[xaravitara]

Been thinking about an Ignition Coil Upgrade for my 90 Vitara. Has any of you guys upgraded your coil?

I've been looking at the Pertronix Flame-Thrower and wondering if it will make any difference.

I understand that the standard coil may only out put around 20,000 volts and this coil will do anything up to 40,000 volts.



http://www.pertronix.com/prod/ig/flame/ ... _volt.aspx

[Rusho]

What is the cost? Who supplies them?

[JrZook]

xaravitara wrote:

I've been looking at the Pertronix Flame-Thrower and wondering if it will make any difference.

May I ask a serious question of what do you think it will do? Is the engine miss-firing? Does it already have good spark? Unless your ignition system is already on its wayy out I would not expect any significant gains from just a 'high voltage coil'

My 2 c Dan

[jonno_racing]

it will make little to NO diffrance..

more on the NO diffrance side.

[xaravitara]

They cost about $80 from a place in Melbourne, usually sold in the US though.

I've read a number of forums where people are claiming that the hotter spark allows for a larger gap on the plug. Thus increasing a better burn and supposidly better fuel efficiency etc etc etc.

[5ierra]

For what you gain is it really worth the hassle and the money?

[SuziBlu]

[matfan]

Just the weight saving alone from your wallet should cut down on fuel consumption......

[SuziBlu]

cost is sweet bugger all compared to the rest of the cost of upgrades such as lift kit, body lift, tropical radiator, battery, big wheel, big tyres etc, the coil n such is very small.

[matfan]

The cost of pink fluffy dice is small compared to those mods.... doesn't mean you should get em

[SuziBlu]

ok, so dont, i dont give a fuk, all I gave was an opinion, and my opinion is, its well worth the cost.

[royce]

the big gap is what develops the higher voltage spark, open your plugs up now and see how much difference it doesnt make, if you dont have a miss a fancy coil will do nothing

[SuziBlu]

Royce, I agree to a point.

What starts a fire better, a oxy/cetalene torch, or a match.

The hotter the coil, the bigger the gap can be, and so, the quicker the ignition of fuel, or more complete the combustion. Either way, better performance.

[royce]

yes the bigger the gap CAN be, but the correct question here is what improvement will you see with a bigger gap, will it make any difference at all given we are still igniting at the same point with the same amount of propgation and so on

[SuziBlu]

I believe so Royce, as the bigger gap means a bigger spark (length), and so, fater ignition, and, a longer burn period so that more is burnt, less waste and, more broom.

I know this is a badish comparison, but during the war, many planes had magnito ignition with 2 plugs, when run up for take off, they would run to full power, then shut down 1 plug, expect 15% loss of revs, then back onto 2 plugs, shut the other down, 15% loss of revs. IF either did not result in 15% loss of power the plane was not allowed to take off, as there was incomplete of ignition.

So if you have a spark that is 50% longer and hotter, even blind freddy could see that ignition must be more better power or less fuel used, depending on what you are doin.

[royce]

2 plugs = 2 points of ignition, what gets fire started easier, 2 firelighters stacked on top of each other or 1 on either side of the pile?

longer dwell may have a better effect with a more saturated coil, MSD likely will due to it firing numerous times so more fresh flame fronts.

no doubt there are gains to be had with more spark applied but a simply larger gap will have little effect I think

[SuziBlu]

Even tho, in the firt instance, a 0.8mm gap may ignite say, x amount of fuel, the rest is burn, where as a 1.2mm gap, must ignite 50% more fuel, and the rest is burn.

More ignition, more start.

I understand that we are not talking huge gains here, as 50% more of fukall is not very much, but, as I said earlier, the little 1.3l needs all the help she can get, is why I went to redline oils thru-out as they are the finest oil, so, less drag.

I love MSD, and believe that when I put it on, and went for a drive, the power difference was very easily felt, more pick up, hung on a lot longer (more torque) before needing a down-change. Better fuel milage when not in play mode as well.

My new build will have a full MSD set up, not just the ignition module.

I believe in trying o get max out of an engine, there is no such ting as enuf.

[JrZook]

[SuziBlu]

98 is the octane for a 1.3l in my opinion, that was why I put that there, not as in, IF you use 98, but rather, 98 is a must.

Royce is not saying you need extra voltage to arc a bigger gap, Im saying that the greater the voltage the bigger the gap can be, Royce says more voltage is not required.

As for the primary fly back, the ignition module will handle a 1.2mm gap.

[royce]

Pigs ass I am not saying more voltage is needed, its Grade 8 science to know that the further through a gas electricity needs to travel the higher voltage is needed

I am saying its the bigger gap that creates the higher voltage, not the fancy coil so go up your gap on your pluga now and if they dont missfire due to the coil not being able to muster enough sparks to jump the plug then a fancy coil will be of no use to you

Its like saying a bigger fuel line will make your car go faster, with no other mods

[SuziBlu]

lol ok, now I understand what your saying, I didn't read it like that and was confused, thought you were saying, no more power required, an I was like, er ??

Sorry.

[xaravitara]

Well I've been calling around today and found that my current coil, as long as it is running fine, will do the job nicely. If I was having coil problems then the upgrade may be the way to go.

Saying that, an upgrade may stuff up my dizzy and ignition system due to the higher voltage. I believe that a coil upgrade has worked wonders for some and caused nightmares for others. After all, the vehicle may not even reach the desired 40,000 volts advertised.

I've read people have upgraded their coils and increased the gap size on the plugs, and I can't see why simply opening the gap to 1.2 wouldn't give better performance with a stock coil. I'm going to take the "if it ain't broke" approach on the coil and see what happens after the tune.

Thanks for your opinions guys, much apprieciated!

[Gwagensteve]

It's my understanding that the factory ignition system on the sierra is no great thing and it's inadvisable to increase coil voltage. Bosch, for instance, don't recommend a high output coil upgrade for the sierra, and that's the reason why.

Whilst it's fair to say that all cars are built to a price, ignition power will generally very well matched to the requirements of the motor, because it's a win-win for a manufacturer - optimium spark performance for the engine equals more performance and economy and lower emissions. Of course, radically changing conditions in the engine will place a different requirement on the ignition system, but that's generally when boost is applied.

How good are your plug wires xaravitara? Plug wires degrade with age. If you still have stock wires, you'd be surprised how the car runs better with new wires.

Steve.

[Highway-Star]

I made some post on outerlimits a year or so ago where I used a scientific relation to show that in spark ignition engines any more than the required spark is pointless. I would search for it and post the link, but it appears someone over there does not like me, and I can no longer view anything