas in? or is it time to call an electrician?

Edit: attached a diagram of how it is wired. I have been testing power with a 240V fused test screwdriver however i do not get enough earthing whilst in the roof cavity to confirm power is available to the exhaust fan powerpoint. I've tried earthing myself to the water pipes and also to the foil insulation however still doesnt register on the screwdriver.

[89_tintop]

wiring in the connection in the roof ok??

does it have power when the fan is turned on??

[royce]

I would say if you are unable to post in the correct section nor relise that an almost identical thread has been started TODAY you should leave it alone

[lordfury007]

royce wrote:

I would say if you are unable to post in the correct section

What makes wiring a car technical and wiring a house not? The greater amount of volts make it less technical?

royce wrote:

nor relise that an almost identical thread has been started TODAY

That thread was asking if someone could wire a ceiling fan to a lighting circuit. I'm asking why i'm not getting power on a powerpoint circuit, however another powerpoint in the same circuit is getting power. The lighting circuit on houses is far different to the powerpoint circuits.

Plus, that threads in the wrong section

[royce]

it gotta be pretty simple, how do you turn teh fan on and off? is there a switch on the wall for it? if so the powerpoint in the roof isnt really a powerpoint

does that powerpoint in the roof have active and neutral on it all the time or is one being switched?

does the non working powerpoint work when you turn the fan on

you say you understand testing it all but you so far have not been able to test at points and are resorting to replacing stuff in the hope it will go

[lordfury007]

royce wrote:

it gotta be pretty simple, how do you turn teh fan on and off? is there a switch on the wall for it? if so the powerpoint in the roof isnt really a powerpoint

does that powerpoint in the roof have active and neutral on it all the time or is one being switched?

does the non working powerpoint work when you turn the fan on

you say you understand testing it all but you so far have not been able to test at points and are resorting to replacing stuff in the hope it will go

What would we do without you Royce?

Something as simple as testing for power in the powerpoint while i have the exhaust fan turned on and it works fine. Strikes me as a silly way to have it wired up, having to have the exhaust fan on to use the powerpoint, but knowing that at least i can use the powerpoint now.

Can't believe i didn't think of it before, ahh well, all it cost me was $3.96 for two meters of electrical cable.

[royce]

now look at the switch, one wire from it will be supplying power to the powerpoint, the other will have power from the breaker

your second power point rather than being wired to teh live active is wired to teh switched, but i'm not going to explain it incase you die from it

[lordfury007]

royce wrote:

now look at the switch, one wire from it will be supplying power to the powerpoint, the other will have power from the breaker

your second power point rather than being wired to teh live active is wired to teh switched, but i'm not going to explain it incase you die from it

It's not my house, i don't really care

My mrs just wanted to plug her hair straightener into the bathroom powerpoint











Its actually my mates house... its going to be a rental house for as long as he owns it so he doesnt mind if its left this way either.

[royce]

you are taking active for the wall powerpoint (left pin) from the active pin in the roof powerpoint, this is switched by the wall switch, you need to move it to the real active that comes from the breaker, which is probably in another terminal that also runs to teh switch in the wall

[got_bar_work]

wat size cable is supplying the fan gpo is it 1.5 or 2.5
the fan gpo is usualy on the light circuit
if some one has taken the gpo off the light circuit that prety dogy
plug a lamp in the gpo and go turn off the light cb and c if it goes out

[lump_a_charcoal]

Lordfury,

STOP.


DO NOT STUFF AROUND TRYING TO GET A GOOD EARTH FOR A TEST SCREWDRIVER.


They are dodgy, use a multimeter, or just call an electrician.

That is what we are for after all.

[royce]

lump_a_charcoal wrote:

Lordfury,

STOP.


DO NOT STUFF AROUND TRYING TO GET A GOOD EARTH FOR A TEST SCREWDRIVER.


They are dodgy, use a multimeter, or just call an electrician.

That is what we are for after all.

its not registering cause there is no power there cause its switched

though I agree, you arent getting the idea and will catch fire soon

[lump_a_charcoal]

Do you people realise how little current it can take to stop the human heart?

100-300 mA can do it.


