[appsie]

arch is giving you the lift.

length is giving you the flex and a shagged leaf pack that sits flat always works a treat there too.

[alien]

yep - definitely... well, kind of...

a more arched leaf will give more compression than it will droop. so your uptravel will be greater than your downtravel - which in a zuk is kinda backward to what you want, as once you go a larger tyre theres not much room for uptravel! (bump stops, wheel arches and shock placement are an issue).

a flat leaf gives 50/50 up and down travel, only limited by your bumpstops on the up travel and shocks and eventually spring length on down travel.

So, a flat, long leaf is the best for our application. This is why mines SPOA on the lux fronts. the SPOA provides the lift that the leaves no longer give and allows clearance for the up travel.

The only other way to achieve this would be a virtual lift on the front end (given the rear is being tray'd) all the way to the bonnet - but even then theres still the issue of shock placement and finding the right ones.

THENNNNN after all that, in SPUA configuration the extra length of the hilux front leaf up front makes for a pretty bad approach angle.

What im saying is, personally i think leaves that long should be done SPOA and all work along the way checked by an engineer for safety and quality.

[shakes]

I just clicked on this thread thinking it was the build up for the LWB nicknamed "spring onion"

Alien your explanation has explained leafs to me awesomely. in a couple of months I was going to ask a noOb question to explain the basics of how it all worked.

cheers

[just_cruizin]

alien wrote:

a more arched leaf will give more compression than it will droop. so your uptravel will be greater than your downtravel - which in a zuk is kinda backward to what you want, as once you go a larger tyre theres not much room for uptravel! (bump stops, wheel arches and shock placement are an issue).

I disagree, a spring with more arch won't compress more. They are generally a lot stiffer to maintain the height and don't compress much at all. Thus you would get a lot less travel then out of lesser arched springs.

This is the one and only advantage to Spring over in my opinion, you get lift but can run flat springs.

For my build I'll be getting 300mm longer then standard springs. Track bar is a certainity. Rear axle will be 150mm rearwards.

[alien]

^^ true, but if he's chucking a 3" lifted leaf in with load leaf removed it'd still be pretttty soft. But basically thats another good point not to run a lifted leaf in this application (super long).

just_cruisin - if you're moving the rear back 150mm (the added length of the leaf) what are you doing up front? I moved my front forward more than my rear back so that the engine weight (and mine) was more central, as the rear has near no weight in it. My rear is back about 1", as i've not done a chassis extension at the back, just got the rear shackle hanger right on the end of the chassis, then the shackle pokes out from there.

here's a gratuitous image:


and a flex shot:

[just_cruizin]

I'll be full ruf, but mines on a LWB chassis with tube tray.

Everyone is pushing me to go links but I want to this one simple at this stage. Mind you by the time I do anything petrol won't be available, I'll have to wait for the BP oil slick to reach OZ and brew my own.

[royce]

I dont see any link at all between shape of a spring and how stiff it needs to be to hold it, ive had low springs fail in a day and tall springs last years with not a great difference in spring rate

a spring will travel down until you are at teh point where the shackle wont rotate any further towards the diff, regardless of what camber the spring sits at, if yours dont do they you have something stopping it, likewise the rate will effect it compressing, gets hard to work on a sierra as you end up a bit soft

[just_cruizin]

The straighter the peice of steel the easier it is to bend. Yes you can get a 3" spring with a good spring rate but the eyes would be nearly touching eachother in order for it to give a 3" lift under load. Not much point in making a spring you need to load up to install.

[chris_mac]

from memory you can use CJ springs, they are as long as YJ but 50mm wide (as sierra), you might get some old ones from jeepies
lux and YJ or ferroza springs are wider hence more mods.
supposedly with YJ kit you don't need a trackbar, because of the extra strength in wider springs, Suziblue order or was about to do it YJ kit from Rocky Road for his LWB. Maybe ask him.

[alien]

its still a longer spring so will need new mounts, but not perches (unless you're going SPOA).

[lump_a_charcoal]

No SPOA - wanna copy Suzy, she is low and stable.

[chris_mac]

In this case I would think of buying spring under YJ kit from Rocky road. Bolt on. no need to cut anything, all needed hardware Ubolts, spring plates etc. You can by OME YJ springs from ARB localy. They are 2" lifted so compering to standars zook springs you would have 3-4" lift from springs. no need to extend the chasis, wheelbase extended slightly. Anyway it's a point of view from someone who don't have a welder and can't weld:)

[zukmeista]

chris_mac wrote:

In this case I would think of buying spring under YJ kit from Rocky road. Bolt on. no need to cut anything, all needed hardware Ubolts, spring plates etc. You can by OME YJ springs from ARB localy. They are 2" lifted so compering to standars zook springs you would have 3-4" lift from springs. no need to extend the chasis, wheelbase extended slightly. Anyway it's a point of view from someone who don't have a welder and can't weld:)

Exactly why I suggested it in the first place. Minimal fabrication and probably easier to engineer too.

[Fatzook]

zukmeista wrote:

probably easier to engineer too.

I wouldn't say that..... nothing is easy these days.....

[alien]

^^ especially bolt on things... engineers (well mine) like welding, and lots of it, with gussets and lots of them, and fisch plates... he loves those.

[BlueSuzy]

Mr Linc.

Spua:
Sierra springs as Ruf has a bad enough approach angle.
Hilux springs are going to make it mega worse.

If i wanted lux springs:
Flat Hilux springs. Spoa. No BL.

[lump_a_charcoal]

OK maybe Sierra rears up front, hilux fronts in the back? That would work out cheaper, as I have rears already. Would also negate the need to remake a couple of hangers..

Is your approach angle all that bad Tim?

[BlueSuzy]

It is cos my shackles are double size.. Rockclimbing, i always hit them.

If you ran smaller shackles like most on here, it will be betterer.

I used to hit my stock shackles with stock springs and stock tyres. Bending springs is so awesome..not..

[Fatzook]

lump_a_charcoal wrote:

OK maybe Sierra rears up front, hilux fronts in the back?

This is my setup.

[lump_a_charcoal]

Timmay, turn on messenger.

[lump_a_charcoal]

Also, tell me why inverting rear shocks leads to more travel? Is inverting them turning them upside down, or moving the tops inwards?

[alien]

inverting is upside down isnt it?

laying them over is done cos theres no room for shock towers in the rear (you will have room though cos yours is a trayback!).

[lump_a_charcoal]

Yeah that's what I thought, but I couldn't see why you would get more travel.

[alien]

not unless clearances are so tight that the body of the shock was hitting something, and inverting it means it clears the thinner tube? lol but thats still only around 10mm difference.

[5ierra]

Fatzook wrote:

zukmeista wrote:

probably easier to engineer too.

I wouldn't say that..... nothing is easy these days.....

Not true, got my engine and seats done... longest part was putting the plate on... he didnt even start the car. No shit it took him a grand total of about 2min to say yay or nay. haha.

[tanshi]

our engineer is awesome though

[lump_a_charcoal]

Hey guys, debate your engineers opinions elsewhere, I am trying to get some info here.

[tanshi]

lump_a_charcoal wrote:

Yeah that's what I thought, but I couldn't see why you would get more travel.

Laying them over or inboarding, allows you to get more shock length in, therefore allowing for more travel

[lump_a_charcoal]

Yeah, but that isn't inverting them.

[tanshi]

I think when people some people say inverting, they mean inboarding.