[Highway-Star]

Before you get reply trigger happy, I don't want to hear "just take it off, it makes no difference"

So I am mucking around with an LJ81 to be built as a "road car". It will still see some 4wding, but nothing hard, probably beach type work mainly. Anyway, the vehicle never came with any swaybars at all; but I was offered a pair of Sierra swaybars a week or 2 back (by pair, I mean a front NT one, and a rear NT one).

At first I was resistant to the idea of fitting them, but I can see some sense in it, as it will be primarily a road car. I am now thinking I should be able to achieve a good roll stiffness, but softer spring rate, which could in turn allow me to make the car more comfortable. Sound plausible? or are the rollbars likely to cause extra jarring? Some text says this is can occur, and I do recall my Sierra becoming slightly more comfortable with the swaybar removed.

Next, is understeer, and oversteer. I've never driven an LJ81 on road before (or any LWB Suzuki), but my Sierra and LJ80 both feel like they oversteer predominantly (The Sierra particularly, the LJ80 on occasions feels more prone to wanting to push staright forward). So apparently a front swaybar will increase the likelyhood of understeer (would this explain why most Sierras had only a front one?), and a rear swaybar increase oversteer? Would putting a factory Sierra swaybar on both ends likely neutralise each others effect? Would it be wiser to maybe just use one? and at which end of the vehicle?

Not sure I want to go ahead with doing this yet, I haven't grabbed them off the person who offered them to me. I'm aware there are tonnes of other variables that could effect the vehicle behaviour, but any input appreciated

[alien]

just take it off, it makes no difference. lol

seriously though when i took my swaybar off mine (2" lift and 215/75s) i got more understeer followed by awesome oversteer (ie: it didnt want to turn at all then decided to compensate) by comparison to having it on (which was constant oversteer).

personally, i think theyre a waste of time and were fitted due to the legal action from the USA banning them from import after failing a rigged lane change test (see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6_1o_Fx ... re=related and its following vids).

[Zook_Fan]

i personally would love to try a rear sway bar. I think that it would make to front flex harder and it would stop the major body roll i get in the back. I can't comment on the LJ81 as I have never driven one either, but i think soft packs with swaybars for onroad may be a good combination.

[MrRocky]

handles better with swaybar, also helps minimizing the massive lean my car is prone to getting.

[Fatzook]

Swaybars are cool!

I'm bolting my front one back onto the ute this week. Then I'm fitting a rear one

Fuckin thing doesn't flex anyway, so I may aswell get some onroad manners back

[Highway-Star]

Yeah, I've seen the video before.


My Sierra gets bad lean, but the LJ doesn't, I think I can blame the extended shackles and extra weight for that. Still a Suzuki 4wd that goes around corners more like a go kart has some appeal

[96coily]

Buy a coily, problem solved

[Fatzook]

96coily wrote:

Buy a coily, problem solved

My arse!!

Some of the worst zooks i've driven have been coilys

[CairnsZook]

MrRocky wrote:

handles better with swaybar, also helps minimizing the massive lean my car is prone to getting.

Exactly.


Flex is overrated...

[ellis]

coily rock!!

[96coily]

Fatzook wrote:

96coily wrote:

Buy a coily, problem solved

My arse!!

Some of the worst zooks i've driven have been coilys

Sure it wasn't just your driving
I don't seem to have a problem

[Fatzook]

96coily wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

96coily wrote:

Buy a coily, problem solved

My arse!!

Some of the worst zooks i've driven have been coilys

Sure it wasn't just your driving
I don't seem to have a problem

Perhaps you have no point of reference

[steak_knife]

I have some sway bar's you can have Mr Star!!!

[royce]

I would look for a smaller bar for the rear, too stiff in the back can make for some strange handling, I dont think the more oversteer understeer thing is relevent here cause generally its caused by lower grip levels after that wheel lifts off the ground

[Highway-Star]

royce wrote:

I would look for a smaller bar for the rear, too stiff in the back can make for some strange handling, I dont think the more oversteer understeer thing is relevent here cause generally its caused by lower grip levels after that wheel lifts off the ground

Cheers, I haven't actually seen a factory rear swaybar yet, so don't know how stiff they are. Fair enough on the lifting wheels thing. Hoping I won't end up with a car doing that.