Do you realise how easy it is to create a hot joint?



Stop dicking around with electricity, use an electrican please.

[shakes]

lump_a_charcoal wrote:

Do you people realise how little current it can take to stop the human heart?

100-300 mA can do it.


Do you realise how easy it is to create a hot joint?



Stop dicking around with electricity, use an electrican please.

well said

[lordfury007]

i've never really felt safe using a test screwdriver... might go throw mine away and save for a half decent multimeter... my last multimeter was a $15 job and it always felt like re-using a condom...

I don't do anything tricky with electrical wiring, just the very basics... and even then, i throw all the switches off at the switchboard just to be on the safe side (so the entire house is isolated when i work on wires)

I've got respect for electricians and all, but doing basic things like this can be done very safely and can save you a few hundred dollars. I'd never even dream of trying to wire in anything new to a house, but repairing electricity is as easy as chasing down where it is and isnt getting to

Last word is that the Powerpoint works now, I'm not touching it again... I don't care if there's a better way of getting it working, i've got better things to do with my time

[royce]

lump_a_charcoal wrote:

Do you people realise how little current it can take to stop the human heart?

100-300 mA can do it.


Do you realise how easy it is to create a hot joint?



Stop dicking around with electricity, use an electrican please.

Compared to wiring even set of spot lights house wiring is amazingly simple once you get your head around the indirect backward way switches are wired in

[zooked]

royce wrote:

Compared to wiring even set of spot lights house wiring is amazingly simple once you get your head around the indirect backward way switches are wired in

If you knew any thing about household wiring you would not be giving out advice to people on a 4WD forum. If you had any idea about it you would know a bad connection in a car isnt that bigger deal but USE YOUR BRAIN!!!! IF YOU DONT KNOW HOW TO DO IT. DONT DODGEY WIRING WILL KILL YOU OR SOMBODY ELES.

[lump_a_charcoal]

You are partly right Rice, but it is not all about the theory.
We spend 3 years going once a week to a TAFE to learn the theory.
We spend 4 years on the job learning the proper way to do things - It is not all about twisting wires together and learning the colours...

[royce]

zooked wrote:

royce wrote:

Compared to wiring even set of spot lights house wiring is amazingly simple once you get your head around the indirect backward way switches are wired in

If you knew any thing about household wiring you would not be giving out advice to people on a 4WD forum. If you had any idea about it you would know a bad connection in a car isnt that bigger deal but USE YOUR BRAIN!!!! IF YOU DONT KNOW HOW TO DO IT. DONT DODGEY WIRING WILL KILL YOU OR SOMBODY ELES.

can you tell me what kind of bad connections in a house would kill me? does the union tell you to say that to protect the industry?

I have seen work done by electricians that is total and utter messy shit, but its ok cause its all hidden behind walls and in the roof, I have also had a lot of long conversations with a lot of electricians and some of them will concede its pretty basic, some of em somehow got through will no idea of ohms law

[royce]

lump_a_charcoal wrote:

You are partly right Rice, but it is not all about the theory.
We spend 3 years going once a week to a TAFE to learn the theory.
We spend 4 years on the job learning the proper way to do things - It is not all about twisting wires together and learning the colours...

the fact you are allowed to twist wires together is something I find really funny

[nissvit]

royce wrote:

can you tell me what kind of bad connections in a house would kill me?

Royce, I'll give you two very quickly:
- in old houses they used the galvanised water pipe is the main earth return, with the introduction of plastic pipes used by most plumbers the earth now has to be set with a secondary earth stake...

- there are differing size cables between lighting & power circuits.. in the above example, the fan is likely to run of a lighting circuit (1.5mm) where the power point should be connected with 2.5mm cable... this type of wiring can lead to overheating of cables.. which then damages the cable insulation and then starts fires.....

[zooked]

royce wrote:

can you tell me what kind of bad connections in a house would kill me? does the union tell you to say that to protect the industry?

I have seen work done by electricians that is total and utter messy shit, but its ok cause its all hidden behind walls and in the roof, I have also had a lot of long conversations with a lot of electricians and some of them will concede its pretty basic, some of em somehow got through will no idea of ohms law

If you have a bad connection it will cause heat to be generated then when enough heat is generated you house will burn down. But as you know everything Im guessing I will be wrong and you are the expert on this. If you want to your own wiring good for you Royce but dont encourage other people to do it.

