[lordfury007]

Can i just stick my head in again?

In the end, every person is responsible for what they themselves do. If i want to play with 240V wire, I probably will. If i kill myself doing that, its not Royce's fault nor is it anyone elses fault on this forum. Even if someone told me to grab the red cable with a wet hand, its still my fault if i do it.

I know how far i'm willing to go with electricity, and I know how easily it can kill. I know there is plenty of power in a diahatsu charade car battery or a 9 volt smoke detector battery to kill someone,, and on occasion it does. Does that mean i'm not going to change a car battery ever again? of course not. Life is one big "Hazard Risk Assessment" as my work calls it. You assess the risk, eliminate or minimise it, and get on with the job when you accept the danger.

In the end, If i didn't get the answer here, I'd have gone somewhere else, or i would have started "trial and error" until i was happy i couldn't continue. At that point i would have called an electrician. Calling an electrician for this would have cost me $150 just for him to tell me to turn the exhaust fan on if i want to use the powerpoint.

[royce]

the dilemma here as others have pointed out if you read all the little bits is thats not a safe way to operate, maybe if you were running a little night light it could be ok but teh current draw of a hair thingymagic is very high and its likely that a dodgy setup also has a few install points that arent real great and are likely to fail in the process, not to mention the switch that turns it all on isnt rated for that kind of current

[lump_a_charcoal]

royce wrote:

lump_a_charcoal wrote:

royce wrote:

the fact you are allowed to twist wires together is something I find really funny

Which is why you should leave the work to us.

why dont you crimp or solder?

Because most household wiring/equipment is designed to be twisted together, and then held with a screw, or two.

We also do crimp and solder, however it is not as common as it can't really be undone like a twisted cable can.

There is really no other way of connecting 3 x 2.5mm cables together, in one terminal without twisting them.


Household electrical is generally not rocket surgery, but something that you don't know and skim over can cause unforseen problems.

I read a report on how a little girl was killed by touching a tap outside, and how the dad did some wiring, and inadvertently removed the earth stake from the installation by using the earth for a new light instead (it was something along those lines, can't remember the exact details).

Too many times I go and repair some home owner's attempt - My favourites are when they install an IXL in the bathroom, and then find that they don't need to run new switch wires, because there are these little green ones not doing anything - We'll just use them!




If you are doing your own work, turn off all the switches in your switchboard, but DO NOT remove the service fuse!

[royce]

Its the random connection bit with twisting I dont get, in automotive stuff where the current levels are heaps higher so bad connections show up straight away twisting and screw down terminals are the devil cause they fail so much

doesnt matter what the industry, there are idiots that think they can do more than they can, there are plenty of cars coming at you on the other side of the road every day with shit going on under them you just dont want to know about but the big it will kill you line doesnt come up when it comes to people fixing their own cars

hehe I was going to leave that last bit out but you guys fire up so easy

[zooked]

Also if worst case happens and house burns down or someone does get seriously hurt. If the insurance Company or fire dept can prove you carried out illegal mods to household wiring you are in deep shit. I know someones gunna reply to this and say how can they prove who done it I dont know how they do it and probaly have hard time proving who done it but they are pretty dam good at what they do! Or worse what if someone like your missus or kids get hurt you will have to live with this. I am not a licenced Sparky Im just a fitter with a restricted Electrical licence so I do know enough to know that Yes anyone can add another powerpoint or replace a light switch but I also know what can go wrong and does go wrong. Just think about it

[lordfury007]

royce wrote:

the dilemma here as others have pointed out if you read all the little bits is thats not a safe way to operate, maybe if you were running a little night light it could be ok but teh current draw of a hair thingymagic is very high and its likely that a dodgy setup also has a few install points that arent real great and are likely to fail in the process, not to mention the switch that turns it all on isnt rated for that kind of current

As i was saying, I wasnt installing anything, and wasn't modifying anything. I was repairing something, I used exactly the same size wire (it was 4mm cable) and I didn't deviate from what was previoiusly there. From what i've been told this house was rewired about 3 years ago, and in the switchbox now is just a pile of safety switches (no fuse wires).

So Its not like i'm trying to "do a dodgy" i'm just trying to get back the original functionality. ie: what it was rated and designed for.

The most dodgy thing i've ever done with house power is cut the end off an extension cord, stick it through a wall, put a plug back on the end of it and plug it into a professionally wired socket. That was so i can have an outdoor light where i wanted it. Its still there today, and works a treat! (yes, the hole is waterproofed, and its also a waterproof light, and the other end of the extension cord is tucked into the roof eaves so theres no chance of water getting into it)

[royce]

yeah but now you know how to make it work and intend to use it like that, but the power is going through a switch that cant handle it and the fact it runs like that means something else is likely to be up

[lordfury007]

royce wrote:

yeah but now you know how to make it work and intend to use it like that, but the power is going through a switch that cant handle it and the fact it runs like that means something else is likely to be up

Theres a 50% chance of that happening... let me go and flick off the powerpoints at the switchboard and see if i still get power... then i'll try the lighting circuit...