Yep Mr Knife, I might being paying you a visit again soon to steel more parts

[steak_knife]

Highway-Star wrote:

Yep Mr Knife, I might being paying you a visit again soon to steel more parts

Ok!!!!

[96coily]

Fatzook wrote:

96coily wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

96coily wrote:

Buy a coily, problem solved

My arse!!

Some of the worst zooks i've driven have been coilys

Sure it wasn't just your driving
I don't seem to have a problem

Perhaps you have no point of reference

The point of reference is in the subject title a"Road Car" with limited offroad mainly beach work
If you can get past your prejudice, I think you'll find even a stock coily ticks all the boxes, probably a Vitara even more

[Highway-Star]

96coily wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

96coily wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

96coily wrote:

Buy a coily, problem solved

My arse!!

Some of the worst zooks i've driven have been coilys

Sure it wasn't just your driving
I don't seem to have a problem

Perhaps you have no point of reference

The point of reference is in the subject title a"Road Car" with limited offroad mainly beach work
If you can get past your prejudice, I think you'll find even a stock coily ticks all the boxes, probably a Vitara even more

I've never driven a coily or a Vitara, only been a passenger in Vits and GV's. Yes the Vit line are vastly more suitable for road use; however they don't tick all the boxes I require for the project. The LJ allows me to better work with the QLD modification laws to build what I want as an end result; and this was my original motivation. Since then I have also bought an LJ80 and wheeled it and come to the realisation that there are many other great things about LJ's that later model Suzukis do not have (for one I now believe a Sierra is too big). I appreciate your input, but I have no interest in a coil sprung Suzuki.

[96coily]

OK, nice reply
Cheers

[Fatzook]

96coily wrote:

If you can get past your prejudice, I think you'll find even a stock coily ticks all the boxes, probably a Vitara even more :oops:

HAHAHAHA

Mate I've owned more coily sierras than you have, so I DO have a point of reference!! Also owned long and short wheelbase leaf sierras, and coilover'd sierras. I also own a vitara, so I have experienced the full line up (with exception of an LJ )

And I think you'll find that the coil sierra has a seriously floored suspension design, that doesn't translate to better handling or flex when compared to a leafy. They are marginally more comfortable than a stock leafy, but with a few small, cheap mods, the leafy can be brought into line.

Coily's are a good thing, but the modification VS $$$$ spent barrier is a little more limiting than its leaf sprung counterpart.

Anyway this aint a debate on why leafys are shit loads better than coilys, so back to the OP question

I think you should fit the swaybars. Although I am not sure that the extended shackles would contribute to body roll that much, they may allow for some lateral movement when cornering. A swaybar probably won't fix this, but it will reduce the effects of understeer/oversteer as a result of shifting weight. Chuck them on and see how it goes.

As an aside, I always found that having the front swaybar about 30% heavier made for a well balanced RWD vehicle.

[96coily]

"Mate I've owned more coily sierras than you have"

just how many coilys have I owned Einstein ?

Two types of people in the world
Those that are still learning (me)
and those that already bloody know everything

[Highway-Star]

Fatzook wrote:

I think you should fit the swaybars. Although I am not sure that the extended shackles would contribute to body roll that much, they may allow for some lateral movement when cornering. A swaybar probably won't fix this, but it will reduce the effects of understeer/oversteer as a result of shifting weight. Chuck them on and see how it goes.

As an aside, I always found that having the front swaybar about 30% heavier made for a well balanced RWD vehicle.

Not terribly concerned about the Sierra right now. The LJ81 won't be getting extended shackles anyway
So about 30% heavier swaybar in the front. Being a ute, and considering its going to have stiffer rear than front springs, would erring on the higher side of that be sensible?

[Fatzook]

Highway-Star wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

I think you should fit the swaybars. Although I am not sure that the extended shackles would contribute to body roll that much, they may allow for some lateral movement when cornering. A swaybar probably won't fix this, but it will reduce the effects of understeer/oversteer as a result of shifting weight. Chuck them on and see how it goes.

As an aside, I always found that having the front swaybar about 30% heavier made for a well balanced RWD vehicle.

Not terribly concerned about the Sierra right now. The LJ81 won't be getting extended shackles anyway
So about 30% heavier swaybar in the front. Being a ute, and considering its going to have stiffer rear than front springs, would erring on the higher side of that be sensible?