[royce]

nissvit wrote:

royce wrote:

can you tell me what kind of bad connections in a house would kill me?

Royce, I'll give you two very quickly:
- in old houses they used the galvanised water pipe is the main earth return, with the introduction of plastic pipes used by most plumbers the earth now has to be set with a secondary earth stake...

- there are differing size cables between lighting & power circuits.. in the above example, the fan is likely to run of a lighting circuit (1.5mm) where the power point should be connected with 2.5mm cable... this type of wiring can lead to overheating of cables.. which then damages the cable insulation and then starts fires.....

your not an electrician though, so you arent allowed to know this stuff

[royce]

zooked wrote:

royce wrote:

can you tell me what kind of bad connections in a house would kill me? does the union tell you to say that to protect the industry?

I have seen work done by electricians that is total and utter messy shit, but its ok cause its all hidden behind walls and in the roof, I have also had a lot of long conversations with a lot of electricians and some of them will concede its pretty basic, some of em somehow got through will no idea of ohms law

If you have a bad connection it will cause heat to be generated then when enough heat is generated you house will burn down. But as you know everything Im guessing I will be wrong and you are the expert on this. If you want to your own wiring good for you Royce but dont encourage other people to do it.

yes resistance will cause heat build up that if not dissipated can cause fires, very common with cars and the battery leads if allowed to corrode

how much resistance is required in a 240v circuit to do that? even with a heater or something sucking 10 amps its gotta be difficult to achieve?

And while I am not in a mood to fire up at fuckheads, I am asking so perhaps some of us people you lot of unionists reckon dont know shit from clay might learn something, a little bit of knowledge is dangerous, a healthy understanding breeds respect of a hazard

[MART]

Your switch might be set up to turn fan off and on only or possibly activating the outlet when the fan is switched on. Does the switch or outlet have a seperate mech for the fan , Cheers Paul.

[zooked]

royce wrote:

yes resistance will cause heat build up that if not dissipated can cause fires, very common with cars and the battery leads if allowed to corrode

how much resistance is required in a 240v circuit to do that? even with a heater or something sucking 10 amps its gotta be difficult to achieve?

And while I am not in a mood to fire up at fuckheads, I am asking so perhaps some of us people you lot of unionists reckon dont know shit from clay might learn something, a little bit of knowledge is dangerous, a healthy understanding breeds respect of a hazard

Theres only one fuckhead on this forum Royce most people know, nobody says it cause they prob just banned
As for that heater drawing 10 amps what if someone makes a bad connection and that 10amps is heating a 4mm screw on that connection you so fucken smart figure out how much heat will be on that screw.

[royce]

awww you tasmanians get so aggro, must be the cold weather or sister loving getting to you

so what you are saying is you dont know? I'm just a dumb ass person I am not supposed to know, hence why I asked

[Shansh]

lordfury007 wrote:

i've never really felt safe using a test screwdriver... might go throw mine away and save for a half decent multimeter... my last multimeter was a $15 job and it always felt like re-using a condom...

I don't do anything tricky with electrical wiring, just the very basics... and even then, i throw all the switches off at the switchboard just to be on the safe side (so the entire house is isolated when i work on wires)

I've got respect for electricians and all, but doing basic things like this can be done very safely and can save you a few hundred dollars. I'd never even dream of trying to wire in anything new to a house, but repairing electricity is as easy as chasing down where it is and isnt getting to

Last word is that the Powerpoint works now, I'm not touching it again... I don't care if there's a better way of getting it working, i've got better things to do with my time

even a 15 buck mulitmeter is better than what we in the trade call a lightning rod, one guess why mate

[lump_a_charcoal]

royce wrote:

the fact you are allowed to twist wires together is something I find really funny

Which is why you should leave the work to us.

[royce]

lump_a_charcoal wrote:

royce wrote:

the fact you are allowed to twist wires together is something I find really funny

Which is why you should leave the work to us.

why dont you crimp or solder?