It may be the exhaust fan is running on the powerpoint circuit and therefore the line is rated and designed for the load... its an interesting point though... i'll let you know how i go.

EDIT:
You're right, both the exhaust fan and the powerpoint is running off one of the two lighting circuits. I'll let the owner know and he can decide whether he wants to get an electrician in or not... I'll tell the mrs not to use that powerpoint until someone checks it out.

[royce]

THE FUCKING LIGHT SWITCH IN THE FUCKING WALL AND THE WIRES RUNNING TO IT ARE LIKELY NOT BIG ENOUGH TO HANDLE THE CURRENT DRAW OF A FUCKING HAIR STRAIGHTENER, NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT FUCKING CIRCUIT ITS ALL ON

[lordfury007]

and you say tasmanians get stirred up too easily?

Lets get this straight

I'm under the belief that this was all wired or checked by an electrician when the house was re-wired 3 years ago and that nothing has been changed since then, So i was also assuming the switch and cabling that the electrician laid can handle the job its designed to do.

The fact is, that it now is a powerpoint running off a lighting circuit, which i do believe is dodgy, makes me doubt something in the above sentence.

So while yes, you're probably right, if it was running on a powerpoint circuit then i would not be worried about using the powerpoint - as a powerpoint circuit is designed to take more load than a lighting circuit.

Do you see where i'm coming from?

EDIT: by the way, i'm going to bed now... too late to argue more, but it has been fun

[steak_knife]

royce wrote:

THE FUCKING LIGHT SWITCH IN THE FUCKING WALL AND THE WIRES RUNNING TO IT ARE LIKELY NOT BIG ENOUGH TO HANDLE THE CURRENT DRAW OF A FUCKING HAIR STRAIGHTENER, NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT FUCKING CIRCUIT ITS ALL ON

What??

[royce]

It can be supplied by the starship enterprise for all it matters, while its going through a lightswitch and some thin wire the switch and switching wire is a hazard

if the wall powerpoint was looped through the roof powerpoint properly there would be no issue and the powerpoint would of worked to begin with and this thread wouldnt be here

[boballan82]

Royce, stick to things you know about and have been properly trained to do. I have seen to many dodgey wiring jobs go wrong because people think they know but really don't know.

[lump_a_charcoal]

The difference between a power circuit and a lighting circuit is that (in most cases) a lighting circuit is run with 1mm cable, whereas the power circuit is 2.5mm cable.

Now I read that you repaired it with 4mm cable?

[MART]

You will find most power point and light switches run a 10 amp mech.

A whole house's load can be supplied by a 4mm cable , the reason they run a larger main in is for voltage drop.

Most main switches and rcd main switches in a housing setup will only have 6mm cable running through them.

My house for instance has a 16 mm cable into the switchboard which is then BP'd to a 6mm cable to run the house power and lights.

Every person undertaking electrical modifications to a house , etc , is taking a risk with there safety and there families safety.

If you don't know how to fix it , call a professional , it normally works out cheaper in the long run , Cheers Paul.


P.S. And yes I am a licenced contractor.

[got_bar_work]

just hop it got a rcd on the light circuit when it got rewired or i wouldnt beusing any thing in a bathroom out of that gpo
ps if there is 4mm cable in there it was no wired by a sparky and if it was he should have his licence taken away

[Bugsta]

Don't know if its been mentioned specifically, but 2 things...

A Power point wired to a lighting circuit - makes no difference if the last length of cable is larger, as all previous lengths are the limiting factor to the current capability of the circuit.

Yes, your hair dryer might only pull say 2 amps(?), but if you have already loaded the circuit with a heap if hungry lighting such as IXL sun lamps etc, that extra 2 amps could be enough to overload the circuit.

Its not the last piece of cable in a series circuit that is the most critical, but the first piece, as this carries the sum of all of the current drawers. This reduces as the cable leaves each fitting.

Incidentally, I am not an electrician but have had much experience in my own tinkering. Have rewired almost all of my own house from the old 2 core grey. I had an electrician upgrade my power box ready for 3 phase, and he commented that some wiring I showed him. He said I must have done it... "cos its too neat" lol!

EDIT: Oh, and an Associate Diploma of Electronics Engineering is a help to.

[lordfury007]

Just for further info, the whole house is wired with 4mm electrical cable, you can see the same size stuff running everywhere throughout the roof. Might be the fact its been "built to standards" that it is cyclone proof.

Also, the house lighting circuits are all just normal lights, and i've fitted them all with power saving flouro globes. There isn't any "heat lamps" in the bathroom or anything like that. Just normal globes (the house would have been built shortly after cyclone tracy i reckon)

anyways, its configured the way its configured, its up to the landlord to fix it if he wants to, i'm not inclined to use my money fixing up something that isn't mine.

[royce]

parallel not series

whats the bet in this case whoever fitted the fan pulled up the existing power point wiring and hooked that in and then run a new cable down the wall, he just hooked one wire up wrong is all