I guess that depends if you are using it as a ute or not

Mine gets loaded up all the time, so I have got stiff rear springs and shocks to help it carry the weight.

If you rarely have weight on the back you could even go 50% in the rear. The more weight you are trying to arrest, the stiffer the bar should be. Although this is just a guide based on my exteriences.

My XR6T ute was lousy through corners (bought it new), so I fitted an adjustable front swaybar, and a solid rear swaybar. Unladen was its normal state, so I set up the swaybars that way. The front was about 40%stiffer than the rear.

Will the LJ81 be used on road much?

[alien]

i wonder, could you fit a dampened swaybar??? it'd require some thought, but if you could pull it off you'd have the best of both worlds....

[Highway-Star]

Fatzook wrote:

Highway-Star wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

I think you should fit the swaybars. Although I am not sure that the extended shackles would contribute to body roll that much, they may allow for some lateral movement when cornering. A swaybar probably won't fix this, but it will reduce the effects of understeer/oversteer as a result of shifting weight. Chuck them on and see how it goes.

As an aside, I always found that having the front swaybar about 30% heavier made for a well balanced RWD vehicle.

Not terribly concerned about the Sierra right now. The LJ81 won't be getting extended shackles anyway
So about 30% heavier swaybar in the front. Being a ute, and considering its going to have stiffer rear than front springs, would erring on the higher side of that be sensible?

I guess that depends if you are using it as a ute or not

Mine gets loaded up all the time, so I have got stiff rear springs and shocks to help it carry the weight.

If you rarely have weight on the back you could even go 50% in the rear. The more weight you are trying to arrest, the stiffer the bar should be. Although this is just a guide based on my exteriences.

My XR6T ute was lousy through corners (bought it new), so I fitted an adjustable front swaybar, and a solid rear swaybar. Unladen was its normal state, so I set up the swaybars that way. The front was about 40%stiffer than the rear.

Will the LJ81 be used on road much?

Will become my primary road car. So yes, lots . Probably wont get used to carry allot of load too often, but I'm not going to do rear suspension designed to be flexy; I want to be able to load it up with camping gear or some other assorted junk and not have it on the rear bumpstops.

That said I am going to be having a 70 odd litre SS water tank under the tray, a much larger than factory fuel tank (yet to be sussed). I am also hoping on moving the battery to under the tray. So it won't be as light in the arse end as factory.

Guess I also have to have enough spring leaves to stop it axle wrapping......considering M16 and M18 Liana motors for the power plant

[atari4x4]

alien wrote:

i wonder, could you fit a dampened swaybar??? it'd require some thought, but if you could pull it off you'd have the best of both worlds....

sort of similar to the KDSS system on the new toyota's?

[Highway-Star]

alien wrote:

i wonder, could you fit a dampened swaybar??? it'd require some thought, but if you could pull it off you'd have the best of both worlds....

Tad lost here
The shock absorbers still damp the suspension system. Why would the swaybar needs its own damper?



That stuff the Toyotas do is too complex. I'd incorporate some type of swaybar disconnect into the vehicle if I felt it necessary. But it would be a case of get out and disconnect it.

[alien]

what i meant was exactly what you're thinking... lol

if you could dampen a sway bar on quick turns etc it'd work as normal, but on a big long bend or flexing offroad (crawling) it'd articulate... i suppose it could be done if you used massive rubber bushes, but there'd have to be a nicer way =P

Another option is what i've done with my zuk - soft leaves and stiff shocks, then an antiwrap setup... means cornering quickly is very precise but a big long bend gives bodyroll... to the point on dry roads my suspension is tight enough to slide out the rear if i flick the steering wheel and hit the throttle, as well as going easy and keeping a maccas coke in my lap without spilling =P

[crazynic]

alien wrote:

i wonder, could you fit a dampened swaybar??? it'd require some thought, but if you could pull it off you'd have the best of both worlds....

I think you mean damped....

You could just get a wet rag and "dampen" a sway bar but it would achieve nothing.

Shocks don't "dampen" oscillations they damp them

[alien]

lol damped... fine... still, you knew what i meant and the idea has merit if it could be made to work =)